I need your mid-price laptop recommendations

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2005-12-20 12:58pm

A friend of mine wants to replace his aging desktop with a laptop, he has about £800 to spend and for his money would like a laptop that is:

- pretty portable (ie not justa desktop replacement he will be travelling with it) both in terms of weight & battery life
- Has some kind of 3D capable graphics card
- also of course has a fast processor, a big HD & lots of RAM.

So basically he wants a laptop that can do everything for about £800, anybody got any recommendations?

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-12-20 01:07pm

I suggest(someone else can give a more direct solution), a Centrino branded Laptop.

That gives you wireless, great power saving CPU(pentium M) and a good hardware support.

Someone else can add details.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-12-20 04:52pm

Google says that's about 1400 USD, so I'll go with that figure.
That's pretty good, but let's not get ahead of ourselves, can you elaborate on "3d Capable graphics card"? Because if you want to run say, bf2 on a ultra-mobile (~3lbs) laptop, you may be out of luck.

As far as medium/low weight, around the 6pound range, the HP dv4000 can be configured with a x700, which is pretty good for a fairly cheap, fairly light laptop.
Of course if 3d capable doesn't include "modern" games, an x300 or even an intel itegrated would likely be all you need, and let you move down to smaller laptops, though you then start sacrificing horsepower for size.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-12-20 05:26pm

If he's just doing occasional gaming, there should be an iBook with Intel's dual-core Yonah processor coming in January according to ThinkSecret's "highly reliable" sources (that are basicly always right). And lighter than the current model (which is pretty light).

The current iBook is 699. The new one will be the same or less I believe.

If a Mac is out of the question, as Ace Pace said, get a Centrino. Centrino is the way to go for a laptop. Though with Yonah coming out next year (a faster and more power efficient and dual-core Centrino)...

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2005-12-20 06:32pm

I've found my IBM Thinkpad to be good value for money in terms of performance and robustness. The thing has survived a 4' drop onto concrete, bounced twice and come away with barely a scratch. It's also got the best battery life of any laptop I've ran into in a long while (I can manage 4 solid hours even with games running away from the plug).

I'd suggest taking a look and seeing what you can get IBM wise for £800, this came in at £400 during the summer with an 1.5G processor and 760mb of RAM, the graphics card is an intel one, but its batting way above what it should be, the mobile versions of the intel graphics cards are of far higher capabilities than the desktop ones of the same model.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-12-20 08:00pm

Praxis wrote:If he's just doing occasional gaming, there should be an iBook

If you plan on playing games, I think we can all agree that buying a mac is a foolish purchase. Even if right now WoW is your only love, in 2 or 3 years that may change....

I took a look at Lenovo's T series, which is about in your price range, and I gota say, I'm not impressed.

"Free 512MB Additional Memory, Customer Installed" - What the fuck?
"512 MB (2 NonParity DDR SDRAM SoDIMM PC2700)" - Err, what happened to pc3200?
"Radeon 9600 64mb" -Way to use surplus parts instead of the newer x600...

"40GB 5400rpm ATA-100 (Enhanced IDE)" - Slow, small, and not upgradable, nice!
"24X/24X/24X/8X Max CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo EIDE Ultrabay Slim drive" - So uhm, what if I wanted you know... a DVD burner like everyone else?
"Microsoft Office Basic Edition 2003 [add $122.99] " - Most folks don't have a spare copy of office lying around their house, so I guess you're boned on this one...

So ya, I'm going to say steer clear of the Thinkpads now that Lenovo is making them, from the looks of it, things have gone down hill. I don't know if laptops use ddr2 ram yet; but at least pc3200 ram, and user installed memory upgrades? The fuck? Every other OEM on the planet doesn't want you going inside your machine in the first place...

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2005-12-20 08:32pm

InnocentBystander wrote:Google says that's about 1400 USD, so I'll go with that figure.
That's pretty good, but let's not get ahead of ourselves, can you elaborate on "3d Capable graphics card"? Because if you want to run say, bf2 on a ultra-mobile (~3lbs) laptop, you may be out of luck.

As far as medium/low weight, around the 6pound range, the HP dv4000 can be configured with a x700, which is pretty good for a fairly cheap, fairly light laptop.
Of course if 3d capable doesn't include "modern" games, an x300 or even an intel itegrated would likely be all you need, and let you move down to smaller laptops, though you then start sacrificing horsepower for size.

the guy seldom plays games and has no illusions about playing new ones, he just want's the ability to place a bit of UT or whatever when the mood takes him.

Praxis wrote:If he's just doing occasional gaming, there should be an iBook with Intel's dual-core Yonah processor coming in January according to ThinkSecret's "highly reliable" sources (that are basicly always right). And lighter than the current model (which is pretty light).

The current iBook is 699. The new one will be the same or less I believe.

His mp3 player isn't mac compatible only so ibooks are out, nice as they are

Ypoknons · Post by **Ypoknons** » 2005-12-20 08:52pm

Definately you need to factor in the fact dual-core Yonah is out next year. For now, anything with a X600 to a Geforce 6600 would technically do the trick. I'm not familiar with UK laptop selections, so this list comes from HK list of laptops, which shouldn't be that different (Asia Pacific offerings are much much the same as "European" offerings and there's the whole colonial history to worry about).

a) Toshiba M40. I use this - Geforce 6600 is twice as fast as a X600, but battery life is dismal.
b) LG LW40, LM50 and the like... Seem like decent enough laptops; make sure they have at least an X600.
c) Acer 8100 series - most balanced of the mid-weight gaming laptops with an X700, but also top of the line and expensive.
d) Acer 4400 series - cheaper alternative to the 8100 with less RAM and other frills.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-12-20 09:05pm

Plekhanov wrote: His mp3 player isn't mac compatible only so ibooks are out, nice as they are

What kind of MP3 player is it, out of curiousity? A lot of players that have you copy music onto them as you would a hard drive work with OS X even though they don't support it.

Either way, no matter what kind of laptop he wants, if he can wait, tell him to wait for Yonah. Dual-core goodness.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-12-20 09:52pm

Ypoknons wrote:Definately you need to factor in the fact dual-core Yonah is out next year.

Also, perpendicular HDD's will be fairly common and more affordable, then. Next year will be a good time to buy a notebook.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-12-20 11:15pm

Question is, can he really wait a year? Sure they'll start selling Yonah's in Q1, but my guess is that they'll be pretty expensive to start with.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-12-21 02:59am

ThinkSecret believes that Apple will be selling the iBooks with Yonah at a lower price point than the current iBooks, so they can't be that expensive.

In fact, all data points to Yonah simply being marketted by Intel under the Centrino name. It'll just be a faster Centrino. And there will be a dual core version.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-12-21 03:12am

InnocentBystander wrote:Question is, can he really wait a year? Sure they'll start selling Yonah's in Q1, but my guess is that they'll be pretty expensive to start with.

Yonah is going to be less expensive to manufacture than current chips, so unless they're severely constrained on their production early on compared to demand, it'll be unlikely that the systems will be incredibly expensive.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-12-21 10:09am

Keevan_Colton wrote:I've found my IBM Thinkpad to be good value for money in terms of performance and robustness. The thing has survived a 4' drop onto concrete, bounced twice and come away with barely a scratch. It's also got the best battery life of any laptop I've ran into in a long while (I can manage 4 solid hours even with games running away from the plug).

Didn't you get an R-series ThinkPad? Those are pretty good deals.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-12-21 10:46am

The R series really doesn't impress me.

HP DV4000, pimped out to $1400:
OS: XP Home
Proc: P-M 725A (1.6ghz)
Display: 15.4WXGA
GPU: 128mb x700
RAM: 1gig DDR2 (2x512)
HD: 80gig@5400rpm
Optical: Dual Layer DVD+/- RW
Wireless: b/g
Batt: 12cell
Software: M$ Works/Money

R series, high end +extra ram $1400:
OS: XP Home (same)
Proc: P-M 725 (same)
Display: 15XGA (1024x768) (much worse)
GPU: Intel Extreme Graphics 2 (Isn't the newest the 900?) (much worse)
RAM: 1gig ddr PC2700 (worse)
HD: 60GB 4200rpm (much worse)
Opcital: "8x Max DVD Recordable" (is it +/- and dual layer? dunno...)
Wireless: b/g (same)
Batt: 6 cell (worse)
Software: None (worse)

Note that only the ram had an option to upgrade. I would definatly steer you away from that IBM, not that I like HP, but they're selling you more, better, hardware for the same price. And the resolution on the IBM sucks too...

Jew · Post by **Jew** » 2005-12-21 12:41pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:Question is, can he really wait a year? Sure they'll start selling Yonah's in Q1, but my guess is that they'll be pretty expensive to start with.
Yonah is going to be less expensive to manufacture than current chips, so unless they're severely constrained on their production early on compared to demand, it'll be unlikely that the systems will be incredibly expensive.

Selling price is not related to manufacturing cost. If the Yonah processors are better than the rest of the lineup then they will cost more. According to this article the dual-core Yonah processor "will be expensive" but Intel has not yet announced pricing. The rumors I'm seeing indicate that the dual-core Yonah's will core you a pretty penny, but the single-cores will be prices in the same range as the Dothans.

Plekhanov, my advice is to tell your friend not to put off buying in the hopes that he can get something better next month. Don't try to beat the system by figuring out the exact best moment to buy. Just look at what's available now, not what might possibly be available next month according to websites quoting anonymous/unnamed sources.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-12-21 04:29pm

As I recall the single core Yonah's will simply be dual-cores with the second disabled or something. If someone figures a way to flash the bios and re-activate that second core... dual core price for single core $$, bwahaha.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-12-21 07:16pm

InnocentBystander wrote:As I recall the single core Yonah's will simply be dual-cores with the second disabled or something. If someone figures a way to flash the bios and re-activate that second core... dual core price for single core $$, bwahaha.

Not if the chip is physically altered so that you can't access the other core, and those single-core processors might have a defective second core.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-12-21 07:30pm

phongn wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:As I recall the single core Yonah's will simply be dual-cores with the second disabled or something. If someone figures a way to flash the bios and re-activate that second core... dual core price for single core $$, bwahaha.
Not if the chip is physically altered so that you can't access the other core, and those single-core processors might have a defective second core.

Sure, squash my dreams!

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2005-12-21 09:18pm

Praxis wrote:
Plekhanov wrote:His mp3 player isn't mac compatible only so ibooks are out, nice as they are
What kind of MP3 player is it, out of curiousity? A lot of players that have you copy music onto them as you would a hard drive work with OS X even though they don't support it.

Either way, no matter what kind of laptop he wants, if he can wait, tell him to wait for Yonah. Dual-core goodness.

He’s got a 20Gig iRiver I don’t remember the model exactly but its documentation made it pretty clear that the manufacturer didn’t think it was Mac compatible.

Jew wrote:Plekhanov, my advice is to tell your friend not to put off buying in the hopes that he can get something better next month. Don't try to beat the system by figuring out the exact best moment to buy. Just look at what's available now, not what might possibly be available next month according to websites quoting anonymous/unnamed sources.

I tend to agree, he’s gonna wait till after the Christmas rush anyway (which is always just about the worst time to buy anything) I suspect the initially available yonah equipped laptops will be too pricey for him but hopefully their introduction will push the price of older centrino models down a little.

I’m generally wary of waiting for the next big thing when buying computer stuff anyway, especially in a mature technology like laptops, as this is such a fast moving industry that there’s always something better just round the corner so if you keep on waiting for the next step forwards before committing you’ll never buy anything.

Ypoknons · Post by **Ypoknons** » 2005-12-22 02:08pm

InnocentBystander wrote:The R series really doesn't impress me.
*snip specs*

Make sure to make an allowance for IBM's generally excellent construction - IBM laptops are beautifully put together. But yes, the HP is a far superior computer that seems to be fairly well put together as well.

Ypoknons · Post by **Ypoknons** » 2005-12-22 02:13pm

Plekhanov wrote:I’m generally wary of waiting for the next big thing when buying computer stuff anyway, especially in a mature technology like laptops, as this is such a fast moving industry that there’s always something better just round the corner so if you keep on waiting for the next step forwards before committing you’ll never buy anything.

But that's the thing. There's little steps foward and then there's big steps foward. This isn't a speed bump or even a move of chipset, this pratically increases your computing power by 50-75% (due to various issues dual core doesn't double your speed). The little things you don't have to worry about, but there are major things that are worth waiting for, and this is one of them. Especially when the wait is 2-3 months.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-12-22 02:40pm

Ypoknons wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:The R series really doesn't impress me.
*snip specs*
Make sure to make an allowance for IBM's generally excellent construction - IBM laptops are beautifully put together. But yes, the HP is a far superior computer that seems to be fairly well put together as well.

Once again, these are no longer IBM, but Lenovo, so even solid construction might not be a given anymore.

Even with that taken into consideration, the hardware inside the R series is something I would expect to see in a laptop made two years ago (maybe with less ram, MAYBE).

I could just be paranoid, but I think lenovo is really pulling some shady shit here. No one sells new computers with extremely dated RAM, no one sells computers with odd amounts of ram (768 megs, that's absurd and defeats the purpose of DDR, as I recall). Even the cheapest dell entry level machine have wxga displays...

Look, check their online store. They're definatly trying to sell PCs with substandard equipment, moreso it seems, than even HP and Dell.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-12-22 03:52pm

http://www.intel.com/technology/computing/vptech/

Yonah is gonna be sweet. This is like VMWare on a chip.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-12-22 04:56pm

Praxis wrote:Yonah is gonna be sweet. This is like VMWare on a chip.

It's better than VMWare on a chip. In one tech demo the Intel guys moved an OS "image" from one computer to another on the fly without rebooting.

InnocentBystander wrote:Once again, these are no longer IBM, but Lenovo, so even solid construction might not be a given anymore.

I've heard some grumblings about the T43, but the R-series has not yet been redesigned so it is the classic IBM goodness. Major changes like a "Dell-ification" will take more time to occur.

Even with that taken into consideration, the hardware inside the R series is something I would expect to see in a laptop made two years ago (maybe with less ram, MAYBE).

Um, the field has been fairly stagnant as of late. But nobody every bought the ThinkPad for maximum performance - its done for support, build quality and maybe the TrackPoint

I could just be paranoid, but I think lenovo is really pulling some shady shit here. No one sells new computers with extremely dated RAM, no one sells computers with odd amounts of ram (768 megs, that's absurd and defeats the purpose of DDR, as I recall). Even the cheapest dell entry level machine have wxga displays...

There is nothing wrong with a 768MB machine at all and people (other than IBM/Lenovo) do sell configurations like that. And WXGA is not that big an improvement on XGA - and I prefer 4:3 or 5:4 when doing actual work (as opposed to watching movies). If you look at the Z-series you can get widescreen if you want it.

Look, check their online store. They're definatly trying to sell PCs with substandard equipment, moreso it seems, than even HP and Dell.

WTF are you talking about?