Moral dilemma: is this rape?

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2005-12-02 08:44pm

--In order to determine what rape is or is not I'd probably ask a lawyer since knowing what is illegal and what is legal is the interesting part.
-In Mike's example, unless the husband has discussed such a circumstance with his wife and she has given the okay, I would have to say that she has not consented. It should be noted, that in a good relationship the husband may very well not need to explicitly discuss such a thing with his wife in order to know what her position is. Nevertheless, unless the wife has consented to the act in some way beforehand the husband runs the risk of making a grave mistake and the wife cannot ask him to stop (for whatever unknown reason she may have) on account of being unconscience (e.g., Q may have told her not to have sex in her sleep or she would be hit with his bad luck wand).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-12-02 09:54pm

See, this is the kind of bullshit which only cheapens the word "rape" in my opinion. If you have a happy couple which has a great sex life and the husband starts fooling around with his wife in the morning without waking her up and securing explicit consent, he's a rapist? Get real; there was a period there where Rebecca and I would often wake each other up using precisely that method: sexual stimulation. In every case, no consent was secured before the fact. Gee, I guess we're both multiple rapists!

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2005-12-03 12:19am

I completely agree. Fey and I do this sort of thing all the time and its not inappropriate unless the other person says something about it. In my opinion a married couple raises the bar for what can be considered rape, it has to involve physically forcing yourself on her when she is telling you not to for it to be rape.

I think that a lot of people in this thread might not have been in either a married or relationship that involves living with someone and as such do not understand the concept involved here.

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2005-12-03 01:05am

--The question isn't really whether the wife can claim rape after years of messing around in this manner since there would be a high level of implied consent in such a case. The question really boils down to who's at fault the frist time this type of senario occurs between a married couple and the unconscience party has a serious objection. Is the burden on the unconscience party to make it clear they object before such a senario can occur or is it on the conscience party to make sure that it's okay before trying this for the first time.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-12-03 11:53am

I think the rule of thumb is that if you are in a situation where you aren't sure if it's rape or not, don't do it and accept a rosy palm.

In the situation described in the OT, it may not have been rape, but it was likely a bad thing to do anyway. If she passes out, you should stop simply because she isn't with it any more.

In the situation Mike described, with a long standing couple in a relationship that is long passed the point where sex is even a big deal, that's just normal and healthy (not to mention fun). If you are doing something she doesn't like, chances are she's going to tell you to back off in a hurry. Some women may not like it after all and that's cool. I know with my ex, the last thing she wanted was to deal with cock in the morning, even though she was a morning person because when she just got up, she wouldn't be horny (after she had her morning juice and had worked out for the day is a different story).

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-12-03 02:02pm

When you have a relationship, it's pretty much implied that you have consent unless othwise stated. Why else would we put lables on such things as 'going out' or 'steady'. Granted, 'married' takes on larger meaning, but again pretty much gives an implied consent unless otherwise said.

For the OT, yeah, she gave consent. It's creepy to continue, but it's there unless she 'on purpose' when to sleep which implies she recended her consent. Even still, as a guy, you kind of have to realize that your 'there' as a privilage and if you technically did nothing wrong, pissing her off is not apt to get you more another day.

Hell, I've been drunk and slipped in and out durring sex while she was still up and going. I do not feel like I was raped.

Trekdestroyer · Post by **Trekdestroyer** » 2005-12-03 03:14pm

Darth Wong wrote:See, this is the kind of bullshit which only cheapens the word "rape" in my opinion. If you have a happy couple which has a great sex life and the husband starts fooling around with his wife in the morning without waking her up and securing explicit consent, he's a rapist? Get real; there was a period there where Rebecca and I would often wake each other up using precisely that method: sexual stimulation. In every case, no consent was secured before the fact. Gee, I guess we're both multiple rapists!

It's not fair that you get to have such a crazy (in a good way) wife. Man...I fear to think what kind of alarm clock you would invent if given the resources to do so. I maean the casual way you describe such...delicate subjects is surprising. I don't know anyone who can do it besides you or my sex ed instructor.

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2005-12-03 05:33pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:... If you are doing something she doesn't like, chances are she's going to tell you to back off in a hurry. ...

--That is the whole problem. She is unconscience and can't tell you to stop. Nevertheless, in a good relationship where husband has a good idea of what the wife finds permittable and/or they've doing this sort of thing for some time everything will probably turn out just fine. However, many marriages end in failure, many couples don't communicate well or understand each other very well, etc. Since those circumstances are far from the exception I can't see how the title of husband/wife should give someone a free pass to screw their spouse without having some form of consent beforehand (whether it be implied or explicit). I really don't see what the problem is anyhow. At the very worst it would only take a quick question to avoid any potential misunderstanding and unless the couple doesn't communicate well about their sex life this sort of thing was probably already covered (if not explicitly then in related topics).

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-12-04 08:00am

Trekdestroyer wrote: It's not fair that you get to have such a crazy (in a good way) wife. Man...I fear to think what kind of alarm clock you would invent if given the resources to do so. I maean the casual way you describe such...delicate subjects is surprising. I don't know anyone who can do it besides you or my sex ed instructor.

It's not unusual for couples with a healthy sex drive to wake each other up like that -- hell, my girlfriend told me she'd like to wake up from me having sex with her; sadly, she didn't sleep over enough that I got down to actually trying it.