Racist Rantings in China/Japan Over Geisha Movie

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2005-12-01 12:57pm

Posted on Thu, Dec. 01, 2005

Chinese puzzle: Why are they the stars of a geisha movie?

Japanese and Chinese alike are upset about the casting of Hollywood's new "Memoirs of a Geisha."

By Tim Johnson and Emi Doi

Knight Ridder News Service

BEIJING - China and Japan, which are at each other's throats over any number of issues, finally seem to agree on one thing: Hollywood's latest release is a cultural dud.

The movie Memoirs of a Geisha, which had its world premiere in Tokyo on Tuesday, has triggered consternation in Japan because none of the three lead actresses is Japanese; two are Chinese and another is an ethnic Chinese from Malaysia.

Citizens polled about the matter in Tokyo questioned why Hollywood chose Chinese actresses to portray geishas, quintessentially Japanese women trained in traditional arts of singing, dancing, and accompanying wealthy men.

If there's dismay in Japan, there's outrage in China, but for a different reason: Many Chinese are beside themselves that the film's star, Zhang Ziyi, China's best-known actress, is shown in the movie as having sexual relations with a Japanese man.

"She deserves to be chopped into a thousand bits," said one Internet user, one of more than 1,000 people who posted on the subject at the Tianji (Sky's Edge) Web portal.

"Zhang is a shameless prostitute," another posting said. "She should be deprived of Chinese citizenship."

Relations between China and Japan, the two powerhouses of East Asia, are at a low ebb. Despite deepening economic ties with Japan, China still harbors bitter feelings toward Japan dating to the period before and during World War II, when Japan invaded large parts of China and dealt brutally with the Chinese people. Many Chinese, censored from voicing their views of their own authoritarian government, express anger whenever they perceive any sign of national weakness before Japan.

The film, which will open Dec. 16 in Philadelphia, was directed by Rob Marshall, who is known for the 2002 Oscar-winning movie Chicago. In addition to Zhang Ziyi, the movie stars Japanese actor Ken Watanabe (The Last Samurai), Chinese actress Gong Li, and Malaysian martial-arts star Michelle Yeoh, an ethnic Chinese who plays the mentor to the movie's protagonist.

"It's a bit awkward that the main character, Sayuri, isn't played by a Japanese actress when the movie primarily focuses on Japanese culture," a woman who identified herself only as Kai told Japan Today Online.

"I think Hollywood people don't care whether they [the actresses] are Japanese or Chinese," said Chiaki Miyazaki, 46, a Kyoto native who is a music producer. "When I was in the United States, American people thought Japanese, Chinese and Korean are all the same."

One of China's best-known film directors, Chen Kaige, who did the 1993 Farewell, My Concubine, questioned in a speech on Nov. 9 why Japanese actresses weren't found for the roles.

"I just don't understand why," Chen said. "Geisha is a centuries-old Japanese tradition and cannot possibly be portrayed by Chinese actresses. The geisha have a sophisticated way of walking, holding a fan, smiling, and looking at people."

Many modern Japanese women hardly know how to wear a kimono or walk in traditional wooden sandals, said Tsukiko Doi, a restaurant owner in Kyoto.

"Maybe they can't sit on their heels with their back straight and knees together," Doi said. "Yet still they have a sense of being Japanese."

The release of the movie in China has been postponed to at least Feb. 10 because censors are haggling with producers about whether a sex scene can be cut in length, China Radio International reported this week.

Some of the publicity about Memoirs of a Geisha, which is based on a novel of the same name by Arthur Golden that spent two years on the New York Times best-seller list, appeared to be the result of mischief-makers in China, who distributed fake pictures of Zhang and Watanabe in a nude scene from the movie. The doctored photos are on Chinese Web sites.

So happy together...

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-12-01 01:05pm

"I just don't understand why," Chen said. "Geisha is a centuries-old Japanese tradition and cannot possibly be portrayed by Chinese actresses. The geisha have a sophisticated way of walking, holding a fan, smiling, and looking at people."

Man, I wonder if whoever said that has any idea how racist that sounds.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-12-01 01:13pm

Yellow people being racist to other yellow people is A-OK it would seem. It's only racism if some white guy disses a black guy, or vice versa.

Prozac the Robert · Post by **Prozac the Robert** » 2005-12-01 01:26pm

Part of it sounds like the mutterings you get here over having an American play some English character. And part of it is utterly racist.

Eris · Post by **Eris** » 2005-12-01 01:26pm

Maybe this would be culture-ism then? Or just a bunch of elitist bastards going at it, 'cause really, there's no little unjustified hate being thrown around here. Death threats, that whole statement about Chinese women not being able to walk as well as Japanese women due to their lack of historical perspective (or whatever)... You'd think the Japanese would be more grateful to the nation they stole their writing system from.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-12-01 01:39pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Yellow people being racist to other yellow people is A-OK it would seem. It's only racism if some white guy disses a black guy, or vice versa.

A black guy dissing a white guy is "reverse racism". Because, as we all know, racism only applies to the victimization of black people.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-12-01 01:42pm

Durandal wrote:
A black guy dissing a white guy is "reverse racism". Because, as we all know, racism only applies to the victimization of black people.

Quite. I guess I should've factored that in too.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2005-12-01 02:20pm

You know what IS racist about this movie? The fact that Hollywood has such a limited number of asian actors that they don't have any choice but to put them all in the same movie. Hell, can anyone think of a leading Japanese actor besides Ken Watanabe? Let's face it, Hollywood doesn't like asian actors at all; think about how many black actors there are in Hollywood and you'll see what I mean.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-12-01 02:30pm

Hollywood is a dead end if you're looking for originality and diversity.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2005-12-01 02:31pm

The Kernel wrote:You know what IS racist about this movie? The fact that Hollywood has such a limited number of asian actors that they don't have any choice but to put them all in the same movie. Hell, can anyone think of a leading Japanese actor besides Ken Watanabe? Let's face it, Hollywood doesn't like asian actors at all; think about how many black actors there are in Hollywood and you'll see what I mean.

Oh come on, Hollywood loved Charlie Chan*

*For the sarcasm impaired, I'm perfectly aware that the actors that played him were not even Asian, much less Chinese.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-12-01 02:33pm

The Kernel wrote:You know what IS racist about this movie? The fact that Hollywood has such a limited number of asian actors that they don't have any choice but to put them all in the same movie. Hell, can anyone think of a leading Japanese actor besides Ken Watanabe? Let's face it, Hollywood doesn't like asian actors at all; think about how many black actors there are in Hollywood and you'll see what I mean.

That's nothing new. The Last Samurai pretty much confirmed how much respect Hollywood has for Asian actors and storytelling.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-12-01 02:35pm

Anyone who knows China and Japan will know how much they hate each other. That said, Kernel makes a good point; Asians are almost unknown in Hollywood, so a tiny number of Asian men and women reappear in any film or TV show where someone of that ethnicity is required.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-12-01 02:36pm

Darth Wong wrote:Anyone who knows China and Japan will know how much they hate each other. That said, Kernel makes a good point; Asians are almost unknown in Hollywood, so a tiny number of Asian men and women reappear in any film or TV show where someone of that ethnicity is required.

Or they simply rewrite the role so that Tom Cruise can fill it.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2005-12-01 02:38pm

Nobody in Asia likes the Japanese, except Taiwan, because they all have reasons to absolutely hate the Japanese. This is, in many cases, a mutual form of hatred.

None of this is surprising--there is still a sizeable minority of cracked pots in Japan, including one guy who seriously has proposed remilitarizing and invading China on the grounds that the people would regard the Japanese as their saviours from the communist party. Conversely, the main problem most patriotic Chinese have with the American use of the Atomic Bomb on Japan was that we stopped with only two and didn't drop mustard gas on the survivors.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2005-12-01 02:39pm

Durandal wrote:
The Kernel wrote:You know what IS racist about this movie? The fact that Hollywood has such a limited number of asian actors that they don't have any choice but to put them all in the same movie. Hell, can anyone think of a leading Japanese actor besides Ken Watanabe? Let's face it, Hollywood doesn't like asian actors at all; think about how many black actors there are in Hollywood and you'll see what I mean.
That's nothing new. The Last Samurai pretty much confirmed how much respect Hollywood has for Asian actors and storytelling.

The joke was on them in that movie since Ken Watanabe routinely stole scenes from their wonder boy Tom Cruise. He carried the fucking movie which is why he (accidentally) became a noteable actor in Hollywood.

And for those that think that the only reason that Japanese actors aren't in Hollywood is because the Japanese film industry isn't very developed, I'd remind people that Akira Kurosawa made some of the best movies in the history of film, and he produced several noteable actors who never went anywhere in Hollywood (most noteabley the amazing Takashi Shimura) yet nobody in Hollywood take the Japanese film industry seriously. Hell the only reason that they pay attention to Hong Kong's film industry is because it has a cult following over here in spite of them ignoring it.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2005-12-01 02:42pm

Darth Wong wrote:Anyone who knows China and Japan will know how much they hate each other. That said, Kernel makes a good point; Asians are almost unknown in Hollywood, so a tiny number of Asian men and women reappear in any film or TV show where someone of that ethnicity is required.

True, and it works in the West because to a large number of Westerners, all Asians do look alike to a degree, so no suspension of disbelief is required to make the audience think that Zhang Ziyi is a Japanese Geisha.

Obviously it works somewhat differently in Asia itself.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2005-12-01 02:51pm

Hollywood typecasts Black actors, so Asians aren't alone in this.
Quick, other than James Earl Jones or *shudder* Whoopi Goldberg, how many Blacks star in movies that aren't comedies or action flicks?

LeVar Burton is the only one that immediately pops to mind.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2005-12-01 02:59pm

Glocksman wrote:Hollywood typecasts Black actors, so Asians aren't alone in this.
Quick, other than James Earl Jones or *shudder* Whoopi Goldberg, how many Blacks star in movies that aren't comedies or action flicks?

LeVar Burton is the only one that immediately pops to mind.

Plenty. Halle Berry, Sidney Poitier, Keith David, Ernie Hudson, Cuba Gooding Jr...these are just off the top of my head, I know that there lots more. But it's true, blacks in Hollywood had to crawl their way to the top and it took a long time before they got adaquate representation in film.

Grasscutter · Post by **Grasscutter** » 2005-12-01 03:15pm

Geishas are typically seen as subservient sex objects, and the fact that three of China's biggest stars are cast as geishas raises a LOT of old animosity from Chinese people stemming from Japanese abuses during World War II. I don't think it's hard to understand given the Imperial Japanese Army's habit of taking girls from conquered Asian countries and forcing them into prostitution.

Japanese people, meanwhile, are pissed that the film presents a stylized (read: flashy, modernized and grossly inaccurate) view of geisha's and Japanese culture.

I'm not too optimistic about how American audiences are going to recieve the movie either. An opening voice over basically explaining that the damn thing took place in Japan was added to the movie after a test screening. Why? The American test audience was confused over things like why the characters were dressed in kimonos and ate with chopsticks.

Add in the fact that Zhang Ziyi can't speak English well yet the movie is in English and I think we've got a real winner here

.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-12-01 03:28pm

Grasscutter wrote:
Add in the fact that Zhang Ziyi can't speak English well yet the movie is in English and I think we've got a real winner here .

What a pity, I loved the book. are there any early reviews up?

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2005-12-01 03:29pm

Yeah, I scratched my head too when I heard Zhang Ziyi was cast. Happy about Gong Li, I think she's gorgeous and just happy to see her on screen. But still, whoever does casting for movies about Asians these days need to go be whapped up the side of the head.

Anyone remember all the extras and "Koreans" on MASH?

But I think that a lot of people (who aren't Asian) wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyways.

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2005-12-01 03:49pm

Joe wrote:
"I just don't understand why," Chen said. "Geisha is a centuries-old Japanese tradition and cannot possibly be portrayed by Chinese actresses. The geisha have a sophisticated way of walking, holding a fan, smiling, and looking at people."
Man, I wonder if whoever said that has any idea how racist that sounds.

It is bullshit according to the next speaker, the 'narration' of the article summing up her statement that many modern Japanese couldn't pull off the role anyway. Maybe these three Chinese women were the only women around who had the spare time to be roped into learning what "the society of their characters" had forgotten?

[/slightly sarcastic]

Seriously, though, I guess I don't have the historical baggage to see a problem with three Chinese playing geishas; see the above as to why.

Hear hear, Admiral Valdemar. Politics (i.e. a perception of leftist Hollywood in both actors and "propaganda" movies, whether true or untrue) and piracy aren't excuses for bad movies that drives box offices down.

The Kernel, I can think of Takeshi Kaneshiro... albeit most Americans know him as the face of Akechi Hidemitsu Samanosuke in Onimusha (Warlords, Blade Warriors, Demon Siege) and Jin from House of Flying Daggers.

Durandal

Now that you mentioned that...

Grasscutter, "stylized (read: flashy, modernized and grossly inaccurate)" sums up my problem with The Last Samurai as well, if not (possibly?) many a Hollywood take on the past, period. In particular re: Memoirs of a Geisha, the trailer screamed one word to me: CATFIGHT

Grasscutter · Post by **Grasscutter** » 2005-12-01 04:02pm

Edward Yee wrote:Grasscutter, "stylized (read: flashy, modernized and grossly inaccurate)" sums up my problem with The Last Samurai as well, if not (possibly?) many a Hollywood take on the past, period. In particular re: Memoirs of a Geisha, the trailer screamed one word to me: CATFIGHT

But the samurai in Last Samurai generally looked historically accurate, right? The hairstyles, costumes, and dances we see in the trailer all seem like a funky, modern art interpretation of a geisha. It's especially puzzling given that a good deal of the book is spent describing the intracacies, nuances, and importance of a geisha's hair and dress.

Julhelm · Post by **Julhelm** » 2005-12-01 04:28pm

Hollywood hasn't produced anything remotely good since the 80's.

Quadlok · Post by **Quadlok** » 2005-12-01 04:35pm

Actually, the first thing I said when I saw the trailer is 'why are they using Chinese actresses for a movie that takes place in Japan?' For a while, I even thought it might be taking place during the occupation of Manchuria or something like that. Then again, there are enough Asians around here that I've gotten to be able to tell a Cambodian from a Thai or Vietnamese, so I'm probably not representative of my countrymen.