TheDarkling wrote:
They did open portals outside of the northwest passage and did exactly what I describe them doing to the imps.
No, they didn't. If they had an ounce of the capability you describe, the Borg wouldn't have taken 5 months to defeat, and by the time Voyager showed up, there'd be a lot more empty space than a narrow corridor.
8472 did use the tactic I describe - we (or rather those of us who have seen what we debate about) saw it.
They would use this tactic more often aganist an enemy they may not be able to beat in a stand up fight.
Make that will not be able to beat in a standup fight. You have not shown that the ability to open portals exists anywhere outside of a portion of the DQ.
We have nothing stating that Hirogen vessels are that fast - so who was chasing him? The Borg and yu expect me to beliueve that he didnt run into a portal area between where viyager find him and Borg space?
No my idea of people opening portals is supported everywhere they are mentioned, Janeway "Seven im ordering you to open a portal", Torres is working on opening a portal, The Borg tell seven rto open a portal and so on - NEVER do we hear anything to indicate they have to find portals.
If I said they have to 'find' portals then I didn't make myself clear. I said that a portal can't be opened EVERYWHERE.
Chakotay did state the Borg had millions of ships and Janeway didnt say "dont be stupid they only have a few thousand" Chakotay was in a position to know, he may of being over exagerating but it was a riugh figure from someone in a position to know.
Ah so now the absurdity of your position comes into light. Dialog overrides visuals in your wacky world.
As for vague - answer the question (not that you would know) do 8472 open portals outside of the northwest passage and attack the Borg in the manner I describe (everyone here knows they did - its the famous PK incident).
You dont even know this its obvious that you have no clue what your talking about and are simply basing you facts on hearsay (probably because Wong in thread you linked disagreed (I didnt have the other evidence I have now) so thinking Wong cant be wrong you think my evidence mustn't be upto scratch or else he would have admitted defeat).
How many times have I said that whether they open up portals outside of the region of the NW passage is irrelevant? I'm getting SICK AND TIRED of having to repeat this. What is the huge fucking comprehension problem between 'their ability to open portals is limited' and 'they can only open portals in the north west passage' do you not understand for FUCKS SAKE?!
As for Wong, if you wish to debate him about it, by all means go ahead. Right now, you are debating me. Take your snide little character attacks elsewhere.
Why isnt it important that they open portals outside of the northwest passage?.... oh yes of course because everywhere else has the magical portals you ascribe.
Your strawman distortions of my position fool noone. All I have said is that their ability to open portals is limtied to a portion of the Delta Quadrant. I haven't said that the portals are pre-existing and have to be found.
I have shown enough evidence to point to the conclusion that the area of intersection is present in 3 quadrants you think its just the northwest passage spanning upto the point where we see Voyager get attacked.
So in this parapgraph you state my position somewhat more correctly but in the previous one you distort it? Right.
1- Beta Quadrant: well they said 'other side of the galaxy' so if I take such vague dialog to its absurd conclusion, then of course S8472 has pan galactic range and power!!!!
2- Alpha Quadrant: even more laughable- they create a simulation and threaten that it will 'be real' in days or weeks (interesting ... quite a bit of differene between weeks and days isn't there ..... I wonder if they were talking out of their ass)
I agree with your speculation I however dont think their telepathy is limitless as you seem to.
Not limitless. Just capable of calling for help.
We dont know how they got the database (from the Borg or did they go to the AQ and nick one - noway to be sure).
As for the database having a recreation of San fran in it - if it doesnt it means they had to monitor earth directly which only aids my theory, although it probably does given holodecks can often recreate many places (Picard can name a cafe in Paris and have it appear).
I wasnt assuming this as evidence for portals in the AQ going for the other conclusion but do as you wish (again you have seen the show right?).
I am aware of what basically happens in that episode. Firstly, do they say they have a database? Secondly, the notion that they would go to the AQ to go to the trouble of creating a simulation of Starfleet right down to the GROUNDSKEEPER is utterly absurd- it is far more likely they got it from the minds of the Voyager crew- who are more likely to remember such insignificant details than a military record is.
I never said they have uber power and I have neevr even said that the portal intersection spans more than half the galaxy (approx) but I see no reason to disbelieve they have that ability just that I cant prove it due to having no evidence.
I merely contend the ability to open up portals anywhere.
No you stated that a ship doesnt go orders of magnitude slower when damaged - I provided an example of where it happened and you complained because my example was trek but when dealing with treak is not a trek example more worthy - you were beatne on that one and you... well no you probably dont know it.
You claim they are very fast. The difference between Warp 2 and Warp 8 is not orders of magnitude. It was moving at 10,000LY in 8 months if what you said is correct. How much faster do you think it is undamaged? How many orders of magnitude?
The simulation will be real soon enough - its clearly in reference to when they will be on earth, and Chakotay (under cover in an 8472 training camp) is asking an 8472 spy about the mission, she harps on about San Fran and then says the simulation will be real enough soon, Chakotay asks how soon and she responds "weeks possibly days, whenever they think we are ready" its clear shes talking about the amount of time before she is going to be on earth undercover(I shouldnt really have to explain you know).
Chakotay was talking to an 8472 spy? What is the rank of this spy? What does she(it?) no?
Shadow ripoffs - please the shadows were well thought out and had a purpose 8472 are a shoddy alien of the week.
I suppose you equate them because they both have bio ships - great reason.
Also concession accepted on the weapon.
I didn't equate them. I called them ripoffs. As in poor imitations.
No, I'm afraid I accept your concession, as you are clearly willing to accept whatever inane idea spouted by some Feddie moron without seeing it first.
You may respond but the fact is you avoided proving what I asked you to prove (you didnt even bring forth any evidence but since you have nothing to work with im not surprised) and yuo didnt answer the questions I asked even though all that was required was a simply yes or no.
Darkstar style declaration of victory.
With asking you to provide proof and nswer questions both of whch you were unable to I think its clear you have failed to make your point either due to bad debating skill, lack of understanding of the subject matter or just because you are wrong (probably at least 2 of those if not all three).
The Black Night always triumphs ....
Oh and the cult thing - that hurts really, I speak out and that makes me a cultist gee the pain (also un-original) just because Im pro trek doesnt make me insane or a monster but I suppose you wont grasp that distinction since its natual to fear that which is alien (and since pro trek is in the vast minority its obvious which side is going to take fire).
Your record in S8472 debates speaks for itself. You are clearly irrational.
Vympel: I dont know but oherwise they must have traveled to earth (I imagine it would be on record though since data could pretty much track anyone down he wanted to on the Ent-D), its probably in employment records and maybe in their to help with the holodeck recreations.
They dont have the telepathy you need them to have otherwise they would know Voyager was alone and that Janeway wasn't lying to them etc.
Proposition 1: They traveled to Earth and obtained employment records.
Response: ROFL
Proposition 2: They don't have telepathy otherwise they would know Voyager was alone and that Janeway wasn't lying to them
Response: This is attached to the implict assumption that S8472 aren't a bunch of snivelling cowards.
and the fact that you believe you know more about borg weapony than the borg disturbs me.
ROTFLMAO. How is it known that they can resist ALL known forms of Energy?!?!? How does resistance to Borg weapons translate in your sorry excuse for a brain to resistance to ALL known forms of energy? WHY do you Trekkies insist on taking a known ability and extrapolating it to infinity? 
