MMORPGs - Who here plays them?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-12-30 02:05am

Back-up healing is one of the jobs of a feral druid in much the same way it is the job of a shaman or a paladin. We are very much Fifth Man Mike i.e. we do whatever the situation requires. If healings covered, we do DPS. If the tank is rooted or dead, we bear up (feral druids are excellent tanks, even if we have less aggro grabbing options). And if one of those fucking giant Gurubashi Berserker cadaver junkies carpet punts/slows half the raid, clears his aggro table, and beelines for a priest, we fucking keep the priest alive. Hell, when it comes to Zul'Gurub, druids often don't get to cat up because they have to do crowd control the various six beast pulls you encounter every other footstep.

Basically, any Druid who says he can't heal because he wants to be high on the damage meter list isn't worth having in a Raid. Feral druids have a ton of worth to a raid, but very often it boils down to points where you can't have enough healing and anyone who can chuck a regrowth or healing touch has to do so. I known a few players who think doing stuff outside their chosen build it beneath them and they quickly find they aren't welcome on Raids where everyone has to do their part.

It pisses me off alot too. Equally as the buttholes fascists who think you are worthless because you didn't make a restor spec druid.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-12-30 02:26am

Gil Hamilton wrote:Back-up healing is one of the jobs of a feral druid in much the same way it is the job of a shaman or a paladin. We are very much Fifth Man Mike i.e. we do whatever the situation requires. If healings covered, we do DPS. If the tank is rooted or dead, we bear up (feral druids are excellent tanks, even if we have less aggro grabbing options). And if one of those fucking giant Gurubashi Berserker cadaver junkies carpet punts/slows half the raid, clears his aggro table, and beelines for a priest, we fucking keep the priest alive. Hell, when it comes to Zul'Gurub, druids often don't get to cat up because they have to do crowd control the various six beast pulls you encounter every other footstep.

Basically, any Druid who says he can't heal because he wants to be high on the damage meter list isn't worth having in a Raid. Feral druids have a ton of worth to a raid, but very often it boils down to points where you can't have enough healing and anyone who can chuck a regrowth or healing touch has to do so. I known a few players who think doing stuff outside their chosen build it beneath them and they quickly find they aren't welcome on Raids where everyone has to do their part.

That is a part I do not get of people that have that mentality. Raids are dependant on roles...pure and simple. You can switch up on them, but for fuck's sake, learn the fact that if failing a role that is asked can wipe a raid real quick. It's like a Pally running in going Concecration when asked to spot heal the priest.....your piddling 400 extra is not doing a damn thing to that monster except wasting your mana.

The funniest is only a couple druids are the main healers, most the priest are because we need them to be. So the druids just need to heal decently...not outdoing the priest, but this fucker just got me because he was doing the worst I had seen of "My spec is this."

It pisses me off alot too. Equally as the buttholes fascists who think you are worthless because you didn't make a restor spec druid.

I'm reminded of before I left, when they asked if I should be pure protect spec, and I asked were they going to allow me to raiding 24/7 and have all the loot. I sword and board when the raid calls for it, but anything short of MC/BWL and now ZG....our guild doesn't need it, and UBRS is such a joke...it's not even a 50 minute event.

Innervate is cool, but does not make or break a raid.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-12-30 02:30am

Hrm. Innervate IS cool, but I wonder. Right now, I plan to run 30 balance , 21 Resto on my druid, as a matter of preference. Would I be better doing a 31 Resto innervate healer, or 21 Resto, 30 Feral Heart of the Wild healer w/NS?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-12-30 02:36am

Nephtys wrote:Hrm. Innervate IS cool, but I wonder. Right now, I plan to run 30 balance , 21 Resto on my druid, as a matter of preference. Would I be better doing a 31 Resto innervate healer, or 21 Resto, 30 Feral Heart of the Wild healer w/NS?

What do you want to do?

Like Gil points out, really a druid without full Restoration is not bad, just not going to be the main healer...and if so, you got some shitty priests in your guild.

Any part is decent, just need to focus the equipment on such. Personally probably feral/resto spec because pure healing is only good on huge raids.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-12-30 03:17am

I was having a discussion with someone about eve online, and managed to piss her off by saying "So it's tradewar with graphics?"

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2005-12-30 03:45am

I played a paladin up to 40 in WoW. It was an unspectacular and frankly dull class, but it's saving grace was that it was a beautiful wipe-resister when played correctly. I could stand there with three things hitting me, and still throw heals on the rest of the group when the priest was out of mana. Or I could throw heals on the priest while the warriors pulled away whatever was chewing on them.

My paladin never had the capacity for main healing duty, but his durability allowed him to put his limited healing to the best possible use in a shitty situation. I only worried about inflicting damage when everything was going swimmingly.

Still that raiding/endgame crap sounds like bullshit. I could never put up with that.

Stormin · Post by **Stormin** » 2005-12-30 04:57am

LordShaithis wrote:Still that raiding/endgame crap sounds like bullshit. I could never put up with that.

Indeed. I though having to go out for 3 hours with a 30 person raid, then just buggering off when they lotto out the loot because it isn't worth the time it takes was bad enough. It's amazing the ammount of drama people can create over PvE.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-12-30 09:22am

If you have a good, FRIENDLY raid with enough of a Stick of Beating to bounce the dipshits, it can be a lot of fun, actually. I raid with two different groups right now, and I actually have a good time doing it. Oh, sure, there are obnoxious parts, but it's all in the people. And yeah, any competent raid leader would bounce that wannabe Druid out on his ass in a heartbeat, if not boot him from the guild. We had a Rogue on tuesday who was literally below a PRIEST in DPS, and only slightly above one of our hunters' pets. Needless to say we won't be seeing him anytime soon.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-12-30 09:36am

White Haven wrote:If you have a good, FRIENDLY raid with enough of a Stick of Beating to bounce the dipshits, it can be a lot of fun, actually. I raid with two different groups right now, and I actually have a good time doing it. Oh, sure, there are obnoxious parts, but it's all in the people. And yeah, any competent raid leader would bounce that wannabe Druid out on his ass in a heartbeat, if not boot him from the guild.

Sadly the fucker is one of those "grandfather clause" sons of bitches. And I believe has some real life connection with the head of the Guild. Though will he ever raid with us again? No. Last night they essentially told him he either starts learning when they ask to throw a heal do so, or fuck being here.

So we'll see in UBRS can he grasp this simple concept.

We had a Rogue on tuesday who was literally below a PRIEST in DPS, and only slightly above one of our hunters' pets. Needless to say we won't be seeing him anytime soon.

*snort* BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That person sucks. Fucking A, that sucks amazingly bad.

And as for raiding...that's the end product of MMORPGs, either that or farming for materials for your kick ass creations...or the lesser of the kickass, since some of the greater require ugly materials. And if I hear "WoW then sucks because it does that.". It is how most EQ derived MMORPGs make their money. Give you and yours a 3 hour time sink.

Acidburns · Post by **Acidburns** » 2005-12-30 09:41am

My druid is 14/31/5 and has still main healed through Diremaul (My healer gear isnt that great either, I use 7 wildheart, +44 healing gloves, rod of ogre magi and a few +magic items)

Though, with no healing talents I find that it is not healing power I lack, but the little utility skills in resto that make it easier. IE I take full spell interruption, no nature's swiftness etc. It's still quite doable with a half decent group. Though when I starting running around clubbing mobs with my staff for omen procs it always freaks people out.

I have main tanked plenty of lvl 60 instances too (including Dire Maul and UBRS).

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-12-30 09:45am

To put honestly Pallies can main tank everything up to UBRS....nothing special and honestly does not prepare one for the fun of MC tanking. Literally they've neutered it to that point. Druids are better then Pallies on those instances because they have something for quickie usage.

Same goes for healing. But healing usually is mitigated by that priests should realize when it's time, to repec a bit because MC runs are reliant on them, especially with the Defense nerf(fuckers).

In ZG, Druids and Pallies are off tanks if you don't have enough warriors which is likely since both classses are there more for spot healing.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-12-30 11:15am

Eh, pallies/druids can offtank fine on stuff like Garr adds and such....good ones, at least. As far as specs...both my hunter and my priest are full-on PvE-specced. My warlock's gonna be a wierdass homebrew off-the-wall spec, which oughta be oodles of fun, but not so hot for MC. *smirks*

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-12-30 11:25am

White Haven wrote:Eh, pallies/druids can offtank fine on stuff like Garr adds and such....good ones, at least.

Yeah but not Garr himself

. Adds like that and sons aren't bad...but no one goes "Okay Druid main tank Luci there...we want to see how bad it gets."

As far as specs...both my hunter and my priest are full-on PvE-specced. My warlock's gonna be a wierdass homebrew off-the-wall spec, which oughta be oodles of fun, but not so hot for MC. *smirks*

Pfft...as long as you've got mains for the glory *snort* of MC and BWL...and AQ and such not, I don't see you needing another person, warlocks get so many bitch slaps, I say get as much fun as you can. I still want Soul shards to STACK. Goddamnit.

Also just as note...people who are new to tanking should not tank General Drak as their first major tank experience. It can be okay practice, but you should have the fundamentals down because if not, it can get real ugly very quickly.

Also, taunt is your friend for snapping a person back...especially when you have a epic specced rogue and mage wailing away like a madman on a random mob. Something I did ask why she didn't use.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-12-30 02:55pm

Hehe. My Warlock will only ever enter MC if the run is solid enough that I can mooch epics the other locks don't need. Not gonna gimp 'em out by tossing my fruitcake-specced lock in there. And yeah, shards're a pain in the balls, but mine's a less shard-reliant build than most, which is a plus. As for Drakk, hell, we've had a PALLY tank him with no problems...use a Hunter to kite him out while his adds are dealt with and he's a paper tiger.

Vanas · Post by **Vanas** » 2005-12-30 03:17pm

I play WoW a bit, my main character's a 32 Druid. I got rather bored of the endless 'Go here, kill 50,000 of x, y and z' quests, and have a veritable menagerie of alts.

I got CoV recently, and am loving the Mastermind class.

Any European types on either of those games?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-12-30 03:18pm

just a stupid question but what is warlock worth in a raid, the only thing I can think of is to suck out the domination(or possession(or what ever it's called)) in the Baronness Anastari fight at Strat (aka be there to be killed by rest of the party)?

Stormin · Post by **Stormin** » 2005-12-30 03:58pm

Ghost Rider wrote:And as for raiding...that's the end product of MMORPGs, either that or farming for materials for your kick ass creations...or the lesser of the kickass, since some of the greater require ugly materials. And if I hear "WoW then sucks because it does that.". It is how most EQ derived MMORPGs make their money. Give you and yours a 3 hour time sink.

Nah, I only need to go on long raids for credit (master level encounter/artifact encounter on toa servers, quest credit on Classic) The only gear raiding I ever needed to do was simply either a case of borrowing a friends Focus Damage Shield pet class and a power font bot and farming high level encounters (ToA) or with 7 other people raiding the one-group instance in darkspire (which can take anywhere up to an hour and a half) where everyone is assured of either getting two of what they need, or two somethings of equal value to trade or sell for what is needed (and here is where the chinese plat farmers are loved, they brought so much darkspire stuff into the market that the prices are very low. 4 plat for the caster sleves when it used to be as high as 20)
Someone who knows what they are doing and is fairly active can get a toon to max level and fully geared out with the best of them in 2 weeks to a month (lot longer than that if you are those one hour a week people) If you have friends helping you out, you can get done in 3 days to a week.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2005-12-30 04:59pm

The Everquest-style endgame is a fucking blight upon humanity. Fifty or sixty catass-scented players in a bullshit guild where your standing is inversely proportional to how much of a life you have, bumbling around killing the same stupid monster 6000 times in a row, so they can hold a little lottery to see which two of the fifty get to have something to show for the six hours worth of time they just murdered.

They aren't motivated by fun. Tetris is fun. Street Fighter is fun. Raiding is just e-peen enlargement, motivated by the same impulse that keeps little old ladies in front of a slot machine for eight hours a day. I mean, what other game has people paying money month after month, yet only infrequently saying "You know, sometimes it's actually enjoyable!" like that's something novel?

If I made a single-player or non-persistant multiplayer game where e-peen was out the window by definition, and gave it all the "fun" of a WoW/EQ raid, it would end up a fucking laughingstock that nobody would touch with a ten foot pole.

"Coming in 2006, Baldur's Gate 3! Now with three-hour long boss fights and six-hour long dungeons that you'll need to base your day's schedule around! Do them over and over and over again, because that's all there is to do!"

Yeah, THAT would go over well.

Karza · Post by **Karza** » 2005-12-30 05:26pm

Lord Revan wrote:just a stupid question but what is warlock worth in a raid, the only thing I can think of is to suck out the domination(or possession(or what ever it's called)) in the Baronness Anastari fight at Strat (aka be there to be killed by rest of the party)?

Well, soulstones are really nifty, and on some occasions so is banish. And of course they can do lots of damage.

And surprisingly enough, I play WoW. Got a lv60 night elf warrior and a lv58 night elf rogue, plus a mish-mash of lv20ish characters. No major gripes, but then again I play on a PvE realm (so practically no ganking etc.) and I'm not running any high-end instances.

EDIT: well, morons galore of course, but I've sort of learned to live with it, and I mostly play with guildfriends anyway.

I also have Guild Wars, but I don't really play it. I just didn't like its mechanics.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-12-30 08:15pm

No feral druid is going to tank a Molten Core boss or higher. That would be rediculous, simply because even with aggro talents, bears just don't have as many tricks in their bag in holding aggro, even if we can build up a rediculous amount of armor and HP. One of Garrs boys, maybe, but frankly, unless you've got a really healer happy raid, a druid is better off just putting on his smarty pants and healing. You don't walk into Molten Core without at least five tanks (for the Core Hound fights) and chances are your raid has enough warriors and warlocks to control all of Garr's pups. That's not to say that if things go south you can turn into a bear and grab a Garr Pup or Core Hound or Boss Posse member, however.

Lord Revan wrote:just a stupid question but what is warlock worth in a raid, the only thing I can think of is to suck out the domination(or possession(or what ever it's called)) in the Baronness Anastari fight at Strat (aka be there to be killed by rest of the party)?

Depends on where. In Molten Core, they can banish since the place is packed with banishable elementals. However, their general role is a DPS like a mage but more evil and humanoid crowd control. There are other niche things that Warlocks can do, like with their Felhunter. For the most part, they blow shit up and soul stone important people. A good warlock can put out sick amounts of damage and make tanking an "interesting" experience if they just cut loose.

Plus, they are summoning whores when someone inevitably forgets to repair and has to jog back or is running let and is on the bat from West Kerbumfuck Kalimdor (Silithus) when the raid is assembling in Blackrock Mountain.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-12-30 10:02pm

White Haven wrote:Hehe. My Warlock will only ever enter MC if the run is solid enough that I can mooch epics the other locks don't need. Not gonna gimp 'em out by tossing my fruitcake-specced lock in there. And yeah, shards're a pain in the balls, but mine's a less shard-reliant build than most, which is a plus. As for Drakk, hell, we've had a PALLY tank him with no problems...use a Hunter to kite him out while his adds are dealt with and he's a paper tiger.

Yeah, but had a hunter help, and probably better then usual Pally.

And very cool about the Warlock. Gil is right, a correctly specced Warlock can spew some incredible Shadowbolts, but really in some instances...it's just not worth really, beyond the few. Hells, I was chatting with on on TS, because he just sort was "Well I SS and portal the dumbass, oh and wait...occasionally Banish...wee.....goddamn it, I need music."

For me my experience was baby sitting an alt warrior and whispered to her "BTW, you do know Defense stance holds better aggro....right?" Fuck using Sunder/Taunt/Revenge/Shield Block....no I just want the acknowledgement that one understands the basic of tanking as a warrior.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2005-12-30 10:33pm

Well, I just saw (well, I'm pretty sure I saw) cybering in Guild Wars. And then I saw two male avatars get in an argument over who was screwing the chick avatar longer. Talk about pathetic...

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-12-30 10:37pm

There are too many people who play warriors who just don't know how to tank right. Seriously. I've seen people attempt to tank in berserk stance with a two hander under the impression that if you do alot of damage, you hold aggro better. Or the guys who don't know about crowd control and hit sheeps to make sure they mobs they've got aggro on a mob (or throws around cleaves), then getting defensive when the mage swears at them and names them "Sheepfucker".

Or doesn't know when to let someone off tank. It's perfectly acceptable to cut down the number of mobs you are tanking by letting a shaman or paladin have one with the instructions to mind themselves... neither are fragile and won't break. Besides it gives them something to pay attention to.

As a protection specced warrior, it's particularly offensive to me. I mean, come on, we are defense warriors. There is not a fucking lot we are really good at. Certainly not hurting things. People who tank could at least have the decency to master the moves, because there isn't much else that warriors do unless they are Mortal Strike arms fury cockslappers. It's like the joke:

"What do you call a party with two warriors?"
"'Out of shamans.'"

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-12-30 10:45pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:There are too many people who play warriors who just don't know how to tank right. Seriously. I've seen people attempt to tank in berserk stance with a two hander under the impression that if you do alot of damage, you hold aggro better. Or the guys who don't know about crowd control and hit sheeps to make sure they mobs they've got aggro on a mob (or throws around cleaves), then getting defensive when the mage swears at them and names them "Sheepfucker".

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....that's nearly as good as my encounters of Fury warriors thinking because they have two weapons it holds better aggro, and having the priest scream in chat about "Look fucker, I'm nearly pulling aggro healing your ass!!!"

As a protection specced warrior, it's particularly offensive to me. I mean, come on, we are defense warriors. There is not a fucking lot we are really good at. Certainly not hurting things. People who tank could at least have the decency to master the moves, because there isn't much else that warriors do unless they are Mortal Strike arms fury cockslappers. It's like the joke:

"What do you call a party with two warriors?"
"'Out of shamans.'"

I completely agree. I mean fuck, when I put a sword and board, I'm only ranking above Priests because I'm hitting something constantly. I'm not there for some massive DPS, I'm there to hold aggro.

Personally I despise people who think "You need to hit harder!!!"....not grasping hitting harder is not the point, Tanks get aggro in many ways...I mean fuck both Druids and Pallys....hell Shamans have abilites that are not hard hitting but for the purpose of grabbing aggro.

If I want to hit harder, I put on my Critical equipment and whip out my weapon of doom.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-12-30 11:19pm

Ghost Rider wrote:BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....that's nearly as good as my encounters of Fury warriors thinking because they have two weapons it holds better aggro, and having the priest scream in chat about "Look fucker, I'm nearly pulling aggro healing your ass!!!"

Priests can do that anyway if you aren't on the ball and they aren't fading and using big heals. There are plenty of times when a healer will be second on the hate list for a given mob due to healing and tend to beeline for them when you get mobs that clear their aggro table. Moron warriors who think that "Damage == Aggro" (which, to be fair, it partially true) just make the problem worse by taking on more damage that the healer has to generate aggro fixing.

I completely agree. I mean fuck, when I put a sword and board, I'm only ranking above Priests because I'm hitting something constantly. I'm not there for some massive DPS, I'm there to hold aggro.

Personally I despise people who think "You need to hit harder!!!"....not grasping hitting harder is not the point, Tanks get aggro in many ways...I mean fuck both Druids and Pallys....hell Shamans have abilites that are not hard hitting but for the purpose of grabbing aggro.

If I want to hit harder, I put on my Critical equipment and whip out my weapon of doom.

I know Shamans have abilities that will grab aggro and not let go. It's called "Rockbiter + Windfury Totem". A shaman does that and he's never gonna lose aggro unless you Mocking Blow the mob. It's all of two moves. Druids have a form dedicated to it and Bear Form isn't all that DPSish. I don't know much about Paladins, to be honest, but I'm sure they have at least some aggro control and everyone knows that Paladins can't put out big damage for shit.

I think that the Battlegrounds have given the Mortal Strike warriors a big head, really.

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MMORPGs - Who here plays them?

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