SWIII questions

[dragon]

Ok was watching the DVD for the first time and noticed a few things I have questions or comments on.

1. The fighter pilots have space suits on and managed to survive his ship exploding yet the Jedi have no suits. Do they explain anywhere why or are they just over confindent?

2. When the buzz droids are tearing up the ships neither jedi uses their TK ability to remove them.

3. When Anakin uses his blasters on the hanger shields it seems rather easy for a fighter to access the hanger, are the hanger shield emitters unprotected.

4. Do they not belive in computer security after all Artoo has no problem jacking into computer systems.

5. During the broadside exchange at about 15:39 a shot comes though the opening of a gun port and explodes inside the room doing very little damage only taking out one gun mount. Seems a little low powered.

6. Gen. Greivious is always coughing and wheezing like he can't breath yet he cacn existed outside his ship in a vacuum with out to much problems.

7. When Kenobi is fighting Greivious he uses no TK attacks even when he had a clear advantage. I assume he was delaying into reinforcements arrived. However the second time when Kenobi lost his light saber he had no reason and several good ones to use TK to throw Grevious off the platform yet he doesn't.

8. Why didn't Kenobi use his TK to pull his light saber back into his hand after he drops it.

9. Why were there no alarms when the clones attacked the planent where Kenobi and Grevious were fighting. Even if they didn't have active sensors they should have at least some look outs.

10. Yoda mention the netherworld of the force. Do they ever mention it inany of the books about what it is like

11. Not so much in the movie but Jedi are not supposed to have famillies. It seems like they would incourage famillies as it would provide an extra anchor holding them to the light side. Also since the force is partly herdity it would allow them to increase their numbers. Plus if you forbide attachements they will usally form anyways and then the they will try to hide and put them even closer to the dark side.

There were many other parts in the movie that seems a little iffy but these are enough to start.

[Noble Ire]

1. The fighter pilots have space suits on and managed to survive his ship exploding yet the Jedi have no suits. Do they explain anywhere why or are they just over confindent?

Overconfidence, probably. They don't wear battle armor usually either. And just because the pilot was ejected intact from the fireball doesn't mean he survived.

2. When the buzz droids are tearing up the ships neither jedi uses their TK ability to remove them.

This would appear to be an error, yes.

3. When Anakin uses his blasters on the hanger shields it seems rather easy for a fighter to access the hanger, are the hanger shield emitters unprotected.

Usually, the main shields protect the hull. They were reduced from the fleet bombardment, and thus Anakin was able to target the shield, which presumably offer little protection just atmospheric control.

4. Do they not belive in computer security after all Artoo has no problem jacking into computer systems.

IIRC, R2 was modified by Anakin to including hacking hardware, which he exhibits several times in the OT.

5. During the broadside exchange at about 15:39 a shot comes though the opening of a gun port and explodes inside the room doing very little damage only taking out one gun mount. Seems a little low powered.

I believe the shot went through a shield before it hit, which may have reduced its power. In any event, the weapons were of lower yield than normal, due to the proximity of the combatants.

6. Gen. Greivious is always coughing and wheezing like he can't breath yet he cacn existed outside his ship in a vacuum with out to much problems.

He doesn't need to breath. The hacking is purely a result of internal damage inflicted by Mace Windu on Coruscant.

7. When Kenobi is fighting Greivious he uses no TK attacks even when he had a clear advantage. I assume he was delaying into reinforcements arrived. However the second time when Kenobi lost his light saber he had no reason and several good ones to use TK to throw Grevious off the platform yet he doesn't.

He does use TK attacks several times, although not as often as one would expect, no.

8. Why didn't Kenobi use his TK to pull his light saber back into his hand after he drops it.

Because he either didn't notice until a bit later, or the Boga carried him out of out-of-sight range too quickly.

9. Why were there no alarms when the clones attacked the planent where Kenobi and Grevious were fighting. Even if they didn't have active sensors they should have at least some look outs.

Jamming, probably. Its also possible that the Utapauns sabotagued them.

10. Yoda mention the netherworld of the force. Do they ever mention it inany of the books about what it is like

Vaguely. Generally, the Force is described as a misty, metaphysical abstraction. Nothing really solid.

11. Not so much in the movie but Jedi are not supposed to have famillies. It seems like they would incourage famillies as it would provide an extra anchor holding them to the light side. Also since the force is partly herdity it would allow them to increase their numbers. Plus if you forbide attachements they will usally form anyways and then the they will try to hide and put them even closer to the dark side.

THis part of Jedi doctrine is quite questionable, probably resulting a refusal to part with tradition. Nevertheless, it does have some support. After all, Anakin did fall in part because he loved Padme. HOwever, it seems to have the opposite general effect on Jedi later on, in Luke's Order. As for its genetic charachteristics, the method by which the Force is passed down is confusing and largely unknown, IIRC.

[The Guid]

About the Buzz Droids I would presume it is a concentration thing. Obi Wan and Anakian are focusing too much on flying to be able to focus and use the force to throw the Buzz Droids off the ship. Same kind of story with Grevious I would guess.

[dragon]

Ok good points clears up a few things but a few more.

I believe the shot went through a shield before it hit, which may have reduced its power. In any event, the weapons were of lower yield than normal, due to the proximity of the combatants.

Ok even though they are next to each other an a full power blast might cause damage to themshelves how would a reduced blast be able to peirce shields and hulls designed to shrug of gigatons worth of firepower.

He doesn't need to breath. The hacking is purely a result of internal damage inflicted by Mace Windu on Coruscant.

Is that mentioned in the novelization or some where else.

Jamming, probably. Its also possible that the Utapauns sabotagued them.

Ok sensors jammed but no one noticed the great big ships hovering in the sky or were they so confident in their sensors they had no look outs. Also if you are activly jamming someone they would detect the jamming.

As for the heridty we know luke and Leia and all three of her kids are jedi. Are there any other off spring from other jedi mentioned that are force sensitive as well.

[Darth Wong]

4. Do they not belive in computer security after all Artoo has no problem jacking into computer systems.

Notice how he can't do anything really important though, like shutting down the ship's weapons or forcing it to land. All he can do is make the elevator go.

5. During the broadside exchange at about 15:39 a shot comes though the opening of a gun port and explodes inside the room doing very little damage only taking out one gun mount. Seems a little low powered.

It obviously must have punched through and done more damage deeper inside the ship, because the ship immediately started plunging down into Coruscant's gravity well. If what we saw was all the damage it did, there's no reason the ship should have gone out of control.

7. When Kenobi is fighting Greivious he uses no TK attacks even when he had a clear advantage. I assume he was delaying into reinforcements arrived. However the second time when Kenobi lost his light saber he had no reason and several good ones to use TK to throw Grevious off the platform yet he doesn't.

He does use TK later against Grievous, when the rest of Grievous' battledroid army is otherwise occupied and would not immediately crisp him with a hellish cross-fire that even Obi-Wan couldn't survive.

9. Why were there no alarms when the clones attacked the planent where Kenobi and Grevious were fighting. Even if they didn't have active sensors they should have at least some look outs.

The Utapau natives are not allied with the Confederacy, and were invaded by force. They could easily have done something to stymie the Confederacy's ability to detect incoming ships.

[dragon]

It obviously must have punched through and done more damage deeper inside the ship, because the ship immediately started plunging down into Coruscant's gravity well. If what we saw was all the damage it did, there's no reason the ship should have gone out of control.

Ok rewatched the scene there are two times a round explodes inside. At 15:39 a round enters the clone ship and at 15:57 a round explodes in the droid ship causing it to go out of control. There is quite a bit of secondary extra damage in the droid ship can't determine if the extra damage is from the explosion or from secondary effects such as ammo cooking off.

Notice how he can't do anything really important though, like shutting down the ship's weapons or forcing it to land. All he can do is make the elevator go

So critical systems are either better protected or are not accessible from remote locations, make sense.

[Srynerson]

2. When the buzz droids are tearing up the ships neither jedi uses their TK ability to remove them.

This would appear to be an error, yes.

Are there any canon accounts of a Jedi using TK through vacuum?

[Oddysseus]

So critical systems are either better protected or are not accessible from remote locations, make sense.

Remember what R2 could access in ANH. A basic map, itineraries (time of execution), waste management controls. No access codes, Tarkin's favorite tea, or the Emperor's recipe for fried chicken. And imagine if R2 could have just controlled the tractor beam. Heck, what if R2 could control the turbolasers, or main gun...or set something to overload (or a delayed one for after they escape). That'd end things quick...but it wasn't possible. Storywise, all good. Logically, all good.

But if it was possible imagine the trouble you could inflict with preporgrammed droids set to go wander off, hack in, and... destroy (Sir! The Executor has opened fire on the fleet. - Good, an end to rebel scum. - No! Our fleet.). A good reason to have human control of many critical systems.

[Eframepilot]

2. When the buzz droids are tearing up the ships neither jedi uses their TK ability to remove them.

This would appear to be an error, yes.

Are there any canon accounts of a Jedi using TK through vacuum?

Vader choked Ozzel from a considerable distance away, and doing it through countless bulkheads is logically more impressive than through a small canopy and a few feet of vacuum. Maybe the droids were, um, holding on too tight for Obi-Wan to push them off? Obi-Wan has lots of examples of not using his powers in situations where he really should (didn't break handcuffs in AOTC arena with TK, infamous skirmish with Jango Fett, not using superspeed in Theed core hallways). This is just another one, albeit harder to justify.

[Oddysseus]

2. When the buzz droids are tearing up the ships neither jedi uses their TK ability to remove them.

This would appear to be an error, yes.

Are there any canon accounts of a Jedi using TK through vacuum?

Well let's see. What is the official word on what Luke did at the end of ANH? Did he just sense the right moment and vector to shoot? Or did he kinda...nudge it in?

If not, I can't think of any in film? I bet theirs more than one in the books, though I am definitely not suitably read up to say.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

2. When the buzz droids are tearing up the ships neither jedi uses their TK ability to remove them.

This would appear to be an error, yes.

Are there any canon accounts of a Jedi using TK through vacuum?

Why the hell would that make any sort of difference? Telekinesis isn't like a sonic pressure wave.

[Oddysseus]

This would appear to be an error, yes.

Are there any canon accounts of a Jedi using TK through vacuum?

Vader choked Ozzel from a considerable distance away, and doing it through countless bulkheads is logically more impressive than through a small canopy and a few feet of vacuum. Maybe the droids were, um, holding on too tight for Obi-Wan to push them off? Obi-Wan has lots of examples of not using his powers in situations where he really should (didn't break handcuffs in AOTC arena with TK, infamous skirmish with Jango Fett, not using superspeed in Theed core hallways). This is just another one, albeit harder to justify.

Damn! An example. But I think the point still stands that in the midst of a massive and savage space battle, Obi had to focus a good deal on reacting to ships veering in his path, shots coming at him (and strays), and just basic steering. It would seem that trying to focus on sensing through the force enough to keep himself and his ship intact could be consuming the near total of his attention. Hard to relax and concentrate when you are flying by the seat of your pants.

You might ask why Vader didn't force choke Luke instead of trying to get a bead, and how the Falcon jumped him, a jedi (Focused on reading his target and prepping the shot, or just lazy. ). But that is most likely aset of silly questions. I'm gonna stick with my half baked idea, until I get a better one.

[dragon]

Might not be so half baked. Obi Wan has remarked on more than one occasion that he hates flying. Maybe it takes all his concentration to fly under extreme conditions.

[FTeik]

So critical systems are either better protected or are not accessible from remote locations, make sense.

Remember what R2 could access in ANH. A basic map, itineraries (time of execution), waste management controls. No access codes, Tarkin's favorite tea, or the Emperor's recipe for fried chicken. And imagine if R2 could have just controlled the tractor beam. Heck, what if R2 could control the turbolasers, or main gun...or set something to overload (or a delayed one for after they escape). That'd end things quick...but it wasn't possible. Storywise, all good. Logically, all good.

But if it was possible imagine the trouble you could inflict with preporgrammed droids set to go wander off, hack in, and... destroy (Sir! The Executor has opened fire on the fleet. - Good, an end to rebel scum. - No! Our fleet.). A good reason to have human control of many critical systems.

The destruction of the Eclipse in EmpiresEnd comes to mind ...

[Tribun]

So critical systems are either better protected or are not accessible from remote locations, make sense.

Remember what R2 could access in ANH. A basic map, itineraries (time of execution), waste management controls. No access codes, Tarkin's favorite tea, or the Emperor's recipe for fried chicken. And imagine if R2 could have just controlled the tractor beam. Heck, what if R2 could control the turbolasers, or main gun...or set something to overload (or a delayed one for after they escape). That'd end things quick...but it wasn't possible. Storywise, all good. Logically, all good.

But if it was possible imagine the trouble you could inflict with preporgrammed droids set to go wander off, hack in, and... destroy (Sir! The Executor has opened fire on the fleet. - Good, an end to rebel scum. - No! Our fleet.). A good reason to have human control of many critical systems.

The destruction of the Eclipse in EmpiresEnd comes to mind ...

I will call this EU-bullshit.

I only quote C3PO in ANH: "The main entrance seems to be the only way in or out; all other information on your level is restricted."

[Civil War Man]

1. The fighter pilots have space suits on and managed to survive his ship exploding yet the Jedi have no suits. Do they explain anywhere why or are they just over confindent?

I'd say mostly overconfident. Seeing as how Jedi have been able to survive in really harsh environments, it's possible that they could resist the insanely cold temperature and pull off Guybrush Threepwood's "I can hold my breath for ten minutes!" But the possibility that they might even consider that puts it strongly in overconfidence because either a) they think they can get to safety before they use up all their power stores, or b) they find it unthinkable that anyone could possibly shoot them down.

11. Not so much in the movie but Jedi are not supposed to have famillies. It seems like they would incourage famillies as it would provide an extra anchor holding them to the light side. Also since the force is partly herdity it would allow them to increase their numbers. Plus if you forbide attachements they will usally form anyways and then the they will try to hide and put them even closer to the dark side.

Jedi mindset: It is true that families provide an anchor, but that anchor is a double-edged sword. What if their family were to come to harm? Execution of a Jedi's loved ones can bring them to the dark side more swiftly and surely than a secret affair.

Plus, one of the Jedi Council members was allowed to marry because his species was dwindling in number and had problems reproducing. Of course, it was as much of a convenience marriage as it sounds, since he apparently took measures to make sure his attachment to his wife would not even begin to rival his attachment to the Jedi Order.

[Elheru Aran]

So critical systems are either better protected or are not accessible from remote locations, make sense.

Remember what R2 could access in ANH. A basic map, itineraries (time of execution), waste management controls. No access codes, Tarkin's favorite tea, or the Emperor's recipe for fried chicken. And imagine if R2 could have just controlled the tractor beam. Heck, what if R2 could control the turbolasers, or main gun...or set something to overload (or a delayed one for after they escape). That'd end things quick...but it wasn't possible. Storywise, all good. Logically, all good.

But if it was possible imagine the trouble you could inflict with preporgrammed droids set to go wander off, hack in, and... destroy (Sir! The Executor has opened fire on the fleet. - Good, an end to rebel scum. - No! Our fleet.). A good reason to have human control of many critical systems.

The destruction of the Eclipse in EmpiresEnd comes to mind ...

Remember that Luke had had control of the World Devastators, and had put many of his codes into Artoo; that's how R2 was able to destroy them. I wouldn't be surprised if clone-Palpatine, typically overconfident, had forgotten to change a few codes or two.

[Noble Ire]

2. When the buzz droids are tearing up the ships neither jedi uses their TK ability to remove them.

This would appear to be an error, yes.

Are there any canon accounts of a Jedi using TK through vacuum?

-The destruction of starships in DE
-The displacement of Pellaeon's fleet in Darksaber
IIRC, Kyp Durron used it while fighting off the Vong space bug things, even though he couldn't use it on them directly.

[nightmare]

Remember that Luke had had control of the World Devastators, and had put many of his codes into Artoo; that's how R2 was able to destroy them. I wouldn't be surprised if clone-Palpatine, typically overconfident, had forgotten to change a few codes or two.

It's even worse than that. Palpatine knew what Luke was up to but was too overconfident to even care about it. Which I would say shows he's gone over the hill in DE.

[FTeik]

Not necessarily: The codes provided by Luke Skywalker for the WDs didn't work - R2 hat to create his own codes or modify the ones he got from Luke.

However, no matter how you look at it reeks of bullshit: Either Palpatine is "over the hill" or R2 is the best code-splicer the galaxy has to offer (and then one has to wonder, what the NR needs people like Ghent for)

[Winston Blake]

Maybe the droids were, um, holding on too tight for Obi-Wan to push them off? Obi-Wan has lots of examples of not using his powers in situations where he really should (didn't break handcuffs in AOTC arena with TK, infamous skirmish with Jango Fett, not using superspeed in Theed core hallways). This is just another one, albeit harder to justify.

For the handcuffs, i'd say that Dooku made sure they were special anti-Jedi solid metal ones (or something). We see Jedi apply wide-area forces to objects, but not enough stress to shatter things.

At Theed, the current rationalisation for that is that if he ran too fast he wouldn't have had time to stop if the energy gates suddenly closed. He only just managed to skid to a halt running at normal-speed.

Jedi seem to use TK sparingly for some reason, but i think its typically when putting concentration and effort into it wouldn't leave them vulnerable e.g. Maul and Dooku's finishing moves against an enraged/amputated foe, Obi-wan trying to stay aware of new blaster fire from Slave I (plausible?), when the opponent is far away (Maul opening the door, Obi-wan grabbing his saber on Kamino) or against multiple negligible threats (TPM battledroids, Geonosians).

Taking his mind and hand off the controls to wipe away some buzzdroids would probably have left him vulnerable (perhaps Jedi have tried it in the past and then been shot down).

[Vympel]

For the handcuffs, i'd say that Dooku made sure they were special anti-Jedi solid metal ones (or something). We see Jedi apply wide-area forces to objects, but not enough stress to shatter things.

Or that Obi-Wan is simply not powerful enough- Dooku had no problem crushing the column later in the movie, causing it to collpase, to say nothing of Obi-Wan himself in RotS crushing the supports of the container he used to drop the Battledroids. With that level of strength he should've easily been able to crush those handcuffs like so much paper.

At Theed, the current rationalisation for that is that if he ran too fast he wouldn't have had time to stop if the energy gates suddenly closed. He only just managed to skid to a halt running at normal-speed.

I would've thought him being tired from fighting Maul was a better one. We know from the RotS novelization that the reserve of force energy a Jedi has is not infinite.

[Qwerty 42]

At Theed, the current rationalisation for that is that if he ran too fast he wouldn't have had time to stop if the energy gates suddenly closed. He only just managed to skid to a halt running at normal-speed.

I would've thought him being tired from fighting Maul was a better one. We know from the RotS novelization that the reserve of force energy a Jedi has is not infinite.

The TPM novel mentions that Maul was hindering Obi-Wan's ability to use the Force, also.

[Winston Blake]

For the handcuffs, i'd say that Dooku made sure they were special anti-Jedi solid metal ones (or something). We see Jedi apply wide-area forces to objects, but not enough stress to shatter things.

Or that Obi-Wan is simply not powerful enough- Dooku had no problem crushing the column later in the movie, causing it to collpase, to say nothing of Obi-Wan himself in RotS crushing the supports of the container he used to drop the Battledroids. With that level of strength he should've easily been able to crush those handcuffs like so much paper.

Damn that's right, i really should've realised that. I was going to mention some kind of strong anti-Jedi cuff material (perhaps warship armour? also cf the earlier special 'energy shackles'), but then there's the fact the chain was split by an acklay thrust, and should've been easy to Force-break. Still, i wouldn't have expected such a great difference in ability between Obi-wan and Dooku/Future-Obiwan.

We also have to wonder why he didn't Force-crush the acklay's brain instead of trying to spear it. Anakin still used Force-powers, but he was busy using his beast to save Padme. Perhaps Dooku did something to 'drain' Obi-wan earlier, like some kind of "Now you will witness the true power of the Dark Side" Force-anal, Pulp Fiction style.

At Theed, the current rationalisation for that is that if he ran too fast he wouldn't have had time to stop if the energy gates suddenly closed. He only just managed to skid to a halt running at normal-speed.

I would've thought him being tired from fighting Maul was a better one. We know from the RotS novelization that the reserve of force energy a Jedi has is not infinite.

First i've heard of it (outside the JK games), but that would also be backed up by the fact he just did a huge leap beforehand. Maybe both happened.

[Noble Ire]

We also have to wonder why he didn't Force-crush the acklay's brain instead of trying to spear it.

Jedi seem adverse to physically manipulating the internal structure of an opponent in a damaging way, even animals. Fear of the dark side and all that. Besides, I think Obi might have been too busy avoiding it's strikes to get a clear hold on its brain (alien biology might also make it more difficult.)