USMC vs Jedi

[Totenkopf]

How many US Marines would it take to kill a skilled Jedi master (Say Obi-Wan Kenobi or Mace Windu)?

[guyver]

Well there is only one Marine that could do that.......Gunnery Sgt Hartman


Where you from boy!!!!
Texas SIR!!!!

TEXAS....SHIT ONLY QUEERS AND STEERS COME FROM TEXAS..... AND I DON'T SEE ANY HORNS ON YOUR HEAD BOY...SO THAT MAKES EASY!!!

[Alyeska]

Provided the Marines know Jedi capabilities, I think that a relatively space combat formation of Marines armed with M4s could possibly take down the Jedi by trying to pin him down with supression fire.

[Sea Skimmer]

With luck and full information on the Jedi a platoon could do it, mabey. More likely you'd need a company for the heavy weapons.

[Howedar]

A squad or two, provided the Marines know of the Jedi's capabilities.

[Renewed_Valour1]

One Marine… in an AV-8B Harrier.

Seriously I’d squad or platoon level depending how well prepared and armed they are in addition to the environment.

[AdmiralKanos]

Keep in mind that the Jedi is probably not walking around in the middle of a flat field. In an urban environment, which is where Jedi spend most of their time, the Jedi ability to move quickly, stay out of sight, react to events before they happen, and detect their enemies without a line of sight would be lethal. Assuming the Jedi is in full killer mode, an awful lot of Marines would go down before they managed to get him.

[Vympel]

He's using an old Jedi mind trick .....

[Howedar]

Keep in mind that the Jedi is probably not walking around in the middle of a flat field. In an urban environment, which is where Jedi spend most of their time, the Jedi ability to move quickly, stay out of sight, react to events before they happen, and detect their enemies without a line of sight would be lethal. Assuming the Jedi is in full killer mode, an awful lot of Marines would go down before they managed to get him.

I think the premise is straight-on combat. However, such a hide-and-seek scenario would certainly increase USMC casualties.

[AdmiralKanos]

I think the premise is straight-on combat. However, such a hide-and-seek scenario would certainly increase USMC casualties.

Straight-on combat for sure, but a flat, open field would be a rather contrived locale for it. In a realistic locale, straight-on combat leads to lots of dead Marines, since straight-on combat means "using any trick you can to survive and kill the enemy", not "marching resolutely toward your foe while making no effort to lower your profile".

[Knife]

I think the premise is straight-on combat. However, such a hide-and-seek scenario would certainly increase USMC casualties.

Straight-on combat for sure, but a flat, open field would be a rather contrived locale for it. In a realistic locale, straight-on combat leads to lots of dead Marines, since straight-on combat means "using any trick you can to survive and kill the enemy", not "marching resolutely toward your foe while making no effort to lower your profile".

Nah, terrain always dictates and every Marine knows this. War by ambush has been the rule of the day for over two decades, thus using a platoon level of force will alot enough jar-heads to adaquatly bottle up the Jedi and employ a proper amount of combined weapons fire to kill the sucker.

Medium machineguns, SMAW'S, and 60mm mortars are organic to a Marine Company, therefore a platoon will benifit from a portion of these forces.

The unlucky Jedi might be able to defend himself from a 240 or so, but add that to the fire power of an added 9 SAW's and 9 M203's with various rounds to include HE, and fletchette. This would be on top of the 36 or so M16's and the two SMAW's that would be attached to the platoon. Mix in a shake and bake mission by the 60mm mortar's and you are looking at one overwelmed Jedi.

"From the hall's of the Jedi temple, to the shores of Tripoli.................."

[AdmiralKanos]

Nah, terrain always dictates and every Marine knows this. War by ambush has been the rule of the day for over two decades, thus using a platoon level of force will alot enough jar-heads to adaquatly bottle up the Jedi and employ a proper amount of combined weapons fire to kill the sucker.

Medium machineguns, SMAW'S, and 60mm mortars are organic to a Marine Company, therefore a platoon will benifit from a portion of these forces.

The unlucky Jedi might be able to defend himself from a 240 or so, but add that to the fire power of an added 9 SAW's and 9 M203's with various rounds to include HE, and fletchette. This would be on top of the 36 or so M16's and the two SMAW's that would be attached to the platoon. Mix in a shake and bake mission by the 60mm mortar's and you are looking at one overwelmed Jedi.

How will they know where he is? A normal enemy does not have the ability to influence your mind, sense when you won't be looking in a certain direction, move at superhuman speed, jump 60 feet up into the air, etc. It would be difficult to track such a person, and if you don't know where someone is, it's pretty hard to kill him, even with heavy weapons.

[Howedar]

With all respect to Jedi, when set on combat they don't seem to go for the low profile.

[DodoBrd16]

One Fire team.

Troops with M-16s get him into the right posistion and the guy with SAW sprays him with lead.


Either that or they just attack him from multiple direction using grenades and saturation fire.

[Lord of the Farce]

If we are talking about the Jedi starting out in the dark and has to wait around bascially as a moving firing range target, while the marines get to know the Jedi's capabilities before hand (but the Jedi doesn't get to know without having to find out), then the Jedi is pretty much dead against anything more than 2 marines with automatic weapons.

But, if we were to put them in a more realistic scenario (both or neither side know the other's capabilities, and is put into varied environments), and the Jedi is allowed to take full advantage of their powers, then you will have a lot of marines in lots of trouble. After all, it's kind of hard to fight when the enemy can quite literally run circles around you, and with a little trouble have your weapons' safety on just as you are firing, or have your holstered pistol suddenly firing down on your leg, or grenade pins mysteriously being pulled, shooting each other because of a gentle "suggestion", etc.

[Slartibartfast]

With all respect to Jedi, when set on combat they don't seem to go for the low profile.

Nope, they don't. They like to show off like in the battle in AoTC...

[AdmiralKanos]

With all respect to Jedi, when set on combat they don't seem to go for the low profile.

Go back and read the opening post of this thread. A skilled Jedi like Obi-Wan. We're not talking about the morons who got killed off in the Geonosis Arena. Obi-Wan snuck into the Geonosian tower and got back out again without being spotted. He and Qui-Gon slipped away from an entire army of battle droids on the TradeFed ship, and again on the surface. He moved like a wraith through the Death Star until he could shut off the tractor beam.

He would NOT stand up like an idiot and let the Marines know where he is. All of the tactics that assume they can easily track his location won't work. He can sense them around corners, influence their actions, use telekinesis against them, move around without being detected, etc.

[Durandal]

Well, if we're talking a Jedi Master like Yoda (like the poll says), look at what we're dealing with. Even in a state where his ability to use the Force had been diminished, he could still move rock and heavy machinery with some effort. Also, he simply up and lifted Luke's X-Wing in TESB, not to mention the little fucker was fast; he ran around Dooku and made him his bitch.

So, Yoda has the following:

Low target profile.
Extremely fast.
Can influence the minds of the commanding officers at the least.
Can sense danger with enough advanced warning to react.
Can life large, heavy craft the size of tanks or planes.

With the proper combat zone, Yoda may even be able to simply drop a building on some troops and then force the commander to order a retreat.

[Durandal]

Well, if we're talking a Jedi Master like Yoda (like the poll says), look at what we're dealing with. Even in a state where his ability to use the Force had been diminished, he could still move rock and heavy machinery with some effort. Also, he simply up and lifted Luke's X-Wing in TESB, not to mention the little fucker was fast; he ran around Dooku and made him his bitch.

So, Yoda has the following:

Low, small target profile.
Extremely fast.
Can influence the minds of the commanding officers at the least.
Can sense danger with enough advanced warning to react.
Can life large, heavy craft the size of tanks or planes.

With the proper combat zone, Yoda may even be able to simply drop a building on some troops and then use the Force make the commander to order a retreat.

[Durandal]

Oops. I meant to edit the above post, but the edit button wasn't there, and I accidentally clicked on "Quote" and made a few changes without checking to see if it was actually the edit screen. Please delete that post, as the delete button isn't showing up on it.

[Knife]

With all respect to Jedi, when set on combat they don't seem to go for the low profile.

Go back and read the opening post of this thread. A skilled Jedi like Obi-Wan. We're not talking about the morons who got killed off in the Geonosis Arena. Obi-Wan snuck into the Geonosian tower and got back out again without being spotted. He and Qui-Gon slipped away from an entire army of battle droids on the TradeFed ship, and again on the surface. He moved like a wraith through the Death Star until he could shut off the tractor beam.

He would NOT stand up like an idiot and let the Marines know where he is. All of the tactics that assume they can easily track his location won't work. He can sense them around corners, influence their actions, use telekinesis against them, move around without being detected, etc.

True, the individual tactics would vary and would change the fight depending on what the opponents did. However, standard procedure for the Jarheads would be to set up a patrol base with easily defendable fields of fire and commence security and or hunter killer patrols.

Weather the Jedi attack/stumbles upon the patrols or attacks/stumbles upon the defensive position, the marines have the advantage of combined arms to overwelm the Jedi. The Jedi has the advantage of slipping past any patrol or position, but thats not the objective of the thread.

If the Jedi annililate's a patrol using his superior individual fighting techniques, the platoon leader has the option of usisg FPL or prepositioned targets to do a recon by fire, and can saturate the area with rounds and indirect fire from the mortars, and 203's.

Its possible that a Jedi could infiltrate the defensive position but I am here to tell you that Marines get rather quite creative with their booby traps, early warning devices, and other improvised goodies. Plus, defensive pos. always utilizes defense in depth and interlocking fields of fire to protect against infiltration. Also, most commanders use a reserve that is located in the center of the pos. and can be sent to the side of the threat to sore up any breaches.

[Howedar]

Obi-Wan snuck into the Geonosian tower and got back out again without being spotted.

I'd hope so, since his goal was recon.

He and Qui-Gon slipped away from an entire army of battle droids on the TradeFed ship, and again on the surface.

That was their goal, to get away. Not to engage in combat.

He moved like a wraith through the Death Star until he could shut off the tractor beam.

Obi-Wan was trying to evade detection and shut off equipment, not kill some Stormies.

He would NOT stand up like an idiot and let the Marines know where he is.

Why not? Thats precisely what he did the two times he aimed to fight, on Naboo against Darth Maul and on Geonosis against Dooku.

[DodoBrd16]

I have only seen one Jedi ever run circles around an opponent(sp) and that would be yoda......well it was more like flipping circles........

And although Jedi on the screen are impressive, they dont seem to be all powerful beings and they can be overwhelmed by mass fire power.

And if we use the arena scene in AOTC as an example the primary attacks of the Jedi were either with their light sabres or force throws. Using the force to knock over their oponnents.

[Sea Skimmer]

Well if it was the arena instead of swarms of driod's charging out of the entrance tunnels it would be streams of tracers from the LAV-AD's parked inside of them, followed by the whistling of 60 and 81mm mortar rounds and a hail of fire from machine guns in the upper levels. Every lesser entrance would probably be collapsed by explosive charges.

Assuming the Marines don’t just have a flight of JDAM armed Harriers circling.

However the arena is not a realistic scenario.

[Darth Wong]

He would NOT stand up like an idiot and let the Marines know where he is.

Why not? Thats precisely what he did the two times he aimed to fight, on Naboo against Darth Maul and on Geonosis against Dooku.

One on one? Sure. But when outnumbered, he sneaks around. Look at their conduct against the droid army occupying Theed; did Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan march into the city and do battle head-on with the army? Of course not. That would be moronic. Instead, they snuck around and ambushed an isolated group.

The AOTC arena scene showed us that numbers and automatic weapons can take down Jedi, but this should not have come as a surprise (and of course, the Jedi in the gunship that got hit by AA fire couldn't do anything to prevent his death either), so it's hardly news that enough Marines could beat a Jedi in a kill-or-be-killed situation. The question is how many it would take, that's all this thread is asking. A half-dozen guys, for example, would not be enough.