I'm afraid of my government

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Dominus Atheos
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3903
Joined: 2005-09-15 09:41pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

I'm afraid of my government

Post by Dominus Atheos »

SouthCoastToday.com wrote:NEW BEDFORD -- A senior at UMass Dartmouth was visited by federal agents two months ago, after he requested a copy of Mao Tse-Tung's tome on Communism called "The Little Red Book."
Two history professors at UMass Dartmouth, Brian Glyn Williams and Robert Pontbriand, said the student told them he requested the book through the UMass Dartmouth library's interlibrary loan program.
The student, who was completing a research paper on Communism for Professor Pontbriand's class on fascism and totalitarianism, filled out a form for the request, leaving his name, address, phone number and Social Security number. He was later visited at his parents' home in New Bedford by two agents of the Department of Homeland Security, the professors said.
The professors said the student was told by the agents that the book is on a "watch list," and that his background, which included significant time abroad, triggered them to investigate the student further.
"I tell my students to go to the direct source, and so he asked for the official Peking version of the book," Professor Pontbriand said. "Apparently, the Department of Homeland Security is monitoring inter-library loans, because that's what triggered the visit, as I understand it."
Although The Standard-Times knows the name of the student, he is not coming forward because he fears repercussions should his name become public. He has not spoken to The Standard-Times.
The professors had been asked to comment on a report that President Bush had authorized the National Security Agency to spy on as many as 500 people at any given time since 2002 in this country.
The eavesdropping was apparently done without warrants.
The Little Red Book, is a collection of quotations and speech excerpts from Chinese leader Mao Tse-Tung.
In the 1950s and '60s, during the Cultural Revolution in China, it was required reading. Although there are abridged versions available, the student asked for a version translated directly from the original book.
The student told Professor Pontbriand and Dr. Williams that the Homeland Security agents told him the book was on a "watch list." They brought the book with them, but did not leave it with the student, the professors said.
Dr. Williams said in his research, he regularly contacts people in Afghanistan, Chechnya and other Muslim hot spots, and suspects that some of his calls are monitored.
"My instinct is that there is a lot more monitoring than we think," he said.
Dr. Williams said he had been planning to offer a course on terrorism next semester, but is reconsidering, because it might put his students at risk.
"I shudder to think of all the students I've had monitoring al-Qaeda Web sites, what the government must think of that," he said. "Mao Tse-Tung is completely harmless."
I remember when people from other countries would always say "Why are you so afraid to let your government have any personal information on you, even when it's for the purpose of protecting you or saving your life? It's not like your government is out to get you."

Well, Yes it is, our government is seriously out to get us.
User avatar
Gil Hamilton
Tipsy Space Birdie
Posts: 12962
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:47pm
Contact:

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Wow, now all we need is for the student having to sign a form asking if his is, or has ever been, a member of the Communist party.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet

"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert

"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
User avatar
Uraniun235
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13772
Joined: 2002-09-12 12:47am
Location: OREGON
Contact:

Post by Uraniun235 »

But, but, but our European friends tell us we have nothing to fear from a strong government! Whatever could be the problem?
darthdavid
Pathetic Attention Whore
Posts: 5470
Joined: 2003-02-17 12:04pm
Location: Bat Country!

Post by darthdavid »

Sometimes I really hate this land that I live in.
User avatar
SecondToDie
Padawan Learner
Posts: 241
Joined: 2005-06-19 02:45pm
Location: USA

Post by SecondToDie »

Gil Hamilton wrote:Wow, now all we need is for the student having to sign a form asking if his is, or has ever been, a member of the Communist party.
David Horowitz is working on that.
User avatar
wilfulton
Jedi Knight
Posts: 976
Joined: 2005-04-28 10:19pm

Post by wilfulton »

Who was it that said: "A little luck and a little government are essential in life, but only a fool trusts either." ?
Gork the Ork sez: Speak softly and carry a Big Shoota!
User avatar
wilfulton
Jedi Knight
Posts: 976
Joined: 2005-04-28 10:19pm

Post by wilfulton »

EDIT

Ahh, praise Google, it would PJ O'Rourke.
Gork the Ork sez: Speak softly and carry a Big Shoota!
User avatar
Beowulf
The Patrician
Posts: 10619
Joined: 2002-07-04 01:18am
Location: 32ULV

Post by Beowulf »

Gil Hamilton wrote:Wow, now all we need is for the student having to sign a form asking if his is, or has ever been, a member of the Communist party.
I did have to sign a form asking if I am, or have ever been, a member of the Communist Party. :)
"preemptive killing of cops might not be such a bad idea from a personal saftey[sic] standpoint..." --Keevan Colton
"There's a word for bias you can't see: Yours." -- William Saletan
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28812
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Post by Broomstick »

There's a perverse side of me that says "Let's have everyone order a copy of The Little Red Book through inter-library loan and watch the government have a melt-down"
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
User avatar
Jason von Evil
Sol Badguy
Posts: 8103
Joined: 2002-11-29 02:13am
Location: Writer of the fictions
Contact:

Post by Jason von Evil »

Reminds me of this episode of Good Times, where one of the characters sends away for some commie pamplets from Cuba as part of a report he was doing. This causes the FBI to investigate him and his family and causes his dad to lose his job (he gets it back at the end of the episode).

And someone needs to tell the FBI that the Cold War's over. We won.
"It was the hooker rationing that finally drove people over the edge." - Mike on coup in Thailand.
Image
User avatar
Sephirius
Jedi Master
Posts: 1093
Joined: 2005-03-14 11:34pm

Post by Sephirius »

Jason von Evil wrote:Reminds me of this episode of Good Times, where one of the characters sends away for some commie pamplets from Cuba as part of a report he was doing. This causes the FBI to investigate him and his family and causes his dad to lose his job (he gets it back at the end of the episode).

And someone needs to tell the FBI that the Cold War's over. We won.
yeah, but china gives the US gov't the heebie jeebies
Saying smaller engines are better is like saying you don't want huge muscles because you wouldn't fit through the door. So what? You can bench 500. Fuck doors. - MadCat360
Image
User avatar
avoidingthepo
Youngling
Posts: 50
Joined: 2005-02-16 12:37pm
Location: jersey shore
Contact:

Post by avoidingthepo »

i would've thought that by now, a college student reading up on communism wouldnt be all that threatening, as most would graduated, get jobs, and grow out of it.

unless when it said that this student had traveled abroad alot, that includes 6 years living in china as an aid to some government official.
=NUB=

Deceived by the devils decisions, forced into a slave
Death before dishonour for those men who were brave
Shot and sent to their grave, can't awaken, it's too late
Everything's been taken, I'm shaken, family, history, the making
User avatar
Sir Sirius
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2975
Joined: 2002-12-09 12:15pm
Location: 6 hr 45 min R.A. and -16 degrees 43 minutes declination

Post by Sir Sirius »

What the hell is with this American obsession with communism?

Incidentally you can download a pdf version of Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung for free from here.
Image
User avatar
Aeolus
Jedi Master
Posts: 1497
Joined: 2003-04-12 03:09am
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Post by Aeolus »

Sir Sirius wrote:What the hell is with this American obsession with communism?

Incidentally you can download a pdf version of Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung for free from here.
Communism is seen by many Americans as the ultimate evil. The antithesis of every American value. But federal agents checking up on someone because they asked for a copy of the little red book is insane.
For I dipt into the future, far as human eye could see,
Saw the Vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be;
Saw the heavens fill with commerce, argosies of magic sails,
Pilots of the purple twilight dropping down with costly bales;
Heard the heavens fill with shouting, and there rain'd a ghastly dew
From the nations' airy navies grappling in the central blue;
User avatar
Grasscutter
Padawan Learner
Posts: 445
Joined: 2005-03-24 09:24pm

Post by Grasscutter »

avoidingthepo wrote:i would've thought that by now, a college student reading up on communism wouldnt be all that threatening, as most would graduated, get jobs, and grow out of it.

unless when it said that this student had traveled abroad alot, that includes 6 years living in china as an aid to some government official.
We don't even know if this student is pro-communism or not. He was doing a report on communism for a course, and the book was going to be read as research for the report.
User avatar
TheDarkling
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4768
Joined: 2002-07-04 10:34am

Post by TheDarkling »

Uraniun235 wrote:But, but, but our European friends tell us we have nothing to fear from a strong government! Whatever could be the problem?
Maybe your government really doesn't know where to draw the line but for some reason the rest of the west seems to do ok.
User avatar
Ender
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11323
Joined: 2002-07-30 11:12pm
Location: Illinois

Post by Ender »

TheDarkling wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:But, but, but our European friends tell us we have nothing to fear from a strong government! Whatever could be the problem?
Maybe your government really doesn't know where to draw the line but for some reason the rest of the west seems to do ok.
bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

I'm sorry, its just that its so rare here to see someone actually try to make such a blatently false claim... I mean come on, you are trying to get us to ignore everything that went on in Europe from the 30's to the 90's in order to claim that your strong governments know where to draw the line when it comes to citizen's rights. Even a 6 year old knows you are full of shit.
بيرني كان سيفوز
*
Nuclear Navy Warwolf
*
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
*
ipsa scientia potestas est
User avatar
TheDarkling
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4768
Joined: 2002-07-04 10:34am

Post by TheDarkling »

Ender wrote: I'm sorry, its just that its so rare here to see someone actually try to make such a blatently false claim... I mean come on, you are trying to get us to ignore everything that went on in Europe from the 30's to the 90's in order to claim that your strong governments know where to draw the line when it comes to citizen's rights. Even a 6 year old knows you are full of shit.
The west includes more than just Western Europe.

However what so disastrously bad has gone on in western Europe in the 90's, or the 80’s for that matter (the few remaining western European dictatorships being on their way out in the 70’s)?

Comparing events in the 30s with modern governments (most Western European governments haven't got continuity with their pre war forms) is like judging the US governments race relations based upon the time pre civil rights movement (or even pre civil war depending upon exactly where we are placing the arbitrary statute of limitations on the comparisons).

But if you would care to show me the massive damage done (since the 30’s, for some reason) to the life of the average citizen of Britain, Australia, Canada or New Zealand because they had bigger government (than the US) then go ahead.
ClaysGhost
Jedi Knight
Posts: 613
Joined: 2002-09-13 12:41pm

Post by ClaysGhost »

I've got a copy of Mao's little red book, but HM government isn't interested in oppressing me over it :(

But it does have a cracking portrait of the chairman protected by a piece of tissue paper :)
(3.13, 1.49, -1.01)
User avatar
Plekhanov
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3991
Joined: 2004-04-01 11:09pm
Location: Mercia

Post by Plekhanov »

Uraniun235 wrote:But, but, but our European friends tell us we have nothing to fear from a strong government! Whatever could be the problem?
When do they keep on telling you this?
Sephirius wrote:
Jason von Evil wrote:And someone needs to tell the FBI that the Cold War's over. We won.
yeah, but china gives the US gov't the heebie jeebies
In that case then somebody should tell the US gov that China has pretty much dropped the economic aspects of communism (which was afterall the only aspect of communism that the US gov ever really had a problem with) & is just maintaining the vicious dictatorship aspects of the communist system (which the US gov has never really had trouble dealing with anyway).
User avatar
Glocksman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7233
Joined: 2002-09-03 06:43pm
Location: Mr. Five by Five

Post by Glocksman »

I hate to resurrect an old thread, but this story turned out to be bullshit
Student should be ashamed

Thumbs down for the UMass student who lied to professors and The Standard-Times about being visited by federal agents after he ordered a copy of Mao Tse Tung's Little Red Book through the inter-library loan system. This bogus story went around the nation and gave the public a false impression of our government at a time whenour government is under intense pressure to defend the homeland from terrorism and does not need the public to turn against it.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

Oderint dum metuant
User avatar
Molyneux
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7186
Joined: 2005-03-04 08:47am
Location: Long Island

Post by Molyneux »

...well, fuck.
I am still fairly proud to consider myself a SMALL-GOVERNMENT conservative, however; the fact that that kind of thing sounds plausible is a symptom of the condition our government is currently in - that is to say, poor.

Goddamn Bush pseudo-cons...
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
User avatar
BlkbrryTheGreat
BANNED
Posts: 2658
Joined: 2002-11-04 07:48pm
Location: Philadelphia PA

Post by BlkbrryTheGreat »

Aeolus wrote:
Sir Sirius wrote:What the hell is with this American obsession with communism?

Incidentally you can download a pdf version of Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung for free from here.
Communism is seen by many Americans as the ultimate evil. The antithesis of every American value. But federal agents checking up on someone because they asked for a copy of the little red book is insane.
Gee... that's because it IS the antithesis of every American value. Indiviudual Rights vs Communal "Rights", Private property vs Government Ownership, Pursit of Happiness vs Duty to the Community, Freedom of Speech vs Government Censorship of Ideas.
User avatar
Surlethe
HATES GRADING
Posts: 12267
Joined: 2004-12-29 03:41pm

Post by Surlethe »

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:
Aeolus wrote:
Sir Sirius wrote:What the hell is with this American obsession with communism?

Incidentally you can download a pdf version of Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung for free from here.
Communism is seen by many Americans as the ultimate evil. The antithesis of every American value. But federal agents checking up on someone because they asked for a copy of the little red book is insane.
Gee... that's because it IS the antithesis of every American value. Indiviudual Rights vs Communal "Rights", Private property vs Government Ownership, Pursit of Happiness vs Duty to the Community, Freedom of Speech vs Government Censorship of Ideas.
There are one or two aspects of Communism which are not antithetical to American values: take its fundamental concern with the everyday worker, for instance.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
Post Reply