Darth Maul vs. Neo

[Moonstone Spider]

Jedi telekenesis

Qui gon and Obi Wan killing various droids by telekenisis in TPM

Maul flinking Obi Wan over the edge of the pit in TPM

Anakin in the factory in AotC

Jedi in the arena in AotC

Yoda and Dooku in AotC

Lightsaber retrival. appears first in AotC

Obi Wan tapping the wall in ANH

Yoda instructing Luke to lift rocks

Yoda lifts the X wing

Vader flings machinary at luke

Vader sends luke down that shaft (IIRC that is implied in shadows of the empire so it's a little uncertain)

Yet more saber retrival in TESB

Can't remember seeing anything more than saber retrival in RotJ

None of which seem to be picking your opponent up. If that tactic really worked why didn't Obi-Wan just pick up Jango Fett? Why didn't Annakin just force-grab Zam Wessel? Why didn't Luke simply pick up the Noghri that hunted him? Why didn't Luke Force-Toss all his opponents out of Jabba's Sail Barge and into the Sarlacc? It's a good tactic, and there's some reason no Jedi or Sith has ever used it under any circumstances.

correction in reality Neo's reflexes are piss poor. Maul would kill him almost instantly. And as for the 'matrix' you did notice that Maul was a sith lord. He'd simply overload the thing, killing everyone nearby. Force powered virtual gridfire...

Actually you haven't the slightest idea how Maul would do in the matrix, you're basically making an assumption bigger than any Trekkie who ever lived. In addition, as pointed out Neo has trained in probably every Martial Art known to man (We already covered this in this thread) so he's got some mad skills even in real life. And Neo with a pair of Uzis would leave Maul looking like a pincushion even without his matrix powers, which he has in this thread. Besides, have you actually read this thread's base assumptions? Maul isn't in the Matrix, it's Maul as he normally appears vs. Neo as he normally appears in the Matrix. It's really sad to see Warsies reduced to making up what they think will happen and claiming it as fact rather than admit defeat against somebody who's only one step down from a god.

[NecronLord]

Jedi telekenesis

Qui gon and Obi Wan killing various droids by telekenisis in TPM

Maul flinking Obi Wan over the edge of the pit in TPM

Anakin in the factory in AotC

Jedi in the arena in AotC

Yoda and Dooku in AotC

Lightsaber retrival. appears first in AotC

Obi Wan tapping the wall in ANH

Yoda instructing Luke to lift rocks

Yoda lifts the X wing

Vader flings machinary at luke

Vader sends luke down that shaft (IIRC that is implied in shadows of the empire so it's a little uncertain)

Yet more saber retrival in TESB

Can't remember seeing anything more than saber retrival in RotJ

None of which seem to be picking your opponent up. If that tactic really worked why didn't Obi-Wan just pick up Jango Fett? Why didn't Annakin just force-grab Zam Wessel? Why didn't Luke simply pick up the Noghri that hunted him? Why didn't Luke Force-Toss all his opponents out of Jabba's Sail Barge and into the Sarlacc? It's a good tactic, and there's some reason no Jedi or Sith has ever used it under any circumstances.

Because of courrrsseee a human no just so much deadweight

correction in reality Neo's reflexes are piss poor. Maul would kill him almost instantly. And as for the 'matrix' you did notice that Maul was a sith lord. He'd simply overload the thing, killing everyone nearby. Force powered virtual gridfire...

Actually you haven't the slightest idea how Maul would do in the matrix, you're basically making an assumption bigger than any Trekkie who ever lived. In addition, as pointed out Neo has trained in probably every Martial Art known to man (We already covered this in this thread) so he's got some mad skills even in real life. And Neo with a pair of Uzis would leave Maul looking like a pincushion even without his matrix powers, which he has in this thread. Besides, have you actually read this thread's base assumptions? Maul isn't in the Matrix, it's Maul as he normally appears vs. Neo as he normally appears in the Matrix. It's really sad to see Warsies reduced to making up what they think will happen and claiming it as fact rather than admit defeat against somebody who's only one step down from a god.

Neo RL with 2 Uzi's = neo a stain on the wall. And actually I did. And Every martial art known to man vs the force? You really are a sucker. You should stop masturbating to what I found to be a rather boring piece of subjective reality crap. If neo can do his super speed in the matrix Maul would A) be able to use the force to destroy the whole thing/Neo's mind. B)Move as fast if not faster..

What part of this is a leap exactly?

1) Users who were not born in the matrix, or have been freed can do funky special effects with sufficient willpower.
2) Maul Was not born in the matrix
3) Maul has the disipline to become a sith
4) Maul can therefore do funky special effects in the matrix.

[NecronLord]

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

LOL

[Durandal]

This quote is quite correct, but you're taking it out of context, since they were specifically speaking of the fact that they didn't forsee the clone army being formed. That's my whole point, when combined with complaints about Jedi arrogance it shows that their powers have not diminished, only their foreseeing.

So, you've chosen to simply ignore the quote, despite the fact that its face-value implications fit everything we've seen, like Obi-Wan being given a run for his money against a bounty hunter, when in the previous film he could run at superhuman speeds?

Your reasoning is horrendously circular. "They meant only precognitive abilities because Jedi are too stupid to use their supernatural power in a situation where they were vastly outnumbered, because only their precognitive abilities were affected, even though there is absolutely nothing to support that conclusion."

Give it a rest. Did you read the novel? Jango was scared of Obi-Wan. That's why he ran away! The Jedi are the most feared warriors in the galaxy, and for good reason! They can run ultra-fast and take lots of punishment, as we say in TPM. That's all changed in AotC, but the Jedi don't want anyone to know because <drum roll please>, their enemies could more easily defeat them!

[neoolong]

Necronlord, just wondering but where was it shown that people that were born free could even get into the Matrix?

[NecronLord]

Wether or not they can. (Almost certainly with the right equipment.) is irrelevant. It is neccesary to fulfill the terms of the VS.

[Crown]

None of which seem to be picking your opponent up. If that tactic really worked why didn't Obi-Wan just pick up Jango Fett? Why didn't Annakin just force-grab Zam Wessel? Why didn't Luke simply pick up the Noghri that hunted him? Why didn't Luke Force-Toss all his opponents out of Jabba's Sail Barge and into the Sarlacc? It's a good tactic, and there's some reason no Jedi or Sith has ever used it under any circumstances.

Bang! Shouldn't have included the EU:

Vision of the Future, Timothy Zahn, Hardback, pg 379 - 380
"Asked?" Car'das gave a short, self-deprecating laugh. "Not asked, Talon. Demanded."

He shook his head at the memory. "It must have looked quite absurd, really. There I stood, towering over him [Yoda] with a blaster in one hand and my beckon call in the other, threatening to bring my ship and all its awesome weaponry to bear on this short, wizened creature leaning on a staff in front of me. Of course, I was the single-handed creator of the greatest smuggling organisation of all time, while he was nothing but a simple little Jedi Master." He shook his head again.

"I'm suprised he didn't kill you on the spot," Shada said.

"At the time, I almost wished he had," Car'das said ruefully. "It would have been far less humiliating. Instead, he simply took the beckon call and blaster away from me and sent them spinning off into the swamp, then held me suspended a few centimeters above the ground and let me scream and fail to my heart's content."

[Anarchist Bunny]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa, everyone seems to be forgeting one big thing. Luke and 3-CPO at the Ewoks villiage, where Luke gets himself out of being the main course.

[Crown]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa, everyone seems to be forgeting one big thing. Luke and 3-CPO at the Ewoks villiage, where Luke gets himself out of being the main course.

*Crown begins to smack himself with the obvious stick*

*Thwap* *Thwap* *Thwap* *Thwap*

Thanks you bunny that is an anarchist you!

[Yogi]

Willpower actually has nothing to do with Special Effects in the Matrix. It's the ability to "think outside the box."

[Moonstone Spider]

Yes, otherwise every human would go around with superpowers. Only with the special Matrix training Neo went through would Maul know what Neo did.

As pointed out, in The Matrix itself, they don't free a mind past a certain age, a person becomes too set in their ways and can't handle Matrix fighting. Neo was already past that level but survived due to being the one. Maul is almost certainly also past that level, ergo it's far more likely that Maul goes nuts and kills himself than the Masturbation Gridfire scenario. I find it hilarious that I'm the one getting called Masturbatory when the Warsies are inventing crap completely outside canon.

NecronLord, the scenario was quite clear when this thread was started. Neo powered ST-style Hologram vs. Maul. The Scenario does not demand that we magically give all of Neo's powers to Maul, nor does it demand that we warp Matrix Canon so you can wank off. If you don't believe me, click the number one on this thread and read it for yourself.

Hey, since apparently the Warsies are giving Maul the Matrix does Neo have the force? I'm sure Warsies will reject that option, after all that would be fair and consistent and then they'd lose.

However I'll back down on the force-lift as now I have seen canon proof it has happened. So Maul is perfectly able to Pick up Neo. Too Bad Neo in-Matrix is still fast enough to leave Maul in 20 pieces HtH (Or with a few hundred bullet holes in his chest if we go armed) before Maul's managed to get off an attack.

[NecronLord]

Oops youve posted again. Just as I thought the bloody obious has hit you in the face at last.

Yes, otherwise every human would go around with superpowers. Only with the special Matrix training Neo went through would Maul know what Neo did.

As pointed out, in The Matrix itself, they don't free a mind past a certain age, a person becomes too set in their ways and can't handle Matrix fighting. Neo was already past that level but survived due to being the one. Maul is almost certainly also past that level, ergo it's far more likely that Maul goes nuts and kills himself than the Masturbation Gridfire scenario. I find it hilarious that I'm the one getting called Masturbatory when the Warsies are inventing crap completely outside canon.

Maul was raised as a sith from a young age. No box

NecronLord, the scenario was quite clear when this thread was started. Neo powered ST-style Hologram vs. Maul. The Scenario does not demand that we magically give all of Neo's powers to Maul, nor does it demand that we warp Matrix Canon so you can wank off. If you don't believe me, click the number one on this thread and read it for yourself.

Safety protocols as well? What warping would this be?

Hey, since apparently the Warsies are giving Maul the Matrix does Neo have the force? I'm sure Warsies will reject that option, after all that would be fair and consistent and then they'd lose.

Errr the Force is a genetic thing. You must be born with it. The matrix stuff is not.