A few questions/comments about the main site

[Omega-185]

I have a few questions and comments about the main site.

1. Acording to the sites own canon policy the TM are non-canon but they are used quite frequently. Why?

2. The site claims that the Federation has no planetary sheilds, that is clearly false. In "Whom Gods Destroy"[TOS] the asylum world Elba II was explicitly protected by a planetary shield and there was also on in "Dagger of the Mind"[TOS]. Not to mention that in "Year of Hell" [VOY] Chakotay says that even more primitive cultures should have planetary sheilds that they can modify to repel the Temporal weapon. Finally Darth Wong has claimed that Star Wars theatre sheilds could be linked to form a planetary sheild, why is that only true for Star Wars?

3. Why is a lot of the transporter page taken up with how inhuman transporters are?

4. Why does the Federation power generation page have a 900TW figure (taken from TNG:TM) for a galaxy class, when canon evidence in the sites own database shows that GCS can generate 30,000TW?

[Stark]

The site hasn't been updated in years. The TM was finally thrown out as a source after all the articles were written.

[Omega-185]

Then why does the canon page clearly say that only live action TV and movies and Jeri Taylor novels are canon?

[Noble Ire]

Then why does the canon page clearly say that only live action TV and movies and Jeri Taylor novels are canon?

Didn't many pro-Trek debators use elements of the TM despite their non-canon status back in the day? I assumed Wong's mention of them was to specifically rebut those arguements, canon or not.

[Ghost Rider]

I have a few questions and comments about the main site.

1. Acording to the sites own canon policy the TM are non-canon but they are used quite frequently. Why?

Because at the time, it was an easy source. It does note that canon shows there are some extreme high end estimations from the TM especially in regards to the Photon Torpedos.

2. The site claims that the Federation has no planetary sheilds, that is clearly false. In "Whom Gods Destroy"[TOS] the asylum world Elba II was explicitly protected by a planetary shield and there was also on in "Dagger of the Mind"[TOS]. Not to mention that in "Year of Hell" [VOY] Chakotay says that even more primitive cultures should have planetary sheilds that they can modify to repel the Temporal weapon. Finally Darth Wong has claimed that Star Wars theatre sheilds could be linked to form a planetary sheild, why is that only true for Star Wars?

That piece of evience should be shown to prove for yourself on Trek's side of the matter planetary shield, especially in the TNG/DS9 era, where they had multiple world bombardments on major capitals, but no signs nor any mention of planetary shields on any major world within the major powers.

3. Why is a lot of the transporter page taken up with how inhuman transporters are?

Because he wanted to push his idea of why he thingks about it.

4. Why does the Federation power generation page have a 900TW figure (taken from TNG:TM) for a galaxy class, when canon evidence in the sites own database shows that GCS can generate 30,000TW?

Note where he got one piece from and that was used at that time as the benchmark.

Also another bit of note, it has been YEARS since he's updated it, and frankly he shouldn't have to given the immense differences between the two powers.

Unless someone wants to show that Trek has been lying to viewers all this time, the general armed forces of Star Trek's universe is woefully inadequte for the original concept of the Empire vs the Federation.

[apocolypse]

Then why does the canon page clearly say that only live action TV and movies and Jeri Taylor novels are canon?

Because that's the way canon works now. However, it wasn't always defined as such.

[Noble Ire]

Then why does the canon page clearly say that only live action TV and movies and Jeri Taylor novels are canon?

Because that's the way canon works now. However, it wasn't always defined as such.

Jeri Taylor's books haven't been canon since she left ST.

[General Zod]

Then why does the canon page clearly say that only live action TV and movies and Jeri Taylor novels are canon?

Because that's the way canon works now. However, it wasn't always defined as such.

Jeri Taylor's books haven't been canon since she left ST.

Check out the latest thread about Darkstar's rants in PST. As per the latest rulings, they never were officially canon, and were only at best 'quasi-canon', since they got used on the episodes Taylor was involved in creating.

[apocolypse]

Then why does the canon page clearly say that only live action TV and movies and Jeri Taylor novels are canon?

Because that's the way canon works now. However, it wasn't always defined as such.

Jeri Taylor's books haven't been canon since she left ST.

Actually the status of Taylor's books has always been a bit odd, and I'd seen rumors before of their decanonization quite a while ago, in addition to what Zod posted. (Not sure why ST.com hasn't ever changed the policy on their site) I was thinking more about the series and movies and neglected to elaborate further on the books. Sorry for the oversight, and thanks.

[The Kernel]

1. Acording to the sites own canon policy the TM are non-canon but they are used quite frequently. Why?

In order to cover the people who use the TM, and to give a certain amount of credit to Star Trek. After all, the TM has some of the highest firepower numbers for photon torpedeos out there.

2. The site claims that the Federation has no planetary sheilds, that is clearly false. In "Whom Gods Destroy"[TOS] the asylum world Elba II was explicitly protected by a planetary shield and there was also on in "Dagger of the Mind"[TOS]. Not to mention that in "Year of Hell" [VOY] Chakotay says that even more primitive cultures should have planetary sheilds that they can modify to repel the Temporal weapon. Finally Darth Wong has claimed that Star Wars theatre sheilds could be linked to form a planetary sheild, why is that only true for Star Wars?

Because none of the planetary shields in Star Trek showed any power to withstand bombardment. The shield on Elba II could easily be cut through (Scotty was merely worried about killing everyone on the surface), the shield on the Tantalus colony was a "security screen" designed to disrupt transporters, nothing else as far as we could see. The YOH quote contains nothing about resistance to bobardment.

SW shields on the other hand can withstand momentary blasts from the Death Star and are effective at withstanding bombardment from an entire fleet.

3. Why is a lot of the transporter page taken up with how inhuman transporters are?

Because the duplicate Rikers show us that the transporter functions by killing the original version of a person, then recreating them using base matter (like a replicator).

4. Why does the Federation power generation page have a 900TW figure (taken from TNG:TM) for a galaxy class, when canon evidence in the sites own database shows that GCS can generate 30,000TW?

Because TNG has tons of conflicting remarks about GCS power generation, from as low as a single TW to as much as 30,000. Why is it you must assume that we take the most beneficial dialoge only while ignoring proven performance?

[The Kernel]

4. Why does the Federation power generation page have a 900TW figure (taken from TNG:TM) for a galaxy class, when canon evidence in the sites own database shows that GCS can generate 30,000TW?

Also to add to this, if you'll read the canon database entry, you'll notice that due to mass lightning technology, inertial dampers and all the rest of that impossible to quantify technology, the 30,000TW might be a huge overestimate. The "That's [Terrawatt power source] more than an entire ship can generate!" quote certainly supports this. But you would like to ignore that wouldn't you?

[Steel]

the quote is actually "That's more power than our entire ship can generate"

so it would be more powerful by that then any ship in the federation, not just some random tiny science vessel or a shuttle.[/b]

[Omega-185]

I have a few questions and comments about the main site.

1. Acording to the sites own canon policy the TM are non-canon but they are used quite frequently. Why?

Because at the time, it was an easy source. It does note that canon shows there are some extreme high end estimations from the TM especially in regards to the Photon Torpedos.

Fair enough.

2. The site claims that the Federation has no planetary sheilds, that is clearly false. In "Whom Gods Destroy"[TOS] the asylum world Elba II was explicitly protected by a planetary shield and there was also on in "Dagger of the Mind"[TOS]. Not to mention that in "Year of Hell" [VOY] Chakotay says that even more primitive cultures should have planetary sheilds that they can modify to repel the Temporal weapon. Finally Darth Wong has claimed that Star Wars theatre sheilds could be linked to form a planetary sheild, why is that only true for Star Wars?

That piece of evience should be shown to prove for yourself on Trek's side of the matter planetary shield, especially in the TNG/DS9 era, where they had multiple world bombardments on major capitals, but no signs nor any mention of planetary shields on any major world within the major powers.

I am interested about the "multiple world bombardments", IIRC we have we have only seen two. One in TDIC where the dominon wanted to lure the Romulans and Cardassians into a false sense of security. And the other is the breen attack on earth which we didn't see on screen and we have no idea the number of ships involed or the leangth of the attack.

3. Why is a lot of the transporter page taken up with how inhuman transporters are?

Because he wanted to push his idea of why he thingks about it.

It seems for a website based around technical information, a bit irrelevent, espeacaly since we have seen a transport from the POV of a person being transported and they remained consous throughout the whole thing.

Unless someone wants to show that Trek has been lying to viewers all this time, the general armed forces of Star Trek's universe is woefully inadequte for the original concept of the Empire vs the Federation.

I never said the Federation would be able to defeat the Empire, just that it may be a bit more powerful than the site gives it credit for.

Because none of the planetary shields in Star Trek showed any power to withstand bombardment. The shield on Elba II could easily be cut through (Scotty was merely worried about killing everyone on the surface),

Actually for the phasers to penatrate the Enterprise had at fire on the part of the shield farthest away from the shield generator, on the far side of the planet.

the shield on the Tantalus colony was a "security screen" designed to disrupt transporters, nothing else as far as we could see.

Its been a while since I have seen that episode, so I can't really comment on it.

The YOH quote contains nothing about resistance to bobardment.

What else would a shield be for other that resisting bombardment.

SW shields on the other hand can withstand momentary blasts from the Death Star and are effective at withstanding bombardment from an entire fleet.

4. Why does the Federation power generation page have a 900TW figure (taken from TNG:TM) for a galaxy class, when canon evidence in the sites own database shows that GCS can generate 30,000TW?

Because TNG has tons of conflicting remarks about GCS power generation, from as low as a single TW to as much as 30,000. Why is it you must assume that we take the most beneficial dialoge only while ignoring proven performance?

Actually I believe that there are more quotes surpoting at least a few thousand TWs than there are surporting a few TWs.

Also to add to this, if you'll read the canon database entry, you'll notice that due to mass lightning technology, inertial dampers and all the rest of that impossible to quantify technology, the 30,000TW might be a huge overestimate. The "That's [Terrawatt power source] more than an entire ship can generate!" quote certainly supports this. But you would like to ignore that wouldn't you?

Riker was referring to the comm-systems, not the entire ship. If the entire ship couldn't produce a single TW then how did they beam down through an atmosphere that needs at least a TW to penetrate?

[Vympel]

I am interested about the "multiple world bombardments", IIRC we have we have only seen two. One in TDIC where the dominon wanted to lure the Romulans and Cardassians into a false sense of security. And the other is the breen attack on earth which we didn't see on screen and we have no idea the number of ships involed or the leangth of the attack.

We've also heard numerous mentions to planetary defences and invasions in DS9, especially the Dominion War. No mention of planetary shields in any of them, remember?

It seems for a website based around technical information, a bit irrelevent, espeacaly since we have seen a transport from the POV of a person being transported and they remained consous throughout the whole thing.

That issue is discussed in the canon database.

[The Kernel]

Actually for the phasers to penatrate the Enterprise had at fire on the part of the shield farthest away from the shield generator, on the far side of the planet.

Incorrect. Scotty said they could blast through easily, but it would kill everyone in the installation to do it (not clear why, probably because of overloading the shield generator).

The far side thing was Scotty trying to cut through the Elba II shields with a narrow beam phaser blast in such a way as to slice a hole big enough for a shuttle through. He wasn't trying to overload the shields, just slice a small hole in them.

What else would a shield be for other that resisting bombardment.

Keeping transporters out? Also it would be quite useful for isolating civilian traffic. Not everyone has a ship that carries siege weapons.

Remember the Jem'Hadar security grid that protected the white facility from DS9? That's what I'm talking about. Even a beetle fighter could blast through it, but it worked great to keep out civilian traffic and transporters.

Actually I believe that there are more quotes surpoting at least a few thousand TWs than there are surporting a few TWs.

Show us please.

Riker was referring to the comm-systems, not the entire ship. If the entire ship couldn't produce a single TW then how did they beam down through an atmosphere that needs at least a TW to penetrate?

Actually Riker said that it was more power than the entire ship could generate at all.

I'm not suggesting we use the terrawatt figure, just that it's useless to use verbal figures in Star Trek because they are not internally consistant at all and there is no way to rationalize this. The only way to deal with this that doesn't involve pulling hair out is to go with what we see instead of babble.