Atheism & Christmas

[Patrick Degan]

I ranted somewhere else on the forum about how commercialism is actually necessary to keep Christmas alive. It's much more of a secular holiday than a religious one, and if it was a mainly religious holiday as the Christ-wankers want it to be, then nobody would give a shit about it.

It is as one philosopher explained it: that Christmas is actually run by a big Eastern syndicate.

[Metatwaddle]

My family celebrates Christmas, so I do too. Personally I don't care about the mythological origins too much - I simply enjoy the rituals of giving gifts, singing carols (even if the good ones are about Jesus) and the rest. I think it helped that my deconversion was a pretty peaceful one - my family was always pretty liberal in our Christianity, and even though my family all knows that I don't believe in God (and I could probably afford to be a bit quieter about it), I am fairly comfortable going to our Episcopal church (I did so for years after I stopped believing).

But last night I attended a Christmas Eve church service because my aunt was playing the trumpet and singing O Holy Night. I had forgotten how uncomfortable some church services made me. I don't know what it was, but I couldn't even bring myself to sing Silent Night.

[Plekhanov]

On the subject of atheists participating in “Christian” holidays I’d just like to point out that I also take part in festivities surrounding easter. Once again this is a Christian hijacking of a pagan festival even the name is likely derived from “Eostre” an old Saxon god.

Easter was originally a spring festival with emphasis on rebirth, growth & fertility (as you might expect it to be for people living off the land who’s precarious lives depended upon this annual rebirth). This can be seen in the surviving symbols we have for still have for easter such as eggs, chicks & bunnies which have a lot to do with pagan symbols of fertility & bugger all to do with the bible.

On the whole atheists tend to go with the flow & take part in so called “Christian festivals” simply by (like pretty much everybody else in the UK) Ignoring the few remaining religious aspects. The people who make a specific effort not to mark Christmas & easter are those belonging to ascetic Christian sects & rival monotheistic religion such as Mormons & Muslims.

[Saurencaerthai]

It just peaked my curiosity. You don't see people who aren't Jewish celebrating Hanukkah (sp?) for the most part. This really seems to be specific to Christmas. I don't know.. Anyone care to take a stab at it?

It's not one of the more important holidays. It more or less falls under the catagory of "They tried to kill or supress us/we kicked their asses/lets eat!"

[Ace Pace]

It just peaked my curiosity. You don't see people who aren't Jewish celebrating Hanukkah (sp?) for the most part. This really seems to be specific to Christmas. I don't know.. Anyone care to take a stab at it?

It's not one of the more important holidays. It more or less falls under the catagory of "They tried to kill or supress us/we kicked their asses/lets eat!"

And light cool glowing candles while singing songs, can't forget that part.

[fgalkin]

I think it's because Christmas is no longer a religious holiday, but a cultural holiday. I also think we solved that problem quite handily. In Russia, we have two distinct holidays. One is New Year's Day, which has a New Year's Tree, and presents, and the other Christmas on Jan. 6th, which is a Church holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Lusankya]

Bah, everybody knows that "Christmas" is just a hyped-up name for Boxing Day Eve, and all of this "eating" and "festivity" is just a facade while we wait for the cricket to start.


ROAR!!!!! says GOJIRA!!!!!

[Knife]

I ranted somewhere else on the forum about how commercialism is actually necessary to keep Christmas alive. It's much more of a secular holiday than a religious one, and if it was a mainly religious holiday as the Christ-wankers want it to be, then nobody would give a shit about it.

Oddly enough, I just learned recently that Protestants only just started celebrating Christmas in any sort of way, in the 19th cent, about the time that the Victorians started throwing what we today, would consider Christmas, well.....Christmas.

Christians are hypocrites, if they wanted to go back to a 'traditional' Christmas, they'd all huddle in their churches and do Mass. A 'Victorian' Christmas with a Germanic Tree, and presents, and Yule time Cheer, has absolutley nothing to do with jesus.

When Santa got introduced as the 'jolly elf', it was pretty much a damn promotion for stores, rather than some Christian icon.

Screw O'riely.

[Braedley]

IIRC, the modern Santa Clause was created by Coca-Cola. It was a marketing ploy. Before then, St. Nick wasn't always shown in red, and wasn't always fat.

[Metatwaddle]

Christians are hypocrites, if they wanted to go back to a 'traditional' Christmas, they'd all huddle in their churches and do Mass. A 'Victorian' Christmas with a Germanic Tree, and presents, and Yule time Cheer, has absolutley nothing to do with jesus.

But how many Christians really push for that sort of "traditional" Christmas? The ones I know will put up a tree for the sake of tradition, but for them the thing that really makes a Christmas godly is worship.

Besides, the "these are pagan rituals" thing has been done to death. We've all heard it before. Christians adopted those rituals. So what?

[mr friendly guy]

Besides, the "these are pagan rituals" thing has been done to death. We've all heard it before. Christians adopted those rituals. So what?

So they can't claim things like commercialism / political correctness is destroying "traditional" or "true meaning of" Christmas without being factually wrong and hypocrites as well.

[Plekhanov]

I ranted somewhere else on the forum about how commercialism is actually necessary to keep Christmas alive. It's much more of a secular holiday than a religious one, and if it was a mainly religious holiday as the Christ-wankers want it to be, then nobody would give a shit about it.

Oddly enough, I just learned recently that Protestants only just started celebrating Christmas in any sort of way, in the 19th cent, about the time that the Victorians started throwing what we today, would consider Christmas, well.....Christmas.

Christians are hypocrites, if they wanted to go back to a 'traditional' Christmas, they'd all huddle in their churches and do Mass. A 'Victorian' Christmas with a Germanic Tree, and presents, and Yule time Cheer, has absolutley nothing to do with jesus.

When Santa got introduced as the 'jolly elf', it was pretty much a damn promotion for stores, rather than some Christian icon.


Screw O'riely.

There was a History Profesor on the BBC the other day talking about this, he pointed out that back at the start of the 19th Century the Carlton Club (the national exec of the governing Conservative Party) called a meeting on December 25th because "they knew the members would be free that day". So 200 years ago Christmas day was just another day & one of so little significance that the self described “party of Church & King” arranged committee meetings on it something no political leader would think of doing today.

But how many Christians really push for that sort of "traditional" Christmas?

All the ones who mouth off in the media every December about how commercialism is spoiling the "true meaning of Christmas”. Pretty much every pastor who’s sermon I was ever forced to sit through in the run up to Christmas couldn’t let a sermon go by without bitching about commercialism taking over from what was apparently “the celebration of Jesus’s Birthday”. In my experienced most committed (as opposed to nominal in name only) Christians often whinge about the secular aspects of Christmas that’s all they can do though as they simply don’t have the political to “push” their “traditional” Christmas upon us.

The ones I know will put up a tree for the sake of tradition, but for them the thing that really makes a Christmas godly is worship.

And how many of them are happy with the fact that for the rest of us Christmas is about anything but “godly worship”? How many of them would like to see our secular festivities stopped?

Besides, the "these are pagan rituals" thing has been done to death. We've all heard it before. Christians adopted those rituals. So what?

So they have absolutely no grounds whatsoever to complain about other groups adapting Christmas to suit their own tastes.

[Lord Pounder]

I'm a very happy athiest yet i celebrate christmas. Not because of any religious matters, simply because it's one of the few times of year my whole immediate family get arround a dinner table, eat till we need to loosen out belts and drink butt loads of alcohol and generally have a a bit of craic.

[Knife]

Christians are hypocrites, if they wanted to go back to a 'traditional' Christmas, they'd all huddle in their churches and do Mass. A 'Victorian' Christmas with a Germanic Tree, and presents, and Yule time Cheer, has absolutley nothing to do with jesus.

But how many Christians really push for that sort of "traditional" Christmas? The ones I know will put up a tree for the sake of tradition, but for them the thing that really makes a Christmas godly is worship.

That's the point, their little church-mass was apperently inadaquate for them, though 'traditionally' it's what they've done for hundreds of years. Rather, 150-ish years ago, Victorians scraped together a bitchen holiday that had little to do with jesus, and more to do with plain celebration.

Now, flash forward 150-ish years, and the Christians want you to beleive that a damn evergreen is a Christian sysmbo, Yule logs, well obviously a Christian symbol. "You can't take away our Christian symbols! It's a war against Christians!?!?"

If they were honest, and they did have Christmas for 'worship' then they would be in their churchs and this whole hub-bub about Christmas wouldn't be going on.

Besides, the "these are pagan rituals" thing has been done to death. We've all heard it before. Christians adopted those rituals. So what?

It's the 'I've conquored everything, don't percecute me' mentality. That's what. Christians as a group, destroyed the Yule time celebrations hundreds of years ago, then pretty much forgot about 'christmas' until the Victorians reserected it as a mostly 'yule time celebration' type thing. Immeadiately, celebrating Christmas became importent in the church and all that stuff the Vic's came up with is immeadiately either a Christian Icon or evil comercialism.

So What? It's the 600 ape in the room. They are hypocrites.

[Molyneux]

It just peaked my curiosity. You don't see people who aren't Jewish celebrating Hanukkah (sp?) for the most part. This really seems to be specific to Christmas. I don't know.. Anyone care to take a stab at it?

It's not one of the more important holidays. It more or less falls under the catagory of "They tried to kill or supress us/we kicked their asses/lets eat!"

That description pretty much applies to every Jewish holiday aside from Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and that arbor day holiday which name I always forget.

My family has a longstanding Christmas tradition (which we unfortunately had to break this year due to illness) of going to see a big movie and then eating out at our favorite Chinese restaurant for dinner. It's fun. ^_^

[Saurencaerthai]

It just peaked my curiosity. You don't see people who aren't Jewish celebrating Hanukkah (sp?) for the most part. This really seems to be specific to Christmas. I don't know.. Anyone care to take a stab at it?

It's not one of the more important holidays. It more or less falls under the catagory of "They tried to kill or supress us/we kicked their asses/lets eat!"

That description pretty much applies to every Jewish holiday aside from Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and that arbor day holiday which name I always forget.

Tu B'Shvat?

Tisha B'Av is more like "Awww, snap, they got us this time!"

[Ace Pace]

It's not one of the more important holidays. It more or less falls under the catagory of "They tried to kill or supress us/we kicked their asses/lets eat!"

That description pretty much applies to every Jewish holiday aside from Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and that arbor day holiday which name I always forget.

Tu B'Shvat?

Tisha B'Av is more like "Awww, snap, they got us this time!"

Tu B'Shvat is a cultural one as far as the school teachs it.

Shavuot is what you're searching for.

[Molyneux]

That description pretty much applies to every Jewish holiday aside from Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and that arbor day holiday which name I always forget.

Tu B'Shvat?

Tisha B'Av is more like "Awww, snap, they got us this time!"

Tu B'Shvat is a cultural one as far as the school teachs it.

Shavuot is what you're searching for.

Um, not really. Shavuot is the day on which the Ten Commandments were given to the Jewish people, traditionally. Sauren was right - Tu Bishvat is the 'New Year of the Trees', and apparently even that has sometimes had a small seder associated with it (according to the Wikipedia entry...I don't remember much from Hebrew school, sorry)

[Zero]

I celebrate christmas because my family always has. I figure for most atheists, its the same thing. Most atheists in north america either converted from christianity, or were raised by atheist parents that had done so. Christmas is a family tradition among every family I know. It only makes sense that this tradition would be passed down, even when the person in question has given up the religion it supposedly belongs to.

It also doesn't help that christmas has become such a commercialized holiday that the whole bit about Jesus being born is an irrelevancy to the common man. The birth of jesus has nothing to do with the majority of movies about christmas, and the christmas mythology has nothing whatsoever to do with christian religion. Christmas is, due to advertising agencies, mostly seperate from christianity.

[Ace Pace]

Tu B'Shvat?

Tisha B'Av is more like "Awww, snap, they got us this time!"

Tu B'Shvat is a cultural one as far as the school teachs it.

Shavuot is what you're searching for.

Um, not really. Shavuot is the day on which the Ten Commandments were given to the Jewish people, traditionally. Sauren was right - Tu Bishvat is the 'New Year of the Trees', and apparently even that has sometimes had a small seder associated with it (according to the Wikipedia entry...I don't remember much from Hebrew school, sorry)

So yes, Shavuot is one of the holidays that arn't about " "They tried to kill or supress us/we kicked their asses/lets eat!".

[Darth Wong]

I would be interested in knowing what percentage of a typical Christian's holiday season is spent on religious activities; I suspect it's quite low.

[Molyneux]

Tu B'Shvat is a cultural one as far as the school teachs it.

Shavuot is what you're searching for.

Um, not really. Shavuot is the day on which the Ten Commandments were given to the Jewish people, traditionally. Sauren was right - Tu Bishvat is the 'New Year of the Trees', and apparently even that has sometimes had a small seder associated with it (according to the Wikipedia entry...I don't remember much from Hebrew school, sorry)

So yes, Shavuot is one of the holidays that arn't about " "They tried to kill or supress us/we kicked their asses/lets eat!".

Ah...you're right, I forgot that this'd been about that.

[Ace Pace]

I still say the kickass holidays are Rosh Hashana, Hanukah and Shavuot. I mean, all the rest involve weird or just plain boring stuff.

[Molyneux]

I still say the kickass holidays are Rosh Hashana, Hanukah and Shavuot. I mean, all the rest involve weird or just plain boring stuff.

...but...but...what about Purim?
It's the one day a year that God tells you outright to go get drunk off your ass! It is heavenly extra credit on Purim to get monumentally smashed! And the cookies aregreat, too - and easy to bake.

[Ace Pace]

I still say the kickass holidays are Rosh Hashana, Hanukah and Shavuot. I mean, all the rest involve weird or just plain boring stuff.

...but...but...what about Purim?
It's the one day a year that God tells you outright to go get drunk off your ass! It is heavenly extra credit on Purim to get monumentally smashed! And the cookies aregreat, too - and easy to bake.

And holiday that wants me dressed up is not my holiday.