Dovin basal effects on beaming

Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader · Post by **Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader** » 2002-12-02 09:51pm

The Yuuzhan Vong use a creature called a dovin basal to project 'black holes' to shield their ships from turbolasers, proton torps, etc. i was wondering, would dovin basal have any effect on transporters?

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-12-02 09:53pm

Yes, transporters don't work in high EM radation zones, weird elements, storms, less than ideal situations, ect....and a black hole is a perfect example and probally would fail!!!!!!!

Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader · Post by **Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader** » 2002-12-02 09:55pm

Mike_6002 wrote:Yes, transporters don't work in high EM radation zones, weird elements, storms, less than ideal situations, ect....and a black hole is a perfect example and probally would fail!!!!!!!

Hmmm..... then the Feddies only chance at winning is gone if they were to fight the Vong. As if they had one in the first place.

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-12-02 09:57pm

Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader wrote:
Mike_6002 wrote:Yes, transporters don't work in high EM radation zones, weird elements, storms, less than ideal situations, ect....and a black hole is a perfect example and probally would fail!!!!!!!
Hmmm..... then the Feddies only chance at winning is gone if they were to fight the Vong. As if they had one in the first place.

The Feds are Dead, and they will get an extra painful death, for defiling there own life force (AKA Using transporters)

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-12-02 10:01pm

Given that thick stone blocks transporter locks and beaming...who knows what a Black Hole will do...though I'm sure they'll find a crack in the event horizon.

Mike_6002 · Post by **Mike_6002** » 2002-12-02 10:02pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Given that thick stone blocks transporter locks and beaming...who knows what a Black Hole will do...though I'm sure they'll find a crack in the event horizon.

Yeah like that going to happen again

Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader · Post by **Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader** » 2002-12-03 08:15am

Mike_6002 wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Given that thick stone blocks transporter locks and beaming...who knows what a Black Hole will do...though I'm sure they'll find a crack in the event horizon.
Yeah like that going to happen again

Given Trek's ability to slaughter common sense, it most likely will.
Even the Vong aren't immune.
Wait, they didn't have any common sense in the forst place!

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-12-03 08:17am

Dovin basals would fuck transporters up.

Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader · Post by **Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader** » 2002-12-03 08:32am

One thing I don't understand is how dovinbasals prevent themselves from being ripped apart by the immense gravity. A black hole, as any simple science book will tell you, pulls in all directions. The dovin basals should be ripped apar by there own gravity.
And how the hell do they creat black holes?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-12-03 08:49am

One thing I don't understand is how dovinbasals prevent themselves from being ripped apart by the immense gravity. A black hole, as any simple science book will tell you, pulls in all directions. The dovin basals should be ripped apar by there own gravity.
And how the hell do they creat black holes?

It DOES pull in all directions however they are SMALL blackholes, IE baseball and pinhead sized, you get sucked in just the same but it does not have increably powerful gravity farther than about five feet

How they are acutal generatated is pure bullshit organic tecnobabble but thats another story

Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader · Post by **Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader** » 2002-12-03 08:56am

Mr Bean wrote:
One thing I don't understand is how dovinbasals prevent themselves from being ripped apart by the immense gravity. A black hole, as any simple science book will tell you, pulls in all directions. The dovin basals should be ripped apar by there own gravity.
And how the hell do they creat black holes?
It DOES pull in all directions however they are SMALL blackholes, IE baseball and pinhead sized, you get sucked in just the same but it does not have increably powerful gravity farther than about five feet

How they are acutal generatated is pure bullshit organic tecnobabble but thats another story

God, I hate that techobabble bullshit. Why couldn't the Vong just have superstrong armor?
Don't tell me SW Eu is turning into Trek.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-12-03 10:19am

That is a very disturbing trend which is coming true...

The "Planet of the Week" Syndrome is very much in evidence.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-03 10:28am

As bean pointed out Dovin Basal coverage isnt total.

We don't know who strong the gravity has to be to block a transporters (or even if its possible).

Most of the points everyone has cited are tired old examples of SENSORS being blocked and preventing beam up - beam down (or out) doesnt have this limitation.

And finally - the Vong would detect transporters how? Im at the moment reading SbS and the Dovin Basal cant catch shadow bombs which are basical proton torps that are thrown instead of making a big glowing trail - these weapons beat the Vong every time because the crew in charge of the Dovin Basal cant target what they cant see - you cant see transporters so...... (plus a crew would have bad reactions compared to torps being launched into warp from an STL target (it is possible but I dont know what modification it would take for ships to be able to do so)

Even if they were to use none visual sensors (which according to SbS they cant but its possible they adapt in later books) those would be gravity based, would a transporter beam exert a gravity signature?

PS The feds have more ways than the transporter to fire back (cloaked torps? since shadow bombs do so well this make take us onto if cloaks hide drive emissions which I would think yes they do but to circumvent that discussion the Feds can simply use them as projectile weapons (repulsor beam throws torps etc) phaser which may of may not be affected by gravity - if not great Vong are toast, if so they just angle the beam so the dovin basal bends the beam to hit the ship instead of swallow it (shouldnt take more than a computer program to adjust targetting).
Then we have nano-weapons and other such technobabble.

The Vong are a joke - SbS shows just how sad they really are with 3 Jedi X wings taking out 10 ships between them you have to wonder what would have happened if the NR had actually put up a fight instead of rolling over.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-03 10:36am

TheDarkling wrote:As bean pointed out Dovin Basal coverage isnt total.

It's nowhere near total.

We don't know who strong the gravity has to be to block a transporters (or even if its possible).

True, but we do know that ST systems are affected adversely by nearby black holes (what a surprise), and that black holes pump out interference that does affect SF transporters. The question, then, is how MUCH interference is pumped out by the "miniature black holes" and whether or not that is sufficient to affect SF transporters. My best guess is that it's not.

And finally - the Vong would detect transporters how? Im at the moment reading SbS and the Dovin Basal cant catch shadow bombs which are basical proton torps that are thrown instead of making a big glowing trail - these weapons beat the Vong every time because the crew in charge of the Dovin Basal cant target what they cant see - you cant see transporters so...... (plus a crew would have bad reactions compared to torps being launched into warp from an STL target (it is possible but I dont know what modification it would take for ships to be able to do so)

Excellent question. I assumed that the thread was referring to what would happen if SF transporters tried to operate on a starship that already had its black hole defense up, but if it indeed is talking about blocking all transporters then I don't see how the YV can hope to respond.

Even if they were to use none visual sensors (which according to SbS they cant but its possible they adapt in later books) those would be gravity based, would a transporter beam exert a gravity signature?

Probably not.

PS The feds have more ways than the transporter to fire back (cloaked torps? since shadow bombs do so well this make take us onto if cloaks hide drive emissions which I would think yes they do but to circumvent that discussion the Feds can simply use them as projectile weapons (repulsor beam throws torps etc) phaser which may of may not be affected by gravity - if not great Vong are toast, if so they just angle the beam so the dovin basal bends the beam to hit the ship instead of swallow it (shouldnt take more than a computer program to adjust targetting).
Then we have nano-weapons and other such technobabble.

Darkling, right now I'd rather defer this debate for later. After I'm done with DarkStar then we'll see about this long-standing debate between the two of us. Until then, good luck with your projects.

The Vong are a joke - SbS shows just how sad they really are with 3 Jedi X wings taking out 10 ships between them you have to wonder what would have happened if the NR had actually put up a fight instead of rolling over.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-03 10:58am

MOO: Well it seems we more or less agree (dont worry I have a heart attack centre at the end of my street) so there isnt much to say except Im happy to wait in line until after your Darkstar war (part 2).

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-03 05:28pm

TheDarkling wrote:MOO: Well it seems we more or less agree (dont worry I have a heart attack centre at the end of my street) so there isnt much to say except Im happy to wait in line until after your Darkstar war (part 2).

It will likely be some time in late January that I get the thing up. I did not realize how much bullshit there was on his site, and he'll inevitably respond to my first rebuttal, regardless of what I do. I figure that one or two additional rounds will be adequate to destroy his points, so I think I'll stop responding to them, after that. By then everyone will already either be convinced that Anderson is totally wacked, or that he's right, and additional rounds will not change anybody's mind. I merely hope to prevent people from invoking Anderson's site during debates, or saying that Anderson is ST's Mike Wong, or similar statements. Talk to you, then.

Sriad · Post by **Sriad** » 2002-12-04 02:09am

Mr Bean wrote:
One thing I don't understand is how dovinbasals prevent themselves from being ripped apart by the immense gravity. A black hole, as any simple science book will tell you, pulls in all directions. The dovin basals should be ripped apar by there own gravity.
And how the hell do they creat black holes?
It DOES pull in all directions however they are SMALL blackholes, IE baseball and pinhead sized, you get sucked in just the same but it does not have increably powerful gravity farther than about five feet

How they are acutal generatated is pure bullshit organic tecnobabble but thats another story

Actually, a black hole with an event horizon the size of a baseball would have a mass roughly equal to 3 Earth.(to get Schwartzchild radius use this equation: Radius=2[Gravitational Constant*Mass/C^2]) In fact, an Earth mass BH would be about one cm across, assuming I didn't drop any zeroes. I don't know how close to their ship they had it, but at a distance of 50km the acceleration (for an Earth mass BH) would be about 256,000 m/s^2. Tidal force would be a still piddly one meter per second per meter closer to the black hole though, so it could happen.

OTOH, a black hole the size of a golf ball wouldn't offer much shielding at a distance of 50km, and I don't know how close they actually were to the BH. If they were much nearer than that, tidal forces would start getting nasty. If they have the tech to make the BHs, then it isn't a very big leap of faith to say they have inertial dampeners.

I'm taking a course on black holes right now as it happens, here's the professor's homepage on the subject if you want to read up: http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schw.shtml

Sriad · Post by **Sriad** » 2002-12-04 02:12am

Doh, where's the edit button? That sentance should read "But on the other other hand if they have the tech to make the BHs, then it isn't a very big leap of faith to say they have inertial dampeners."