Tanks vs. Mechs: A Real Challenge

[Vympel]

The Mech forces have access to an assload of nukes. They probably win.

However, it is somewhat telling that the Mech advocates need to give the enourmously larger and more expensive (and therefore fewer for given resources) Mechs numerical parity with dirt-cheap T-90s, and moreover toss nukes into the mix, on the Mech side only.

Is someone suffering from penis envy?

Hehehehheheh. It's basically concession accepted they can't win without WMD.

[Kuja]

Can someone give me a clear explanation of what the fuck this goddamned particle of the week for Gundam is?

First I hear it affects radar, then IR, then blah blah blah...if that's true
then how the fuck do Gundams stay the fuck up without falling over
without advanced computer correcting stabilizers to keep them upright?

Grrr...the best explanation was on GundamProject and that site's gone (dammit). My scatterbrained attempt:

Minovsky particles were discovered by a doctor of the same name, who obserevd "something anomolous" during an experiment involving nuclear radiation. His experiments led to the deveopment Minovsky physics.
Minovsky particles utterly assrape any comm/scanning/transmitting system and pretty much reduce all fighting to line of sight. Basic stuff like cameras and wires are unaffected.

That's the best I can do with the most expansive Gundam sight gone forever and all my material three hours away.

[Sea Skimmer]

The Mech forces have access to an assload of nukes. They probably win.

However, it is somewhat telling that the Mech advocates need to give the enourmously larger and more expensive (and therefore fewer for given resources) Mechs numerical parity with dirt-cheap T-90s, and moreover toss nukes into the mix, on the Mech side only.

Is someone suffering from penis envy?

Hehehehheheh. It's basically concession accepted they can't win without WMD.

And even then the Russians can still hit back in kind from the fire team level on up.

[Sea Skimmer]

Can someone give me a clear explanation of what the fuck this goddamned particle of the week for Gundam is?

First I hear it affects radar, then IR, then blah blah blah...if that's true
then how the fuck do Gundams stay the fuck up without falling over
without advanced computer correcting stabilizers to keep them upright?

Grrr...the best explanation was on GundamProject and that site's gone (dammit). My scatterbrained attempt:

Minovsky particles were discovered by a doctor of the same name, who obserevd "something anomolous" during an experiment involving nuclear radiation. His experiments led to the deveopment Minovsky physics.
Minovsky particles utterly assrape any comm/scanning/transmitting system and pretty much reduce all fighting to line of sight. Basic stuff like cameras and wires are unaffected.

That's the best I can do with the most expansive Gundam sight gone forever and all my material three hours away.

Then why would a computer be disrupted if it doesn’t effect hard lines?

[Kuja]

Then why would a computer be disrupted if it doesn’t effect hard lines?

I shouldn't have said that. My bad.

[Sea Skimmer]

Then why would a computer be disrupted if it doesn’t effect hard lines?

I shouldn't have said that. My bad.

All right then.

[Kuja]

Let me clarify what I meant: power in a comp doesn't matter, because the Min. particles will scatter anything it transmits to without a direct link.

[Hotfoot]

Let me clarify what I meant: power in a comp doesn't matter, because the Min. particles will scatter anything it transmits to without a direct link.

Er, problem with that. LADAR (and laser guided stuff) will still work. We've already established that, at the very least, the visible spectrum of light is allowed to get through the interferance unhindered. Why other frequencies of the EM spectrum have a hard time seems a touch strange, but then this reeks of a PPD anyway.

[Sea Skimmer]

Let me clarify what I meant: power in a comp doesn't matter, because the Min. particles will scatter anything it transmits to without a direct link.

Then the only thing it can effect is the Russian radios, and even then it's creating a double blind for the mecha as well. Hell the Russians still carry around signal flags in expectation of having their radios jammed or needing to maintain total silence for days.

[Kuja]

Let me clarify what I meant: power in a comp doesn't matter, because the Min. particles will scatter anything it transmits to without a direct link.

Er, problem with that. LADAR (and laser guided stuff) will still work. We've already established that, at the very least, the visible spectrum of light is allowed to get through the interferance unhindered.

I would agree with you, except that it's banged into the heads of anyone who reads the Gundam mauals: MPs block EVERYTHING but point-and-shoot and heat-tracking. Apparently, laser guidence has also been rendered useless.

Why other frequencies of the EM spectrum have a hard time seems a touch strange, but then this reeks of a PPD anyway.

LOL, true, but you gotta deal with it.

[SWPIGWANG]

Laser = visible light

and laser weapons still works....

[Kuja]

Laser = visible light

and laser weapons still works....

Where is a laser-guided weapon seen ANYWHERE in Gundam?

The closest I've seen was a dumbfired nuclear warhead that was intended to come down less than five miles away.

[Sea Skimmer]

Laser = visible light

and laser weapons still works....

Where is a laser-guided weapon seen ANYWHERE in Gundam?

The closest I've seen was a dumbfired nuclear warhead that was intended to come down less than five miles away.

Where is a Good tank design seen? Nowhere. Just because we don't see something doesn't mean it won't work.

[SWPIGWANG]

uh how about the tanks in Victory Gundam with their beam cannon and stuff?

[Kuja]

Where is a Good tank design seen? Nowhere. Just because we don't see something doesn't mean it won't work.

Actually, the Type-61 is a pretty kickass design. Think M1/A1 with two barrels.

uh how about the tanks in Victory Gundam with their beam cannon and stuff?

Are you responding to me or Sea Skimmer?

Gundam beam weaponry does not = lasers.

[Sea Skimmer]

Where is a Good tank design seen? Nowhere. Just because we don't see something doesn't mean it won't work.

Actually, the Type-61 is a pretty kickass design. Think M1/A1 with two barrels.

No its not, two main gun barrels indicates massive stupidity of design in its self. This was addressed in the orginal mecha tank thread. The weak turret ring doesnt do much for it either.

[Vympel]

Actually, the Type-61 is a pretty kickass design. Think M1/A1 with two barrels.

No, that's by definition an idiotic design- two barrels is utter idiocy.

[SWPIGWANG]

I'm responding to the idea that Gundam have no good tank designs.


but it is not like anyone watchs v-gudanm so....

[Kuja]

No its not, two main gun barrels indicates massive stupidity of design in its self. This was addressed in the orginal mecha tank thread. The weak turret ring doesnt do much for it either.

Oh. *shrug* that shows you how much I know about tanks.

[Typhonis 1]

Actually depends on wht the barrels are if its twin 120mm yes its stupid but if its a 120mm and a 20mm it isnt as bad

[Kuja]

The barrels are the same size. I don't remember what size.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Actually any decent AP round will go through a FAKK or a Land Mate (The polymere is very thin from the screne and comic art. So all they OP for really needs is some FMJ, And Some RPG=7's as all of the above really can't handle any serious amounts of squad or platoon level infantry fire power.

Don't make me remind you of what a WP or Thermite Grenade would do to the central nervious system of a FAKK pilot. (Hint: Heat+Superconductive material wired to the brain of the pilot)

[MKSheppard]

Let me clarify what I meant: power in a comp doesn't matter, because the Min. particles will scatter anything it transmits to without a direct link.

Ah, Concession accepted. The Zeon nukes will NOT WORK, or will
be of ridiculously low yeild due to being inefficient U-235 gun
type nukes.

A implosion type nuke, which all modern nukes are, requires a lot
of sensitive ELECTRONIC parts....so your Minkovosky particles
would render your own nukes to inert lumps of radioactive metal

[SAMAS]

First of all, no nukes for either side. I forgot about those. Sorry.

Actually any decent AP round will go through a FAKK or a Land Mate (The polymere is very thin from the screne and comic art. So all they OP for really needs is some FMJ, And Some RPG=7's as all of the above really can't handle any serious amounts of squad or platoon level infantry fire power.

The problem is the fact that the Mecha side has an equal amount of infantry, suppourted by their smaller Mecha.

Here's a rundown of the mecha forces.

Fuchikomas -- Small quad-legged mecha seen in the Ghost in the Shell manga. Standard armament is a 15mm autocannnon or grenade launcher, and a pair of 6mm machineguns. It can also have heavier weapons mounted on it's sides or rear. The Fuchikoma is characterized by it's AI, it's ability to climb walls, and it's thermoptic cloaking system.

Geuges-D Landmates -- a Roughly human-shaped mecha about 8-9 feet tall, it straddles the line between a suit of power armor and a full-sized mech. Typically armed with machineguns, flamethrowers, rockets, and other large hand-held weapons, the Geuges-D is characterized by it's four arms, Hermes antigravity/flight system, and sensor antennas that allow them to look around corners and track heat signatures.

FAKES -- Medium-sized Mecha from the Gasaraki anime. About as tall, probably a little more, as an M1 Abrams tank. Armed with a Grenade launcher, and often equipped with other weapons such as autocannons, drills, and Anti-tank missiles.

Mobile Suits -- The much loved, and reviled, giant mecha from the Gundam saga. Armed with a variety of weapons ranging from oversized machineguns and grenades, to Bazookas and massive beam weapons(and yes, when I said Federation and Zeon, I meant beyond the One Year War, too).

Type 74 Hover Truck -- A fast utility vehicle. Simply armed with a 20mm vulcan, this vehicle is fully equipped to suppourt a Federal Mobile Suit team with communications and sonar detection.

[Darth Wong]

First of all, no nukes for either side. I forgot about those. Sorry.

Thank you. I just found this thread, but I was amazed and perturbed to see how mecha fans were instantly resorting to WMD in a fucking URBAN ENVIRONMENT. When you fight for control of territory, you don't murder everybody living in that territory. If they wanted to reduce NYC to a radioactive wasteland, they could have simply used a big strategic nuke instead of sending in infantry(!) and armour to do so (and suffer the consequences).

Here's a rundown of the mecha forces.

Fuchikomas -- Small quad-legged mecha seen in the Ghost in the Shell manga. Standard armament is a 15mm autocannnon or grenade launcher, and a pair of 6mm machineguns. It can also have heavier weapons mounted on it's sides or rear. The Fuchikoma is characterized by it's AI, it's ability to climb walls, and it's thermoptic cloaking system.

Could you apply a number to "small" in this context? What would be the use of this thing? Unless it's man-sized it can't get into buildings, and its armament is too weak to take out a tank. It seems to me that it would be easily spotted due to its size, and would be picked off sides of buildings by Hind fire.

Geuges-D Landmates -- a Roughly human-shaped mecha about 8-9 feet tall, it straddles the line between a suit of power armor and a full-sized mech. Typically armed with machineguns, flamethrowers, rockets, and other large hand-held weapons, the Geuges-D is characterized by it's four arms, Hermes antigravity/flight system, and sensor antennas that allow them to look around corners and track heat signatures.

Again, this looks like an anti-personnel unit, not an anti-tank unit. Heavy .50cal sniper rifle will take it out, judging by its size. If it stays inside buildings, its weight and size will always make its presence known before it shows up, so it will never get the first shot off.

FAKES -- Medium-sized Mecha from the Gasaraki anime. About as tall, probably a little more, as an M1 Abrams tank. Armed with a Grenade launcher, and often equipped with other weapons such as autocannons, drills, and Anti-tank missiles.

So it's as dangerous to a tank as an infantryman is, but it's far more expensive and much easier to spot for a Hind than an infantryman. I'm still not seeing why they designed these units the way they did. They seem like niches that didn't need filling.

Mobile Suits -- The much loved, and reviled, giant mecha from the Gundam saga. Armed with a variety of weapons ranging from oversized machineguns and grenades, to Bazookas and massive beam weapons(and yes, when I said Federation and Zeon, I meant beyond the One Year War, too).

We've gone over this, although NYC is a lousy environment for armour warfare.

Type 74 Hover Truck -- A fast utility vehicle. Simply armed with a 20mm vulcan, this vehicle is fully equipped to suppourt a Federal Mobile Suit team with communications and sonar detection.

Why would you use a Vulcan on a truck? How much ammo can it carry?

It seems to me that the Hinds and infantry would dominate this engagement.