Is the NJO worth it?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

I've been considering picking up the NJO for a while now, because a lot of shit happens throughout the series and I want to see just how badly the plots got screwed up by mediocre authors.

So, in your estimation, fellow nerds, is it worth the time and money?

Depends. If you are a completist, get it.

The most annoying part about the NJO is how it turns a lot of things on its head, that's not supposed to happen.

Before the NJO, we knew the NR had problems - but they were just, you know, problems. Now, we realize they are a disaster that should never have been permitted to rule the galaxy - and of course, that was completely out of the intent of all the guys writing in the Bantam era.

See for example the hostage stuff in SbS's Battle of Coruscant. In BFC, they did something similar - but at least that was a low-level insubordination with relatively green troops. Now it is top-level, and in a far worse situation.

To create artificial difficulties in a galaxy vs planet war, they even picked up some racial things. Remember back when how the only reason the Empire doesn't use non-humans is because they are racist turds? Now we see a Bothan in action as a Chief of State - he stank. We see Sullustans as fleet commander, and we suddenly realize that they are careerists and uninspiring (and it seems this isn't a Sovv thing, but a Sullustan thing)! They even did in the Mon Cals with that Ackdool. I sure won't want these guys commanding my fleet!

That was when I turned from "some Empire sympathies" to "Imperial apologist". Basically, except for debating purposes, there is little reason to pick up the NJO in general - it kills your "innocence" in SW.

[Anarchist Bunny]

It takes a lot to get invested in the series, but I haven't regretted reading any but three of them. Vector Prime, and the Agents of Chaos Duology are trash, utter unremarkable fucking trash. Balance Point and Dark Journey are no where near as bad as them and are fairly decent(I love Jaina playing with the Vong). The Stackpole Duology are mildly entertaining, and the Edge of Victory Duology is my favorite yet, followed by Traitor. SbS is good, though not the best its often considered. The Destiny's Way and Enemy Lines Duology aren't bad either, though that maybe just beecause finally after half the serious they're finally fucking doing something. Right now I'm at Force Heretic 1 and haven't had a problem with it.

[Dalton]

I think I'll just take up Poe's suggestion...

[Sidewinder]

Remember 'Transformers the Movie'? Remember when they killed off Optimus Prime and replaced Megatron with Galvatron?

The result: Autobots become virtual eunuchs, thanks to the self-mutilating (figuratively and literally) idiot who became their commander (cough, Rodimus, cough!), and the only reason the Decepticons couldn't wipe them out was because their commander keeps thinking with his prosthetic penis instead of his brain (cough, Galvatron, cough!).

Removing Luke Skywalker does the same thing to 'Star Wars' novels. It's okay if he's not present so the story can focus on other characters, as is the case with the 'Han Solo Adventures'. But when you try to get rid of him, as Kevin J. Anderson has done...

Or worse, lobotomize him so he'll have a flaw that can be exploited by a cunning enemy, as Kevin J. Anderson has done (cough, 'Darksaber', cough!)...

[Dalton]

Ugh, please don't remind me of Darksaber, or any of KJA's other abortive attempts at writing.

[Sea Skimmer]

If your going to read it, I strongly suggest you start with Star By Star and work forward. The books before that are just not worth it, and the latter books will tell you everything important that happened anyway.

[Anarchist Bunny]

If your going to read it, I strongly suggest you start with Star By Star and work forward. The books before that are just not worth it, and the latter books will tell you everything important that happened anyway.

I recommend doing the two Edge of Victory books before that. Besides being my favorite in the series so far, they really handle the Vong well. I think that was the first time you get to see the Vong as more than the evil guys that the good guys are going to have to kill(which leads up to a major plot point in the later novels), but you begin to understand how and why they do things.

[Zwinmar]

Personnally, I hate the Vong...I dont think it fits with starwars at all. However, my major beaf is with the bs of Vergere and her view of the force. In the movies, the force deals with black and white, good vs evil. Were as this new religion believes in a damn rainbow. Of course, I hate compromise, its the course of balless wonders who cant stand up for their beliefs.

What i did like however were the battles that did not feature anyone who uses the force. In my opinion, Wedge and Tycho are far better characters than even Skywalker or the Solo brats. But then Wedge and Tycho were normal beings who had to fight for survival, the rest have the funky force powers that let them do things without effort.

Though the NJO books are well written (except Traitor), I dont believe they should belong with Star Wars, they fit more with Star Trek than anything

[Noble Ire]

Though the NJO books are well written (except Traitor), I dont believe they should belong with Star Wars, they fit more with Star Trek than anything

What was wrong with Traitor? It's one of my favorites of the series. If you want bad writing, I direct you to Dark Journey.
And personally, I didn't find anything wrong with introducing new concepts, species, and changes into the universe. It was getting way too stagnant, at least in post-ROTJ, although I'm not sure the NJO did enough to fix that.

[Vicious]

It has some stand-outs, but that's more because most of it honestly blows. I've read the entire NJO, and most of it does suck. Star by Star, Traitor, Rebel Stand & Rebel Dream stand out, but most of it is crap. The biotech wanking of the Vong and the absurd minimalism of the Jedi destroy a lot of the "combat", as it usually devolves into Major Characters Pull Shit Out Their Ass™ situations. A lot of subplots get started that never go anywhere, and a large portion of the story-arc is the NR being utterly stupid. Not "we fucked up, how did we miss that" stupid, but "we are unstoppable, there is nothing that can threaten us, they aren't evil" stupid. Still, there are moments when it is good, and I felt it was worth it in the end despite the tripe I had to slog through. I'm tolerant, though, and am willing to push through a lot for the bits which are good, so your mileage may vary there.

[Surlethe]

It was getting way too stagnant, at least in post-ROTJ, although I'm not sure the NJO did enough to fix that.

I would submit stagnancy is the natural state of the SW galaxy: remember, the Republic existed in stagnation for over 25,000 years; the Empire and the preceding turmoil were aberrant, and hardly representative of the peaceful norm. At least, I'd expect the galaxy to go back to stagnancy once it's returned to a semi-stable perpetual sort of government: books might be written regarding local conflicts, or momentary crises, but to maintain any sort of credibility, EU writers shouldn't threaten the existence of the NR time after time, because that sort of threat really should arise very infrequently.

[Noble Ire]

It was getting way too stagnant, at least in post-ROTJ, although I'm not sure the NJO did enough to fix that.

I would submit stagnancy is the natural state of the SW galaxy: remember, the Republic existed in stagnation for over 25,000 years; the Empire and the preceding turmoil were aberrant, and hardly representative of the peaceful norm. At least, I'd expect the galaxy to go back to stagnancy once it's returned to a semi-stable perpetual sort of government: books might be written regarding local conflicts, or momentary crises, but to maintain any sort of credibility, EU writers shouldn't threaten the existence of the NR time after time, because that sort of threat really should arise very infrequently.

Actually, I was refering the the stagnancy in the thought processes of EU writers. For all its faults, the NJO was at least partially able to escape the endlessly repeated "new Imperial warlord, lost Imperial fleet, lost Imperial superweapon, rogue Jedi with ancient Sith weapon, etc." plot formula.

[Surlethe]

Actually, I was refering the the stagnancy in the thought processes of EU writers. For all its faults, the NJO was at least partially able to escape the endlessly repeated "new Imperial warlord, lost Imperial fleet, lost Imperial superweapon, rogue Jedi with ancient Sith weapon, etc." plot formula.

My mistake. Apparently, my reading comprehension is at a fourth grade level today.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Actually, I was refering the the stagnancy in the thought processes of EU writers. For all its faults, the NJO was at least partially able to escape the endlessly repeated "new Imperial warlord, lost Imperial fleet, lost Imperial superweapon, rogue Jedi with ancient Sith weapon, etc." plot formula.

I think one of the problems with the EU writing was that none of the authors had any understanding of the scale of the SW universe, and how that could be used. They felt like everything had to involve the same main characters, and furthermore every plot had to be prominent on the galactic level. Everything was "If Luke and company fail, the galaxy is DOOMED!" This is fine for a little while, but as the game goes on it gets repetative and often quite stupid. The larger part of the EU is just repetition of the same theme, as you say.

I think there's a lot of potential tied up in actually making the "Expanded Universe" expanded. Things like the Mandalorian Armor series, for example. Thought some may disagree (probably because of the idiosyncratic writing style), I thought those books were a lot of fun. They took one popular character who nevertheless had only a small role in the films, some other EU faces plus some entirely new people, and then put them in situations that avoided the hackneyed EU cliches. I won't claim that the result was perfect, but I thought they were good.

With creative writers who are actually take the "expanded" part of the universe seriously, you could make scads of quite good novels, and there are enough fans to make them profitable.

[Noble Ire]

With creative writers who are actually take the "expanded" part of the universe seriously, you could make scads of quite good novels, and there are enough fans to make them profitable.

The CW era novels did this quite well, I think. Medstar, Hard Contact, and Shatterpoint were all very good, each featuring a single (or no) movie character in an never before seen setting, and had them doing things of importance, but not galactic importance, as the post ROTJ books are invariably about. I hope this trends continues into the Interology and pre-TPM periods, both of which are slated for a lot of new works, novels especially.

[General Soontir Fel]

With creative writers who are actually take the "expanded" part of the universe seriously, you could make scads of quite good novels, and there are enough fans to make them profitable.

The CW era novels did this quite well, I think. Medstar, Hard Contact, and Shatterpoint were all very good, each featuring a single (or no) movie character in an never before seen setting, and had them doing things of importance, but not galactic importance, as the post ROTJ books are invariably about. I hope this trends continues into the Interology and pre-TPM periods, both of which are slated for a lot of new works, novels especially.

Also, the Han Solo and Lando Calrissian Adventures books set pre-ANH. Important matters locally, but not galactically.

The NJO did move away from the established EU pattern. The YJK novels were the worst in this regard, with the Solo kids in their early teens essentially saving the galaxy single-handedly at least twice.

[Medic]

The number of authors and ideas they bought very effectively Star Trek-ified the series. Some minimilism some quite the opposite. Everything else you're seeing here's accurate too.

There's a neat little twist at the end as to why the Vong are the way they are but big fucking woop. I only finished the series because I had all the last books in my posession when I just arrived to Ft. Riley and had quite literally nothing to do for up to 10 hours of the day before I got to a unit.

Completism, as mentioned earlier, is the only real reason good enough. Still, if you want a more intimate understanding of how and why the series sucks, by all means.

[Guardsman Bass]

I liked Star by Star, and recommend it, but I didn't think too much of Viqi Shesh's character. She seemed to be more of a living plot device than a real traitor, and what exactly did she have to gain from the Vong defeating the Republic? It never mentioned her getting any money, and she must have known that Kuat, as a center for the production of starships, would eventually be a target for the machine-hating Vong.

[Darth Raptor]

Personnally, I hate the Vong...I dont think it fits with starwars at all. However, my major beaf is with the bs of Vergere and her view of the force. In the movies, the force deals with black and white, good vs evil. Were as this new religion believes in a damn rainbow. Of course, I hate compromise, its the course of balless wonders who cant stand up for their beliefs.

God, you're dumb. Obi-Wan himself said that only a Sith deals in absolutes. Any thinking being will modify their position when it's shown to be inadequate. The Jedi Order are the closest thing the SW galaxy has to an ethical school of thought. It does no good for them to become conservative fanatics.