General Grievous' lightsaber skills

[Doctor Doom]

I apologize if this question has been raised in the past, but I found nothing in my search. But how do the lightsaber skills of General Grievous fair against the most powerful Jedi? It seems to me that General Grievous is incredibly skilled.

-In one of the Clone Wars cartoons, General Grievous is nearly beaten by Mace Windu, but is able to escape due to a "twist of fate." This shows he is no better then Mace Windu. Of course, the fact that he nearly held his own and was able to escape shows he has to be pretty skilled.

-In another Clone Wars cartoon, I believe it was five Jedi Masters with Clonetrooper support were beaten back by General Grievous, with two of the Jedi being killed, two being in need of urgent medical assistance, and the last one (Ki-Adi-Mundi) was forced to retreat with the surviving Clonetroopers.

-In the same Clone Wars cartoon, General Grievous held his own against Count Dooku until he used force powers. But in terms of pure lightsaber skill they were pretty much even.

-And, of course, we know that he was able to escape Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker once in ROTS, but Obi-Wan was eventually able to kill him (although General Grievous did a damn good job).

So where does this rank General Grievous? It seems to me that he is one of the best lightsaber duelists in the galaxy, perhaps with levels similar to Count Dooku or even Darth Sidious. If I remember correctly, which I might not, so correct me if I'm wrong, but Obi-Wan Kenobi was able to beat Grievous for two reasons. First Obi-Wan had previous experience fighting Grievous and at least had some knowledge of his skills. Second is that Obi-Wan's particular defensive, "give ground" style was simply suited to counter Grievous' offensive, "flurry of blows" style.

Anakin was able to defeat Count Dooku, which General Grievous simply could not, but could that possibly be due to Grievous' lack of force powers rather then actual lightsaber skill? And Grievous showed similar offensive skill to Darth Sidious in his duels with Ki-Adi-Mundi and the other Masters and with Mace Windu. However, the primary difference there is that in all of those instances General Grievous had the advantage in terms of surprise and ability to choose the battleground, which Darth Sidious did not have.

What do you think?

[SCRawl]

It sure seems to me as though Grievous ought to be able to pretty much do a Moulinex job on any Jedi. If used intelligently (and if the limbs are capable of operating with complete control), he should be able to tie up a Jedi's blade with two of his, and eviscerate with the other two.

I recall a moment in the duel with Kenobi, after two of Grievous' arms had already been severed. One of his blades was "locked up" with Kenobi's. What he should have done, of course, is use the other blade to lop off Kenobi's legs (or whatever target presented itself). Instead, as we see on film, he bashes away at Kenobi's blade, with minimal effect.

My theory for Grievous' lack of success against Kenobi is that he is not capable of complete control over four (really six, when you consider that he has to stand up) limbs simultaneously. It may be a limit of his organic brain, or it may be a limit of his control systems, I can't say.

Of course, I could be completely talking out of my ass.

[Ghost Rider]

Sort of.

Grievious like mentioned did require surprise, because he had to insure he overwhelmed said Jedi to not pretty much toss him like a rag doll in single combat. And it doesn't even have to be the Jedi throwing him, but multiple objects and such. Dooku mentions that is something he must explicitly avoid and why he has to jump in, surprise the Jedi with his overwhelming abilities and kill as fast as possible.

So pure skill he likely does fair pretty high, given he was taught by Dooku, has inhuman reflexes and has the ability to use more then one very easily. But Dooku, Mace, and even Obi Wan did show he can be crippled by drawing away the surprise factor.

[Winston Blake]

-In one of the Clone Wars cartoons, General Grievous is nearly beaten by Mace Windu, but is able to escape due to a "twist of fate." This shows he is no better then Mace Windu. Of course, the fact that he nearly held his own and was able to escape shows he has to be pretty skilled.

Nearly held his own? IIRC they never even fought, Mace just Force-crushed his chest as he was escaping and that was that.

-In another Clone Wars cartoon, I believe it was five Jedi Masters with Clonetrooper support were beaten back by General Grievous, with two of the Jedi being killed, two being in need of urgent medical assistance, and the last one (Ki-Adi-Mundi) was forced to retreat with the surviving Clonetroopers.

Clonetrooper support didn't arrive until some time after Ki-Adi-Mundi was the only one left. They held off Grievous well, with heavy blaster weapons, rifle-mounted grenade launchers and so-close-it's-not-funny air support. When they successfully extracted the Jedi the only reason the Clone Commander gave for not pursuing Grievous was that the survivors would die, not that they were incapable of having a good chance at killing him.

-In the same Clone Wars cartoon, General Grievous held his own against Count Dooku until he used force powers. But in terms of pure lightsaber skill they were pretty much even.

IIRC Dooku took the entire fight without even breaking his smirk, tone or posture, and was clearly superior.

It's important to realise that the CW Cartoon is considered to be a highly exaggerated telling of events, for example, Mace's flying kungfu badassery was supposedly the many-years-later recollection of the boy who gave him some water at the end.

[LadyTevar]

I think the main advantage Grievous had was his ability to efficiently wield four sabers. To be blunt, most Jedi are humaniod bipedal beings, leaving only two limbs available to fight with. Against an opponent with multiple rapid coordinated attacks, the Jedi is out of his 'comfort zone' so to speak.

When all your training partners use a style similar to your own, going against someone wildly different throws you off. The 'body memory' of your normal parries are going to be at war with what you're being forced to react to. Since I'm drawing this from my experience of sword-fighting in the SCA, I'll give you the example I'm thinking of: a sword and shield fighter facing a Florentine (two-sword) fighter for the first time. The shield fighter often gets confused because he can never be sure where the next attack is coming from, especially if the Florentine fighter goes into a rapid exchange of blows. Thus, the shield dips at the wrong time, and the Florentine fighter lands a telling blow.

Now, Jedi do have a combat sense that helps them in saber battles. But if the opponent is plotting 4 moves with 6 different limbs ahead of them, there will be confusion and doubt that will further cloud that Jedi's perceptions, expecially when you just saw this guy kill your best friend.

That fear and doubt is one reason why I think Grievious was able to beat the 5 Jedi. The Jedi were already backed into a corner and doubtful of survival, and this was the first time Grievious had appeared on the battlefield. The repeated shocks of his abilities to avoid harm, use a saber like a pro, kill one of their own so *easily* ......
I don't care how good the Jedi are, they were not calm and focused by that point.

[Winston Blake]

When all your training partners use a style similar to your own, going against someone wildly different throws you off. The 'body memory' of your normal parries are going to be at war with what you're being forced to react to.

Yes, IIRC Dooku explicitly tells Grievous to 'stop using the standard attacks, use the unconventional' (after which Grievous does some psycho saber-swapping body-flip), which strongly suggests that Jedi saber duelling is based on codified forms of attack that Grievous has been taught all about. Grievous saber style has basically been fine-tuned to waste Jedi on complete surprise, with him knowing the ins and outs of all their moves and his being inscrutable.

[Koolaidkirby]

I think the main advantage Grievous had was his ability to efficiently wield four sabers. To be blunt, most Jedi are humaniod bipedal beings, leaving only two limbs available to fight with. Against an opponent with multiple rapid coordinated attacks, the Jedi is out of his 'comfort zone' so to speak.

forgive me if i'm remembering incorrectly, but when we first see grevious in battle (the one with the 5 jedi hiding out in the ship wreck IIRC) all of the jedi were attacking him simultaniously from multiple sides, not really giving him much room to attack with "multiple rapid coordinated attacks". I think its fairly obvious that grevious does have a great deal of skill, but his fighting style of rapid attacks deffinatly plays a part as well(as it would have to be enough to overwhelm the precognition of the jedi). I really doubt that anyone short of Palpatine or maybe Dooku could take on that many jedi at once.

[Stuart Mackey]

When all your training partners use a style similar to your own, going against someone wildly different throws you off. The 'body memory' of your normal parries are going to be at war with what you're being forced to react to.

Yes, IIRC Dooku explicitly tells Grievous to 'stop using the standard attacks, use the unconventional' (after which Grievous does some psycho saber-swapping body-flip), which strongly suggests that Jedi saber duelling is based on codified forms of attack that Grievous has been taught all about. Grievous saber style has basically been fine-tuned to waste Jedi on complete surprise, with him knowing the ins and outs of all their moves and his being inscrutable.

Indeed,to take a fighter out of their comfort zone can be debilitating. I have found this is true with asian martial artists when confronted with a 'street situation' that does not conform in anyway with their training.

[Kurgan]

Grievous certainly acts like he has Jedi reflexes in CW: Season 2. I wonder if at this point the writers thought that Lucas intended to make him that way in the upcoming movie?

Many of us thought Grievious had at least an elementary grasp of the Force, before this was finally ruled out by ROTS itself (and CW: Season 3 seems to have gone along with this).

We don't see him using force powers, but his speed and reflexes lead one to think he has Jedi type precognition.

Now I just rationalize his CW antics as more exaggeration in the general tone of the series.

[Bill_Dunaway]

I wonder why if cyborgs can be such badasses Palpatine didn't create some elite cyborg clonetrooper or stormtrooper units. Or for that matter, why the CIS didn't create Grevious clones.

[Ghost Rider]

I wonder why if cyborgs can be such badasses Palpatine didn't create some elite cyborg clonetrooper or stormtrooper units. Or for that matter, why the CIS didn't create Grevious clones.

Extraordinarily expensive for a rather limited usage.

[Captain Cyran]

I wonder why if cyborgs can be such badasses Palpatine didn't create some elite cyborg clonetrooper or stormtrooper units. Or for that matter, why the CIS didn't create Grevious clones.

Extraordinarily expensive for a rather limited usage.

Doesn't Lucas also have a quote somewhere saying the tech is still relatively new and not perfected?

[Jim Raynor]

I wonder why if cyborgs can be such badasses Palpatine didn't create some elite cyborg clonetrooper or stormtrooper units. Or for that matter, why the CIS didn't create Grevious clones.

SPOILERS




In the General Grievous comic miniseries, Grievous attempts to create a number of Force-enhanced duplicates of himself out of several captured Padawans. However, the Padawans were able to escape.

[Cykeisme]

Has this not come up before?

Dooku's "fear, surprise and intimidation" criteria put the Jedi off balance, filling them with panic and doubt. When they aren't calm, they can't properly use the Force: they can't properly launch telekinetic attacks, and it's quite possible that they're also unable to use precognition when their minds aren't clear. When they can't use the Force to augment their physical abilities and for precognition, Jedi are no longer supernatural.
Grievous takes advantage of this by setting up situations to throw the Jedi off balance. That's what happened on Hypori.

The Count told him that if all three criteria weren't met, he should flee. Eventually he ran into a top-level Jedi combatant who refused to be frightened or intimidated. He did try to flee, but he didn't quite make it.

-In the same Clone Wars cartoon, General Grievous held his own against Count Dooku until he used force powers. But in terms of pure lightsaber skill they were pretty much even.

Isn't it obvious that Dooku was just toying with Grievous? It was a training session. The use of TK was just to make a point and remind GG of the other types of attacks he could expect when facing a Jedi.


About making more GG type cyborgs, I'd say that a big part of Grievous' effectiveness is no doubt due to his tenacity and skill as a warrior. That cybernetic body of his may be a highly effective weapon, but its wielder isn't your average bear, either.

Anyway, there were IG-100 MagnaGuard droids. They may have cost a bomb, but they were probably a lot cheaper than GG, weren't reliant on the uncontrollably random factor of an organic's skills, and could hold their own against Jedi.

[Kurgan]

I wonder why if cyborgs can be such badasses Palpatine didn't create some elite cyborg clonetrooper or stormtrooper units. Or for that matter, why the CIS didn't create Grevious clones.

Extraordinarily expensive for a rather limited usage.

While an extraordinarily effective argument in real life, in Star Wars it's become a catch-all cliche. Seriously, why can they afford to waste money in so many other areas, but not in this one? One might as well argue they could have funnelled the money they spent on Droidekas, new ships, magnaguards into something else. It's one thing to say the technology was new or difficult to implement, but to say they just didn't have the cash? What a cop out! We're supposed to accept that these "magnadroids" nearly bankrupted the CIS or some other poppycock. What about all those giant star ships and things that clearly cost a lot more?

On the other hand, having the General just to fight Jedi hand to hand seems pretty wasteful in the first place, since there are easier ways to kill them as we've seen. At least give him some missiles or something. If he were armed like a Dark Trooper he'd have been much more effective.

[SylasGaunt]

Grievous isn't just built to fight Jedi HTH. Grievous is built to be the fall guy for the CIS. A vicious and brutal bogey-man who all the CIS' atrocities through the war could be laid at the feet of. His killing Jedi in battle just helps build on that reputation.

[Cykeisme]

His overt purpose is as a military commander. He's described as being a strategic and tactical genius.

Fall guy indeed. His purpose is to divert hate from Count Dooku. Dooku musn't be hated, otherwise the CIS would lose needed support.

A bona fide baaad guy, the big GG is known for BDZing populated worlds and collecting lightsabers as trophies. Dude is designed to be a nasty fellow worthy of a two-minute hate.

[avatarxprime]

I wonder why if cyborgs can be such badasses Palpatine didn't create some elite cyborg clonetrooper or stormtrooper units. Or for that matter, why the CIS didn't create Grevious clones.

Extraordinarily expensive for a rather limited usage.

While an extraordinarily effective argument in real life, in Star Wars it's become a catch-all cliche. Seriously, why can they afford to waste money in so many other areas, but not in this one? One might as well argue they could have funnelled the money they spent on Droidekas, new ships, magnaguards into something else. It's one thing to say the technology was new or difficult to implement, but to say they just didn't have the cash? What a cop out! We're supposed to accept that these "magnadroids" nearly bankrupted the CIS or some other poppycock. What about all those giant star ships and things that clearly cost a lot more?

On the other hand, having the General just to fight Jedi hand to hand seems pretty wasteful in the first place, since there are easier ways to kill them as we've seen. At least give him some missiles or something. If he were armed like a Dark Trooper he'd have been much more effective.

The big ships might have cost more, but the original Trade Fed ships were just that, trade ships, they were capable of bringing in an income. Grievous on the other hand (just like his Magnaguards) are highly specialized uses, that are not capable of bringing money back. I mean Grievous was supposed to be a General, he didn't need a high performance body capable of standing up to Jedi in combat. Although with his role as the fall guy, the boogey man, then yeah he did need everything he got.

[Kurgan]

Extraordinarily expensive for a rather limited usage.

While an extraordinarily effective argument in real life, in Star Wars it's become a catch-all cliche. Seriously, why can they afford to waste money in so many other areas, but not in this one? One might as well argue they could have funnelled the money they spent on Droidekas, new ships, magnaguards into something else. It's one thing to say the technology was new or difficult to implement, but to say they just didn't have the cash? What a cop out! We're supposed to accept that these "magnadroids" nearly bankrupted the CIS or some other poppycock. What about all those giant star ships and things that clearly cost a lot more?

On the other hand, having the General just to fight Jedi hand to hand seems pretty wasteful in the first place, since there are easier ways to kill them as we've seen. At least give him some missiles or something. If he were armed like a Dark Trooper he'd have been much more effective.

The big ships might have cost more, but the original Trade Fed ships were just that, trade ships, they were capable of bringing in an income. Grievous on the other hand (just like his Magnaguards) are highly specialized uses, that are not capable of bringing money back. I mean Grievous was supposed to be a General, he didn't need a high performance body capable of standing up to Jedi in combat. Although with his role as the fall guy, the boogey man, then yeah he did need everything he got.

Baloney, what about looting the planets before they BDZ them or whatever? Isn't plundering something the bad guys are supposed to enjoy doing in fiction? Plus there's the other bad guy standby of ransoms (hey, maybe that was one motivation for capturing Palps! beyond plot device and plotting of course).

Why must we assume that they must utterly destroy everything they encounter, rather than salvaging what they need?

What I don't get is why they need a droid General at all? I mean I hear that the Droid control ships were nixed in favor of having droids you command just like humans in the field... helping explain why the droids seem so much more independent (and unreliable). Before ROTS came out there were rumors and speculation that Grievous himself was a miniature droid control carrier or something, which would make sense why they wanted to specifically take him out. After all, if Grievious was just a normal leader, why would taking him out end the war? Just replace him with another leader. Don't they have a line of succession or rank hierarchy? Sure it makes for a good plot device, but again, realistically, why wouldn't they have somebody to step up if he was killed?

Obviously the speculation proved false since they still needed to shut the droids down manually after all the leaders were dead ("ordering" them to shut down... wonder how that works if there is no central control shutdown system like in Episode I? Or is this akin to telling Threepio to shut himself down for awhile?).

True, Palps has Vader murder the rest of the leadership, and makes that point moot anyway...

His being the boogey man, the cruel hated leader was based on his actions, not his physical body. They didn't need for him to be a cyborg in order to garner his reputation. His evil deeds will suffice, and a scary mask can do the rest. It seems his desire to fight Jedi in saber combat is based on his huge ego more than anything. Again, there seem far more effective ways to kill Jedi than having a swordfight with them, especially when you lack Force abilities.

It makes for a cool villian to sell more action figures with, and have an excuse for another saber fight, and that's why we got him. In universe, I guess he just gets off on that kind of thing, and he just happens to be the military leader. His "genius" might be genuine or it might just be the apparent result of what Sideous has him do to keep the plan moving along.

[Noble Ire]

Baloney, what about looting the planets before they BDZ them or whatever? Isn't plundering something the bad guys are supposed to enjoy doing in fiction? Plus there's the other bad guy standby of ransoms (hey, maybe that was one motivation for capturing Palps! beyond plot device and plotting of course).

Why must we assume that they must utterly destroy everything they encounter, rather than salvaging what they need?

Do real militaries salvage arms from the lands they conquer, as long as that's not their original objective, or they are losing badly? As far as I remember, no. Considering the industrial base, the CIS never needs to plunder, unless the planet in question holds some unusually rare resource. Its far more efficent and intimidating simply to destroy the lot of it to ensure your enemy can't reclaim it.

After all, if Grievious was just a normal leader, why would taking him out end the war? Just replace him with another leader. Don't they have a line of succession or rank hierarchy? Sure it makes for a good plot device, but again, realistically, why wouldn't they have somebody to step up if he was killed?

Now your just being foolish. Sure, there's a line of succession, especially since GG isn't the leader of the CIS until after Dooku dies, but killing him would certainly destabilize the Confederacy. What effect do you think killing Hitler in 1942 would have had on the rest of the war? Would it stop immediately? No. But it would have been far shorter, and probably less costly on all sides. Why? Because if you rob a nation of an especially brutal or charistmatic or talented leader, the replacement probably won't be as good, or have the same motivations.

His being the boogey man, the cruel hated leader was based on his actions, not his physical body. They didn't need for him to be a cyborg in order to garner his reputation. His evil deeds will suffice, and a scary mask can do the rest. It seems his desire to fight Jedi in saber combat is based on his huge ego more than anything. Again, there seem far more effective ways to kill Jedi than having a swordfight with them, especially when you lack Force abilities.

A better question: Why not? Certainly Grievous's role could have been filled by any number of brutal CIS generals or coordinator droids, but GG served just as well, perhaps better, because of the fear built up by his physical form and prowess.

[Kurgan]

Baloney, what about looting the planets before they BDZ them or whatever? Isn't plundering something the bad guys are supposed to enjoy doing in fiction? Plus there's the other bad guy standby of ransoms (hey, maybe that was one motivation for capturing Palps! beyond plot device and plotting of course).

Why must we assume that they must utterly destroy everything they encounter, rather than salvaging what they need?

Do real militaries salvage arms from the lands they conquer, as long as that's not their original objective, or they are losing badly? As far as I remember, no. Considering the industrial base, the CIS never needs to plunder, unless the planet in question holds some unusually rare resource. Its far more efficent and intimidating simply to destroy the lot of it to ensure your enemy can't reclaim it.

The argument was being given that they couldn't afford stuff. That they were short on MONEY, and Grievious couldn't get them money. My proposal was if they were short on money or resources, they should be gathering it as plunder, rather than burning everything to the ground. Such wastefulness hardly seems more worthwhile as a psychological tactic, especially if they are short. So either money isn't a problem, or they're shooting themselves in the foot purposely to look more badass.

Now your just being foolish. Sure, there's a line of succession, especially since GG isn't the leader of the CIS until after Dooku dies, but killing him would certainly destabilize the Confederacy. What effect do you think killing Hitler in 1942 would have had on the rest of the war?

Did Hitler have a clear line of succession if he was killed?

First they killed Dooku, then they killed Grievious, then they killed Nute Gunray and all those other nameless Seperatist guys in the board room. I got the impression Grievious was the military commander (of the droid army) while Dooku was more the political leader. In any case, with him dead we see Grievious intimidating the other "leaders" and sending them to Mustafar. If anything the real "leader" of the CIS is Darth Sideous. Grievious, Dooku, and Gunray all report to him.

Would it stop immediately? No. But it would have been far shorter, and probably less costly on all sides. Why? Because if you rob a nation of an especially brutal or charistmatic or talented leader, the replacement probably won't be as good, or have the same motivations.

Sure, there's reasons to go after a leader, but everyone in the movie acts like the war will end as soon as Grievious is dead. It could be them being naive or exaggerated for dramatic effect, but that's how the story leads.

A better question: Why not? Certainly Grievous's role could have been filled by any number of brutal CIS generals or coordinator droids, but GG served just as well, perhaps better, because of the fear built up by his physical form and prowess.

I don't disagree. Grievious's droid body and his "ability" to fight Jedi is completely secondary to any other roles he plays. It seemed to be being argued that it was somehow necessary for him to have these abilities and physical makeup, and that this justified diverting valuable funds to make him this way, and give him magnadroids, etc. And it's been implied that this was a tremendous financial strain on the CIS. They may have been idiots when it came to money, but it seems a stretch. All of this is done to explain why we don't see more than one "Grievious" running around or more Magnadroids and Droidekas, instead of armies of "useless" Battledroids which seem better suited for comic relief than fighting.

[Noble Ire]

The argument was being given that they couldn't afford stuff. That they were short on MONEY, and Grievious couldn't get them money. My proposal was if they were short on money or resources, they should be gathering it as plunder, rather than burning everything to the ground. Such wastefulness hardly seems more worthwhile as a psychological tactic, especially if they are short. So either money isn't a problem, or they're shooting themselves in the foot purposely to look more badass.

Oh. In that case, I'm fairly sure that the CIS was never financially strapped (perhaps after losing the Neimodian purse worlds, but even then, they weren't in any real danger of collapsing from it), thus the point is moot. After all, it did encompass most of the major money holders and industrial centers in the galaxy.

Did Hitler have a clear line of succession if he was killed?

I'm not entirely sure, although I imagine he had some kind of obvious successor, even if he wasn't offically ordained.

First they killed Dooku, then they killed Grievious, then they killed Nute Gunray and all those other nameless Seperatist guys in the board room. I got the impression Grievious was the military commander (of the droid army) while Dooku was more the political leader. In any case, with him dead we see Grievious intimidating the other "leaders" and sending them to Mustafar. If anything the real "leader" of the CIS is Darth Sideous. Grievious, Dooku, and Gunray all report to him.

That's all true. Actually, discussing the political/military successionary or lasting power of the CIS is difficult in general, considering the fact it was designed to be defeated in the end.

Sure, there's reasons to go after a leader, but everyone in the movie acts like the war will end as soon as Grievious is dead. It could be them being naive or exaggerated for dramatic effect, but that's how the story leads.

It won't end immediately, but it will break the Seperatist's backs, so to speak. Losing both your military and political commander with less than a week can't help moral.

[Kurgan]

Good points, but what difference does moral make if your army is made up of droids?

Then again, I guess it still does matter, because the droids in Episodes II and III increasingly have personalities and emotions, including cowardice.

I guess you have to bribe them with ram chips and stuff.

Perhaps Grievious was made half-droid to appear more ethnically sympathetic? (to use a loaded political analogy, like hiring a black guy to head your minorities outreach program or something).

[Noble Ire]

I would think largely the attitudes of the droids are irrelevant, I was refering more to the higher ups, like those on the council, and other financial backers. They are quite organic and suseptible to moral changes. Perhaps moreso, since most of them are businessmen/women/things, and they would consider a failing war effort a bad financial prospect.

[Kurgan]

On the other hand, what do they think will happen to them if they surrender or are captured? Is Palpatine's Republic becoming ruthless enough that they feel they could face trial and execution for war crimes?

Or would they think they'd be able to bribe their way into some kind of "arrangement" by trading money or resources/knowledge for their freedom? (like the Allied powers taking in war criminals after WW2 for those kinds of reasons)

Unless of course they know that Sideous is on the other side pulling the strings (they just don't know he's planned to betray them to death all along).... meaning his wiping them out was in part to keep them from talking... I'm especially remembering here Dooku's speech to Obi-Wan about Nute Gunray in AOTC. In TPM, Sideous also hints to Gunray that he has control of the Senate...

In ROTS it almost sounds like the Seperatist leaders are on the brink of giving up, and only obey because they are so desperate for a solution for escape that they'll continue to trust Sideous (and they're intimidated by Grievious, at least in that one scene). In any case, even if their morale is hurt, it doesn't sound like to me they have much choice but to continue on, hoping the Republic will eventually sue for peace due to the costliness of the war.