But not per usual.
I was/am watching AotC's right now, and between that and some recent disscussions on the board, I've thought of a few things in relation to the Force and how Jedi work.
Anakin; well he is the Choosen One. The Force flows through him in masses quantities. As a mere Padawan in AotC's, he can use the Force in some impressive ways, TK and the like. Though even still, when he confronts Dooku, he is defeated.
Obi Wan; though not as powerful in the Force as Anakin, he does some very impressive things in his lifetime. Defeats a Sith Lord, fights another to a stand still. Engages Grevious and wins. How he does this is to 'emerge' himself completely in the Force and allow it to fight for him. He is everything and knows everything and there fore can react or preact to it.
So where am I going with this? Well, if Anakin is the Choosen One with all the power of the Force channeling though him, how the hell does Obi (or Dooku in AotC's for that matter) fight him off if not defeat him?
The difference, 'submergence in the Force'. In one of the 'Flash v Jedi' threads or other superhuman threads, I think DW points this out. Anakin has all the Force he could possibly use at his figer tips. He can use it and puts it to use many times. Levitation, jumping, force walls, ect....
Obi on the other hand, seems to have fully bought into the Jedi training and can litterly turn himself over to the Force at anytime. In AotC's, he accepts his own death by turning himself over to the Force. He totally submerges himself in the Force on the IH and defeats the Maganguards and Grevious and later on Utapua, he does it again.
He's not more powerful than Anakin, not by a long shot, but Anakin does not 'submit' himself to the will of the Force. He's spoiled in that there is ample Force flowing through him at all times for his use. Obi, on the other hand, is so well trained, that he can let go of himself and let the Force do as it wills against him.
Viewed in this way, and in the larger structure of the prophecy and the 'balance of the Force' is it a wonder that Obi can fight off a more powerful foe than his 'raw Force power' would let him? Anakin 'forces' (no pun intended) his way through fights with raw power. I don't think he ever lets himself be 'taken over by the Force' the way Obi can do 'easily' by RotS.
Wouldn't this also be the basic philosophical difference between Jedi and Sith? Jedi are suppose to surrender themselves to the Force, and by extension accept what the Force gives them. (this could be the root of the 'no attachment' clause and other 'no you can't' rules). While the Sith do not wish to 'surrender' themselves to the Force, rather use the raw power of it to accomplish things they want, instead of allowing the Force to act through them.
Thoughts? Comments?
Obi v Anakin
Moderator: Vympel
Obi v Anakin
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
It would certainly explain why Yoda compells Anakin to let go of his love for Padme:
If it is true that for a Jedi to maintain his goodness and not be tempted by the darkside he has to submit to the will of the force he will be unable to do that if he wants to somehow change the will of the force (whether conciously or unconciously) to not have himself or another die.
If it is true that for a Jedi to maintain his goodness and not be tempted by the darkside he has to submit to the will of the force he will be unable to do that if he wants to somehow change the will of the force (whether conciously or unconciously) to not have himself or another die.
Self declared winner of The Posedown Thread
EBC - "What? What?" "Tally Ho!" Division
I wrote this:The British Avengers fanfiction
"Yeah, funny how that works - you giving hungry people food they vote for you. You give homeless people shelter they vote for you. You give the unemployed a job they vote for you.
Maybe if the conservative ideology put a roof overhead, food on the table, and employed the downtrodden the poor folk would be all for it, too". - Broomstick
EBC - "What? What?" "Tally Ho!" Division
I wrote this:The British Avengers fanfiction
"Yeah, funny how that works - you giving hungry people food they vote for you. You give homeless people shelter they vote for you. You give the unemployed a job they vote for you.
Maybe if the conservative ideology put a roof overhead, food on the table, and employed the downtrodden the poor folk would be all for it, too". - Broomstick
Would this explain the 'evolution' of power between Darth Sidious and the Jedi? The Sith were originally Jedi anyway, way back in the day. I have to believe that a lot of baggage would still be in their training, even to Sidious, from the Order.The Guid wrote:It would certainly explain why Yoda compells Anakin to let go of his love for Padme:
If it is true that for a Jedi to maintain his goodness and not be tempted by the darkside he has to submit to the will of the force he will be unable to do that if he wants to somehow change the will of the force (whether conciously or unconciously) to not have himself or another die.
Does Sidious represent the 'first Sith' to be truely independent from any Jedi training. No 'submit' in his training or ways?
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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2000AD
- Emperor's Hand
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So in pro-wrestling terms, Anakin is like The Big Show (7ft 2, 500 pounds) who has lots of strrength and power, and relies on those, while Obi Wan is more like Kurt Angle or Chris Benoit (ie. not as big, but rely more on technical ability). Anakin can use his power against most opponents, but against someone who knows how to counter than he flounders a bit.
Ph34r teh eyebrow!!11!Writers Guild Sluggite Pawn of Chaos WYGIWYGAINGW so now i have to put ACPATHNTDWATGODW in my sig EBC-Honorary Geordie
Hammerman! Hammer!
Hammerman! Hammer!
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Hedgehog's Roommate
- Padawan Learner
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My impresion of the fight was that Anakin had the edge in raw strength, while Obi-Wan was keeping his cool and planning ahead. Many times Obi managed to get the upperhand. Only to lose it to Anakin when Ani turned it to a strength contest. Perfect example is the TK scene. They keep going back and forth until this, and while Obi managed to knock Ani back Ani recovers faster. So fast that Obi has to scramble to keep from getting sliced in half.
No war was ever won by dying for your country, but by making the other poor sumbitch die for his. - Gen. George A. Patton
The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of wars. -Gen. Douglas MacArthur
The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of wars. -Gen. Douglas MacArthur
Meh, I'm old school, and thus haven't watched wresteling in many moons, but if pressed, I'd put it like 'Ultimate Warrior' versus 'Mr. Perfect'.2000AD wrote:So in pro-wrestling terms, Anakin is like The Big Show (7ft 2, 500 pounds) who has lots of strrength and power, and relies on those, while Obi Wan is more like Kurt Angle or Chris Benoit (ie. not as big, but rely more on technical ability). Anakin can use his power against most opponents, but against someone who knows how to counter than he flounders a bit.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Deathstalker
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1523
- Joined: 2004-01-20 02:22am
I consider the adage "youth and skill is no match for old age and treachery" . Ani had the raw power, but rarely immersed himself fully in it. I think he is capable of it when he isn't thinking about it, like when he was podracing, if this makes sense. Obi-wan is able to lose himself in the force and become the Force's instrument. I think he was not quite in there when fighting Sid in AOTC and ROTS, but when he went off alone, letting go of having to watch over Ani, Obi-wan is able to truly lose himself in the Force.
