Kirk vs. Solo

chitoryu12 · Post by **chitoryu12** » 2005-12-20 01:32pm

In a quick draw, Solo will take out Kirk before he can aim that big chrome phaser. Han filed off the iron sights on his DL-44 so that his gun wouldn't get caught in the holster again, like when a Barabel accused him of cheating at a sabaac game. The phaser will just be clearing the holster by the time Kirk has a big black scorch mark where his chest once was.

In the fist fight, Kirk may get into so many fights that it's ridiculous, but Han fights dirty. He's like me, he fights to win. Han will be sending kicks to the crotch and wrapping his hand around Kirk's neck whenever he gets the chance. Kirk always uses the same tactics of lacing his fingers into a fleshy sledgehammer and hitting you on the back. This leaves your lower body open to a kick. And remember, Han fought and beat a scout trooper in ROTJ, and those guys are trained in hand-to-hand combat.

ngc7293 · Post by **ngc7293** » 2005-12-20 11:39pm

Wasn't this a question of movies and tv shows? People are bringing out Books and such for Han, but not for Kirk.

Also, there is the weapons duel. As Lord Poe referred to in "Spectre Of The Gun", Kirk and company are given revolvers as opposed to their phasers which they are used to. I understand that Han is fast on the draw (I believe it has been said somewhere that Vader might have LET Han shoot at him), but I wonder on draw speed phaser vs Blaster. Then again, I can't think of an episode/book where Kirk had a phaser vs. pistol duel...

Other than all that, I have to agree, given the situation, Kirk's dead if he's given a heavy weapon (unless he can run away and find some bamboo!

)

Having not read any Han books recently (I read one quite a while ago, but can't remember any of it), I would have to say Kirk wins the fist fight, hands (literally) down. What I've seen on TV, Kirk is not above using what ever is available to win a fight.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-12-20 11:55pm

Wasn't this a question of movies and tv shows? People are bringing out Books and such for Han, but not for Kirk.

That's because Han's books are canon, and Kirk's aren't.

Having not read any Han books recently (I read one quite a while ago, but can't remember any of it), I would have to say Kirk wins the fist fight, hands (literally) down. What I've seen on TV, Kirk is not above using what ever is available to win a fight.

What makes you think Han do whatever is necissary?
Honestly, I think they seem fairly evenly matched as brawlers, perhaps with the edge on Han, depending upon his age.

ngc7293 · Post by **ngc7293** » 2005-12-21 12:38am

Noble Ire wrote:
That's because Han's books are canon, and Kirk's aren't.
I should have read the main page, but I read one of the other recent posts about Trek's Less Than Canon books. It's too bad that Paramount won't consider other Trek books canon. It would make some arguments more interesting.

What makes you think Han do whatever is necissary?
Honestly, I think they seem fairly evenly matched as brawlers, perhaps with the edge on Han, depending upon his age.

In shows a couple hundred years in the future, age becomes less useful for identifing who is better at what.

Fifty years ago or so, you would be right, but people like George Forman have come back to the ring to win fights that they would not have won had they done the same thing 50 years ago. A 40 year old man in the Trek era, could be just as fit as one in his late twenties.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-12-21 12:51am

Fifty years ago or so, you would be right, but people like George Forman have come back to the ring to win fights that they would not have won had they done the same thing 50 years ago. A 40 year old man in the Trek era, could be just as fit as one in his late twenties.

I was simply refering to the fact that Han might be used to brawling in his early twenties than his thirties, thus possibly effecting the outcome of a match.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2005-12-22 03:12pm

ngc7293 wrote:Having not read any Han books recently (I read one quite a while ago, but can't remember any of it), I would have to say Kirk wins the fist fight, hands (literally) down. What I've seen on TV, Kirk is not above using what ever is available to win a fight.

Well, as chitoryu12 noted,

chitoryu12 wrote:In the fist fight, Kirk may get into so many fights that it's ridiculous, but Han fights dirty. He's like me, he fights to win.

I think that when it's time for the fist fight, Han will simply draw his blaster and shoot Kirk. Is it cheating? Yes. Does Han care? No, and if you bring this up to him, you'll be looking down the barrel of his blaster.

ngc7293 · Post by **ngc7293** » 2005-12-23 12:53am

Sidewinder wrote: Well, as chitoryu12 noted,
chitoryu12 wrote:In the fist fight, Kirk may get into so many fights that it's ridiculous, but Han fights dirty. He's like me, he fights to win.
I think that when it's time for the fist fight, Han will simply draw his blaster and shoot Kirk. Is it cheating? Yes. Does Han care? No, and if you bring this up to him, you'll be looking down the barrel of his blaster.

The topic isn't about You, it's about Han and Kirk.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2005-12-23 10:28pm

chitoryu12's comment was not the crux of his or her statement. The point was that Han Solo is not above using tactics that the Marquess of Queensbury would not approve of in order to win a fight. This is, after all, the same man that shot Greedo from under the table in A New Hope. Depending on when in Solo's life the fight were to take place in, a "Kirk brawling with Solo" fist fight could easily transmogrify into a "Kirk being shot in the face by Solo at point blank range" gun fight.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2005-12-24 04:44am

Depending on when in Solo's life the fight were to take place in, a "Kirk brawling with Solo" fist fight could easily transmogrify into a "Kirk being shot in the face by Solo at point blank range" gun fight.

Doesn't a vs like this assume that, for HTH combat, both combatants are unarmed ?

Without such a clause, the vs becomes pretty much useless.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2005-12-25 11:19pm

That clause rings somewhat hollow in light of Kirk's own act of transforming a hand-to-hand fight with the Gorn into a rudimentary mortar-to-hand fight in the original series. Both characters are equally likely to make recourse to the use of an 'illegal' weapon; Solo's real advantage here lay in his greater willingness to use lethal force.

ngc7293 · Post by **ngc7293** » 2005-12-26 12:47am

Publius wrote:That clause rings somewhat hollow in light of Kirk's own act of transforming a hand-to-hand fight with the Gorn into a rudimentary mortar-to-hand fight in the original series. Both characters are equally likely to make recourse to the use of an 'illegal' weapon; Solo's real advantage here lay in his greater willingness to use lethal force.

If the Gorn episode were about Kirk facing off against an opponent with gun of some kind, then the "Solo grabs his blaster" idea might be fine. But that episode only showed that Kirk was willing to improvise against a stronger foe.

Let's say, instead of Kirk and a Gorn, it was Kirk and Solo. Both people are without their personal weapons. It starts out as a fist fight. If one breaks off because they decide they are unable to beat the other and go looking for a better weapon, fine. But they won't find a Blaster or Phaser anywhere.

Then again, if Solo had come up with the mortar (or what ever) and stunned Kirk with it, I would then agree that Solo would kill Kirk to appease the Fey Aliens. I imagine Solo would say, "OK, he's dead, can I go home now?"

DoctorPhanan · Post by **DoctorPhanan** » 2005-12-29 07:48pm

Isn't the horse dead already?

I seem to remember reading that this topic is one of the more common posts, and should be avoided.