"The Swarm War" Talkback (Spoilers)

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2005-12-29 05:48pm

Burak Gazan wrote:What's that like JME2? A large Holy Crap , on seeing just how badass both his old man and Obi-Wan really were, back in the day?

It's not the duel itself, just the confrontation with Padme. It's pretty shocking and almost impossible for Luke to watch. Remember, just because he redeemed Anakin at Endor doesn't mean he isn't still affected by Anakin's most terrible deeds as Vader. Regardless, the holos of Anakin are now more important than ever in that they show just how much like his grandfather Jacen has become mentally.

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2005-12-29 06:49pm

Aha, gotcha -- I was wondering how R2 had gotten ANY footage at all of the confrontation, but that tracks there. And if Luke is even 1/10 the Jedi Obi Wan was, there is but one resolution -- if the knucklehead writers follow the proper train of logic that is

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-12-29 07:13pm

until an EU author gets tired of the idea and through a plot device he instantly sees the light and becomes one again with the Jedi Order.

Possession by Palpatine's spirit...

Come on, with the EU you know that's plausible. :P

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2005-12-30 12:08am

VT-16 wrote:
until an EU author gets tired of the idea and through a plot device he instantly sees the light and becomes one again with the Jedi Order.
Possession by Palpatine's spirit...

Come on, with the EU you know that's plausible.

LOL. or that could happen.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2006-01-01 01:23pm

The arc has at least a few good bits in it. Jacen has developed into a character that is highly enlightened on the use of the Force, but very arrogant. Luke, meanwhile, is drawing back towards his more traditional view of the force, and by the end of the first book rejects the use of some darkside-associated powers.

I think the story would be more interesting if the insects, instead of being the plot device enemies/outside force, were part of the side story, with the real conflict being among the New Jedi Order. A real schism would be most interesting, with some of the more traditional style Jedi, who embrace serving the Republic (like Corran Horn) as one faction, while the 'Grey Jedi' become another faction. To some extent it is happening in the story, but it didn't go beyond arguments and some fighting between Corran and Kyp.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-01-01 04:09pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
in an assault choreographed by this new ‘Super Bothen’ Admiral who is implied to be as good as Thrawn for some reason.
I know that part. He beat a Thrawn simulator. Let me barf at the concept.

Wait, so anti-droid bias is the only thing stopping the military command structure of being populated with positronic AIs?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-01-01 09:38pm

I heard someone say there was mention of a Super-class Star Destroyer in this book. (

)

Is it said to be like the Executor or a different type of ship? I'm asking because McEwok (a.k.a. Arkady Hodge) now subscribes to the theory that only the Executor and the Lusankya were 19 km long vessels, with everyone else being 8 km Super-class ships. Apparently, he found some info on the back of some figurine collection made earlier this year, which hinted that these two ships were the only 19 km Executor-class vessels ever built.

SW ship-minimalism - it's not just size or strength of individual ships anymore, it's also the amount of ships. Ugh.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2006-01-01 09:56pm

Darth Raptor wrote:Wait, so anti-droid bias is the only thing stopping the military command structure of being populated with positronic AIs?

Either that, or that Thrawn simulator isn't as wanked up as it is supposed to be. To be fair, the Thrawn simulator's computer might have been huge, but then they could still install it on a Star Destroyer.

How the fuck are they supposed to get all the data to build a proper "Thrawn simulator" is quite beyond me. That would involve getting his genetic code AND his entire memory bank at least. That's the absolute minimum for emulating anybody, let alone someone like Thrawn.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-01-01 10:09pm

I think the whole "thrawn simulator" and the Uber-Bothan are a bit of a joke. Considering that Pellaeon is a bit higher up on the command chain and that the "super-bothan" had his ISD stolen out from under him (he's commanding an Anti-Pirate ISD btw.) sorta hint he's not literally some sort of Deus Ex Machina the way Thrawn gets portrayed. (Thrawn wouldn't get his flagship stolen from him by hippie bugs would he?)

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-01-02 12:54am

VT-16 wrote:I heard someone say there was mention of a Super-class Star Destroyer in this book. ( )

Those 8 km long ships from the last book are said to be as big as a Super class star destroyer.

Of course, the "as big as" can mean masses as much, and when it comes to reaction space ships mass is the critical measure of a ship making it even more paramount, making it even more likely that that is what they refer to.

Is it said to be like the Executor or a different type of ship? I'm asking because McEwok (a.k.a. Arkady Hodge) now subscribes to the theory that only the Executor and the Lusankya were 19 km long vessels, with everyone else being 8 km Super-class ships. Apparently, he found some info on the back of some figurine collection made earlier this year, which hinted that these two ships were the only 19 km Executor-class vessels ever built.

And of course hes vague about it rather then providing specific in context quotes, right?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2006-01-02 02:42am

Can someone please explain to me why Jacen has apparently become the main character in the Star Wars universe since the middle of the NJO? Does anybody like this kid? Anyone?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-01-02 03:21am

He was neat in Conquest. Oh, wait...

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-01-02 03:22am

They confuse "big" with "long" again. Eight kilometer long nest-ships, but ovoid or egg-shaped.

This new Bothan-genius was commanding a new version of a Victory-SD, not ISD.

Thrawn at least would have taken a closer look at those statues the DarkNest used to smuggle its bugs aboard.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-01-02 08:34am

Ender wrote:And of course hes vague about it rather then providing specific in context quotes, right?

Not this time:

Arkady Hodge wrote:Hang on just a darn minute!!!!

"It is possible that the Executor was the only ship of its type that was ever constructed, although the Lusankya - the ship of the director of Imperial intelligence service, Ysanne Isard - may have belonged to this class."
— Star Wars: The Official Figurine Collection Magazine #1, p. 013

Yikes! *starts laughing helplessly*

Strictly speaking, that quote leaves open the possibility that there were also other ships that "may have" been 19km as well... but it looks like what it's trying to say is that only Ex and maybe Lucy were 19km, and that most of the 5-mile Super Star Destroyers we've seen over the years, perhaps even including Lady Lucy, were exactly that...

As to evidence... well, we have canonical references to Ex as a Star Destroyer from ESB onwards, and "Super-class Star Destroyer" references all over the place, starting with the ISB and RASB; Executor-class Star Destroyer occurs in SoL, and I think Executor-class Super Star Destroyer appears some places (NEGtVV?)... but as to "Executor-class Star Dreadnought", the only evidence consists of one somewhat ambiguous phrase, "ultimate Star Dreadnoughts like the Executor".... --McEwok 19:08, 29 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-02 09:13am

It's his usual fucking moronic bullshit. There's no such thing as an 8km Super-class Star Destroyer, period.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-01-02 09:42am

Hodge and some other Wiki-douche claims this has been referenced in countless sources and that it is possible that such as class not only exists but also encompasses all Executor ships that are not the Executor or the Lusenkya. And as long as they think it's a possibility, they will make sure to have their voices heard.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-01-02 10:42am

I just finished The Swarm War. It was so bad i swear here and now never to buy another EU book.

Jacen is the worst character I've ever seen in the EU. Coran Horns arrogance, Lukes ability, Palpatines lack of consience, and Han Solo's cockyness all wraped up in one disgusting package. I want him to die a horrible death.

On the upside it was nice to see Leia kicking ass inspead of playing the diplomacy game for a change.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2006-01-02 11:32am

Lord Pounder wrote:I just finished The Swarm War. It was so bad i swear here and now never to buy another EU book.

Jacen is the worst character I've ever seen in the EU. Coran Horns arrogance, Lukes ability, Palpatines lack of consience, and Han Solo's cockyness all wraped up in one disgusting package. I want him to die a horrible death.

On the upside it was nice to see Leia kicking ass inspead of playing the diplomacy game for a change.

At least Corran seemed okay, and much more realistic than Jacen "We've got to do what WE feel is right, regardless of the Alliance, because they can't be trusted with our power."

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2006-01-02 01:18pm

Joe wrote:Can someone please explain to me why Jacen has apparently become the main character in the Star Wars universe since the middle of the NJO? Does anybody like this kid? Anyone?

*sigh* Anakin Solo was the one who should be inhabiting the position; DelRey was setting him up as Luke's sucessor (part of the reason he featured so prominetly in the Edge of Victory duology) until Lucas ordered them to kill him off. Why? So that people would not confuse him with Anakin Skywalker

What fucking bullshit...

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2006-01-02 01:25pm

JME2 wrote:
Joe wrote:Can someone please explain to me why Jacen has apparently become the main character in the Star Wars universe since the middle of the NJO? Does anybody like this kid? Anyone?
*sigh* Anakin Solo was the one who should be inhabiting the position; DelRey was setting him up as Luke's sucessor (part of the reason he featured so prominetly in the Edge of Victory duology) until Lucas ordered them to kill him off. Why? So that people would not confuse him with Anakin Skywalker

What fucking bullshit...

I know that story but got a solid quote that proves that it was for that reason?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-01-02 01:30pm

The trilogy wasn't that bad. Not outstanding, but hardly on the level of CrystalStar or DarkJourney.

I was almost under the impression, that Troy Denning tried to approach a more correct scale of the GFFA ( i say approach, because i think he still has to take care of the "older", more minimalistic EU).
So we have mentioned manufacturing worlds, a GA-flagship of unspecified class with at least 51 handars and 16 ion-engines, numbers of Killik-fighters numbering from 150,000 to 1 million, thirty (Chiss-)Star Destroyers plus support-ships in a single battle and hundreds of thousands (later clearified to really be more than hundred-thousand) soldiers as a single occupation-force. Compare this to Mrs. Traviss BS about the size of the clone-army or stuff from the ISB, where a single corps is thought to be sufficient to conquer a world.

I also liked Jacen. The same way i liked Anakin Skywalker in the prequels, despite him being an ass from time to time.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2006-01-02 01:32pm

Ace Pace wrote:
JME2 wrote:
Joe wrote:Can someone please explain to me why Jacen has apparently become the main character in the Star Wars universe since the middle of the NJO? Does anybody like this kid? Anyone?
*sigh* Anakin Solo was the one who should be inhabiting the position; DelRey was setting him up as Luke's sucessor (part of the reason he featured so prominetly in the Edge of Victory duology) until Lucas ordered them to kill him off. Why? So that people would not confuse him with Anakin Skywalker

What fucking bullshit...
I know that story but got a solid quote that proves that it was for that reason?

It comes from the NJO Roundtable discussion CD that came with the TUF hardback. Alas, I don't have access to it at the moment, so either we wait until later in the month when I do or someone else with TUF can get the quote.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2006-01-02 01:56pm

*sigh* Anakin Solo was the one who should be inhabiting the position; DelRey was setting him up as Luke's sucessor (part of the reason he featured so prominetly in the Edge of Victory duology) until Lucas ordered them to kill him off. Why? So that people would not confuse him with Anakin Skywalker

That's the reason they killed off Anakin? Are you fucking shitting me?

I guess that goes to show just how GL really couldn't give two shits about the EU.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-01-02 02:04pm

Joe wrote:
*sigh* Anakin Solo was the one who should be inhabiting the position; DelRey was setting him up as Luke's sucessor (part of the reason he featured so prominetly in the Edge of Victory duology) until Lucas ordered them to kill him off. Why? So that people would not confuse him with Anakin Skywalker
That's the reason they killed off Anakin? Are you fucking shitting me?

I guess that goes to show just how GL really couldn't give two shits about the EU.

Sshh. Dorkstar might hear you.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2006-01-02 02:36pm

Joe wrote:
*sigh* Anakin Solo was the one who should be inhabiting the position; DelRey was setting him up as Luke's sucessor (part of the reason he featured so prominetly in the Edge of Victory duology) until Lucas ordered them to kill him off. Why? So that people would not confuse him with Anakin Skywalker
That's the reason they killed off Anakin? Are you fucking shitting me?

Unless the NJO Roundtable was exaggerating, then yeah.