Evolution/Creation discussion

[meliora]

You're all begging for evidence...I'm a creationist and I say evolution has no evidence at all...I know this isn't an evolution/creation discussion, but I just think if you're going to attack people using science and history in these cases, you should back up your evolutionary claims with the same amount of proof.
It all comes down to creationism anyways. If you believe in the Judeo-Christian God, you will accept that things like a "talking shrubbery", a talking donkey, and worldwide floods are completely possible. If you're an evolutionist, you'll see all these as crazy because nature's laws don't allow for them. Of course, scientific law also makes evolution impossible, but we'll pass over that little problem, right ?
I'm not sure about the OT (I'll admit I haven't studied up on secular historical records from the OT times) but atleast for the New Testament, there are about 24,000 ancient copies of NT writings. Meanwhile, there are only 640-something for The Odyssey. If you're gonna say the NT cannot be supported, then you also have to toss out every other piece of ancient writing, all of antiquity, cuz nothing else has that much documentation, copies made so close to the time of the original writing, than the NT.
Jesus' crucifixion was recorded by 17 secular historians, so that is not disputable. But the impression I've gotten is that pretty much everyone believes Jesus existed, they just don't agree that he was who he said he was. Am I right here? Or are their people who don't think he ever existed?
The fact that the Bible was written over 1600 years, in 66 books, by more than 40 writers, on three continents and in three languages, while maintaining agreement throughout the whole text, plus the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus written hundreds, even thousands, of years before his birth, are all proof that there was a divine hand guiding the writers of the Bible. Every prophecy in the Bible, except those concerning the events of Revelation, have been fulfilled.
Jesus himself fulfilled 300 prophecies during his time on earth.The likelihood of that happening? For one person to fulfill just eight of those 300 prophecies, would be comparable to this:
-Build a small fence around Texas
-fill it two feet deep in silver dollars
-paint one red
-mix them all up
-starting at the Louisiana border, walk blindfolded as far into Texas as you want to go,
-lean over, still blindfolded,
-and pick up the red silver dollar
That's to fulfill just eight prophecies. No, I didn't figure that out, that's from a book by Mark Cahill.
Anywho, maybe that's not all 'historical' in the sense you were looking for, but that's some stuff to think about anyways.

[OmegaGuy]

You want my advice? Run away kid. Run faaaar away.

[Guardsman Bass]

You're all begging for evidence...I'm a creationist and I say evolution has no evidence at all...I know this isn't an evolution/creation discussion, but I just think if you're going to attack people using science and history in these cases, you should back up your evolutionary claims with the same amount of proof.

Nice red herring, not to mention hypocrisy. You admit that this isn't a debate about creationism vs evolution, but then go on to demand that we back up evolution. Tell me, when you found this site, did you bother to read the entire main page? If so, you might have noticed that there is a site called "Creationism vs Science," which answers creationist criticism and relieves us of the trouble of enlightening every concrete-for-brains that comes along and thinks he's a hard-ass Jesus fucker.

It all comes down to creationism anyways. If you believe in the Judeo-Christian God, you will accept that things like a "talking shrubbery", a talking donkey, and worldwide floods are completely possible. If you're an evolutionist, you'll see all these as crazy because nature's laws don't allow for them. Of course, scientific law also makes evolution impossible, but we'll pass over that little problem, right ?

Again, go to the fucking website, and don't mischaracterize christians; we have a decent number here who both believe in God and in evolution.

I'm not sure about the OT (I'll admit I haven't studied up on secular historical records from the OT times) but atleast for the New Testament, there are about 24,000 ancient copies of NT writings. Meanwhile, there are only 640-something for The Odyssey. If you're gonna say the NT cannot be supported, then you also have to toss out every other piece of ancient writing, all of antiquity, cuz nothing else has that much documentation, copies made so close to the time of the original writing, than the NT.

Tell me, did you not notice that the Odyssey is fictional writing? That's not mention that number of sources doesn't prove anything; if we have 20,000 people claiming that a giant dove flew above a certain sector of sky, but 100 photographs, from different angles and people, which show that there was nothing there, the 20,000 are fucked.

Jesus' crucifixion was recorded by 17 secular historians, so that is not disputable. But the impression I've gotten is that pretty much everyone believes Jesus existed, they just don't agree that he was who he said he was. Am I right here? Or are their people who don't think he ever existed?
The fact that the Bible was written over 1600 years, in 66 books, by more than 40 writers, on three continents and in three languages, while maintaining agreement throughout the whole text, plus the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus written hundreds, even thousands, of years before his birth, are all proof that there was a divine hand guiding the writers of the Bible. Every prophecy in the Bible, except those concerning the events of Revelation, have been fulfilled.

Why don't you name these secular authors? Not to mention that its hardly impressive that the Bible is the same over three continents, considering that the Catholic Vulgate dominated christianity for 1000 years, and the Protestants did nothing to change it.

Jesus himself fulfilled 300 prophecies during his time on earth.The likelihood of that happening? For one person to fulfill just eight of those 300 prophecies, would be comparable to this:
-Build a small fence around Texas
-fill it two feet deep in silver dollars
-paint one red
-mix them all up
-starting at the Louisiana border, walk blindfolded as far into Texas as you want to go,
-lean over, still blindfolded,
-and pick up the red silver dollar
That's to fulfill just eight prophecies. No, I didn't figure that out, that's from a book by Mark Cahill.
Anywho, maybe that's not all 'historical' in the sense you were looking for, but that's some stuff to think about anyways.

Name these prophecies, wonder boy. And by the way, I'll warn you that you are in standby for some major ass-fuckery if you try this again, without posting any evidence or decent arguments.

[Frank Hipper]

...If you're an evolutionist, you'll see all these as crazy because nature's laws don't allow for them. Of course, scientific law also makes evolution impossible, but we'll pass over that little problem, right ?

You show conclusively that evolution is impossible, and you've won yourself a Nobel Prize and made yourself the world's most famous scientist, just for starters.

You realise that, of course?

Why has no one thought of this before?

[Guardsman Bass]

...If you're an evolutionist, you'll see all these as crazy because nature's laws don't allow for them. Of course, scientific law also makes evolution impossible, but we'll pass over that little problem, right ?

You show conclusively that evolution is impossible, and you've won yourself a Nobel Prize and made yourself the world's most famous scientist, just for starters.

You realise that, of course?

Why has no one thought of this before?

Guys like meliora are truly a piece of work; they don't seem to be able to read, they don't bother to use logic or reason at all, and worst of all, they don't use proper grammar!

[Coyote]

You're all begging for evidence...I'm a creationist and I say evolution has no evidence at all...

Well, yumpin' yimminy, I'm a believing Jew that can see what is before my own eyes-- reliable scientific claims versus a story that is told mostly in allegory to Bronze Age tribes.

I know this isn't an evolution/creation discussion, but I just think if you're going to attack people using science and history in these cases, you should back up your evolutionary claims with the same amount of proof.

I'm sure we'll be happy to oblige. Also, you can point out where you get your claim that science and evolution has no proof.

It all comes down to creationism anyways.

Saying it is so does not make it so.

If you believe in the Judeo-Christian God, you will accept that things like a "talking shrubbery", a talking donkey, and worldwide floods are completely possible.

'Scuse me? You're telling me whgat I belive? I believe in God and I can also see that these are tales and allegory, or minor events inflated through time, myth and fantasy to make an entertaining tale.

If you're an evolutionist, you'll see all these as crazy because nature's laws don't allow for them. Of course, scientific law also makes evolution impossible, but we'll pass over that little problem, right ?

Dew tell!

...for the New Testament, there are about 24,000 ancient copies of NT writings.

There are over a million copies of Diantetics in circulation, so you believe in Scientology too, right?

Meanwhile, there are only 640-something for The Odyssey.

Which also has fantastic tales in it, giant cyclops, snake head women that turn you to stone...what's not to believe? The difference is that no one has made a world-wide religion out of the Odyssey or threatened to damn you to eternal hellfire and pain if you don't believe it.

If you're gonna say the NT cannot be supported, then you also have to toss out every other piece of ancient writing, all of antiquity,

Why? Says you? The New Testament was written, yes, and shared copiusly because people believed it as a religious belief. That it was shared so much and very quickly does not make it true. Star Wars was almost universally embraced by the nations of the world within a few months of release, thus breaking the NT's record. So why not become a Jedi?

... cuz nothing else has that much documentation, copies made so close to the time of the original writing, than the NT.

Well, let's see, I know that Ancient Egypt existed because, well, there's all those pyramids, and all those tombs, mummies, heiroglyphs... the world has evidence of dinosaurs, footprints in mud 25,000+ years old, collections of flint chips from campsite tool-making that are even older... and compared to that, a popular book that said none of that stuff existed before 5,000 years. Uh-huh, yeah.

Jesus' crucifixion was recorded by 17 secular historians, so that is not disputable.

Golly gee whiz, crucifixion was a common method of capitol punishment in the Roman world. At times much of the Appian Way on the Italian Penninsula were lined with renegades and criminals being executed on crosses. Do you honestly think Jesus was the only person crucified? He wasn't special... he was, in the eyes of many, an annoying political agitator and nothing more. He was executed in the same manner as every other Tom, Dick and Haroldicus was that torqued off Rome. The Roman governer, Pilate, actually tried to get Jesus tossed out of court as a waste of Roman resources to crucify another he thought was more dangerous.

But the impression I've gotten is that pretty much everyone believes Jesus existed, they just don't agree that he was who he said he was. Am I right here? Or are their people who don't think he ever existed?

By all means, please find for us the place where we said he didn't exist. At worst you may find from time to time someone saying that Jesus is a representative character, a collection of different wanna-be Messiahs written into one character for convenience.

The fact that the Bible was written over 1600 years, in 66 books, by more than 40 writers, on three continents and in three languages...

See above, re: Scientology. And Star Wars.

... while maintaining agreement throughout the whole text,

Have you actually read a New Testament all the way through? It most assuredely does not match up.

... plus the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus written hundreds, even thousands, of years before his birth,

How about the prophesies that he did not fulfill? The Messiah is supposed to be born of Jesse and come to the entrance to Jerusalem on a white donkey led by one of the prophets. There's a start.

... are all proof that there was a divine hand guiding the writers of the Bible.

No, it is proof that a lot of people with a vested interest in spreading their power structure had a hand in writing the Bible.

Every prophecy in the Bible, except those concerning the events of Revelation, have been fulfilled. Jesus himself fulfilled 300 prophecies during his time on earth.

Name them.

The likelihood of that happening? For one person to fulfill just eight of those 300 prophecies, would be comparable to this:...

[crazy-ass scenario of Quarters in Texas snipped]

Um, you realize that Jesus's status as a Messiah was based on thousands-year-old prophesies that were already written down in the Torah, right? You said it yourself up above, in fact. So if you have a guy that wants to pass himself off as a Prophet or Messiah, all he has to do is read the script and do what is expected of him and say "see! It's me!" Jesus was a Jew, and so had access to the Jewish prophesies.

That's to fulfill just eight prophecies. No, I didn't figure that out, that's from a book by Mark Cahill.

Appeal to (nebulous) authority. Who is Mark Cahill, and why should we care?

Anywho, maybe that's not all 'historical' in the sense you were looking for, but that's some stuff to think about anyways.

Well, actually, having actually studied Biblical history in the very land it was invented, I can assure you that it has already been thoroughly thought about by many others and been found wanting. You need a lot better than "it's true because the Bible sez so!" and "Jesus existed and someone wrote down his biography so it's all true!!!"

Evidence is not the same as Belief; Proof is not the same as Faith.


(edited for misspellings and a bad quote tag)

[Surlethe]

You're all begging for evidence...I'm a creationist and I say evolution has no evidence at all...

Then you're also an ignorant, inbred moron.

I know this isn't an evolution/creation discussion, but I just think if you're going to attack people using science and history in these cases, you should back up your evolutionary claims with the same amount of proof.

Done. By scientists. You know, those people who know what they're talking about?

It all comes down to creationism anyways. If you believe in the Judeo-Christian God, you will accept that things like a "talking shrubbery", a talking donkey, and worldwide floods are completely possible. If you're an evolutionist, you'll see all these as crazy because nature's laws don't allow for them.

And then, there are those of us who see the difference between belief and evidence. I, for instance, believe Jesus died for my sins. Why should I require evidence? It's an irrational belief.

Of course, scientific law also makes evolution impossible, but we'll pass over that little problem, right ?

Bullshit. Let's hear this little scientific law -- and right now, I'll point out this isn't a closed system, so don't bring up the fucking Second Law of Thermodynamics.

I'm not sure about the OT (I'll admit I haven't studied up on secular historical records from the OT times) but atleast for the New Testament, there are about 24,000 ancient copies of NT writings. Meanwhile, there are only 640-something for The Odyssey. If you're gonna say the NT cannot be supported, then you also have to toss out every other piece of ancient writing, all of antiquity, cuz nothing else has that much documentation, copies made so close to the time of the original writing, than the NT.

So, the Bible supports itself. This, of course, begs the question.

Jesus' crucifixion was recorded by 17 secular historians, so that is not disputable. But the impression I've gotten is that pretty much everyone believes Jesus existed, they just don't agree that he was who he said he was. Am I right here? Or are their people who don't think he ever existed?

Sure; let's hear of these 17 secular historians. In fact, why don't you provide evidence, in the form of excerpts, of those 17 secular historians discussing Jesus' crucifixion?

The fact that the Bible was written over 1600 years, in 66 books, by more than 40 writers, on three continents and in three languages, while maintaining agreement throughout the whole text, plus the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus written hundreds, even thousands, of years before his birth, are all proof that there was a divine hand guiding the writers of the Bible. Every prophecy in the Bible, except those concerning the events of Revelation, have been fulfilled.

Free of inconsistencies, such as a loving God in the NT, and a punishing God of wrath in the OT? Oh, wait; that's right. Never mind.

Jesus himself fulfilled 300 prophecies during his time on earth.The likelihood of that happening? For one person to fulfill just eight of those 300 prophecies, would be comparable to this:
-Build a small fence around Texas
-fill it two feet deep in silver dollars
-paint one red
-mix them all up
-starting at the Louisiana border, walk blindfolded as far into Texas as you want to go,
-lean over, still blindfolded,
-and pick up the red silver dollar
That's to fulfill just eight prophecies. No, I didn't figure that out, that's from a book by Mark Cahill.

Why? Why should fulfilling even eight of them be equivalent to that? Provide the reasoning behind the analogy.

Anywho, maybe that's not all 'historical' in the sense you were looking for, but that's some stuff to think about anyways.

No, it's a whole load of circular reasoning, with catshit thrown in for giggles.

[Surlethe]

You want my advice? Run away kid. Run faaaar away.

This is hilarious! Someone should sig this. In any case, if he posts even once more, he's in for an assraping his mother's anus will feel.

[Ghost Rider]

Split because it was a hijack, and deserves it's own topic for......discussion.

[Coyote]

What Timing!

Thanks be to Plekhanov for posting this tidbit in the News & Politics section.

[Guardsman Bass]

Split because it was a hijack, and deserves it's own topic for......discussion.

Are you sure? This looks like it's going to turn into a slaughterfest dogpile on Meliora, which, if he bothers to respond, will ultimately end up with him banned. Could you close it?

[Coyote]

Are you sure? This looks like it's going to turn into a slaughterfest dogpile on Meliora, which, if he bothers to respond, will ultimately end up with him banned. Could you close it?

Let's see if meliora has anything to say, give him a fair shot at defending himself, and not make it look like sentence has already been passed before the jury is even done convening.

--although, having seen this story before by others, I have little optimism.

[Dalton]

You want my advice? Run away kid. Run faaaar away.

This is hilarious! Someone should sig this. In any case, if he posts even once more, he's in for an assraping his mother's anus will feel.

She, according to her Xanga page.

[Dalton]

You're all begging for evidence...I'm a creationist and I say evolution has no evidence at all...

Then you are ignorant and the rest of your "argument" can be dismissed as your own self-generated delusion.

[SirNitram]

Once again, I am baffled by the inability of so many Christians to understand what a 'fable' or 'allegory' is. Seriously, what the fuck? Pagans understand it, Jews understand it, I know some Christians get it.. Are you just really freakin' dumb?

[Solauren]

Oh look, a brainwashed 18 year old spouting off garbage.

I looked over your blog page there kid. You know what you remind me of? A typical, braindead 18 year old girl that needs to get laid something bad, and needs to learn to think on her own, not with her telephone or parents credit card.

(Note to other members; I do not believe all girls are like this, but hang on for a moment)

We've all run into the type. Your the churchy/creationist version of a Paris Hilton. Stupid airhead, with no substance, no intelligence, and who's only contribution to society will be to give some asshole a girlfriend/wife, so that an intelligent, useful woman won't have to put up with him, or as a low grade fluffer in the porn-industry.

Personal attack? Damn right. However, if your to lazy, or cowardly, or stupid, to read the mainsite or the 'Creation Theory debunking' website, or to email Lord Wong directly, that's what you deserve.

[Guardsman Bass]

Oh look, a brainwashed 18 year old spouting off garbage.

I looked over your blog page there kid. You know what you remind me of? A typical, braindead 18 year old girl that needs to get laid something bad, and needs to learn to think on her own, not with her telephone or parents credit card.

(Note to other members; I do not believe all girls are like this, but hang on for a moment)

We've all run into the type. Your the churchy/creationist version of a Paris Hilton. Stupid airhead, with no substance, no intelligence, and who's only contribution to society will be to give some asshole a girlfriend/wife, so that an intelligent, useful woman won't have to put up with him, or as a low grade fluffer in the porn-industry.

Personal attack? Damn right. However, if your to lazy, or cowardly, or stupid, to read the mainsite or the 'Creation Theory debunking' website, or to email Lord Wong directly, that's what you deserve.

Ouch, Solauren. I think maybe you should have gone a little easy on the personal attacks; she is very new, with only about 3 or 4 posts. Reform may be possible if she doesn't have a head full of lead.

[LadyTevar]

*winces at the abuse heaped on the poor little creationist*

Meliora, the Sword of Truth and Armor of Faith does not work in this forum. I do not know which denomination you belong to, since you mention 300 prophacies which I'd never heard of any church I've been to, but you need more than 'The Bible Said So!' to prove your point.

The Bible is our guide to Christ, and how to live like Christ. It is suggestions, not hard rules. There is no war between Science and Faith, unless you make one. Do not be a Pharisee blinded by law and tradition, open your eyes and look for yourself. God gave you a brain, and free will to find your own path. Do not let blinders be put upon your eyes, but seek the truth yourself.

Wong's Science v/s Creationism page is a great place to start.

[Ghost Rider]

Split because it was a hijack, and deserves it's own topic for......discussion.

Are you sure? This looks like it's going to turn into a slaughterfest dogpile on Meliora, which, if he bothers to respond, will ultimately end up with him banned. Could you close it?

We should always give the condem...new posters a shot, even ones that come in blustering.

Maybe we'll get surprised...then again maybe not.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Joy! I always miss these morons coming on the board now. Finally, I've caught one in the act before page 2. I am eager to hear more of these groundbreaking pieces of evidence for Creationism that have thus far eluded the entire scientific community.

[LordShaithis]

Hoo boy, like a lamb to the slaughter.

Listen kid, go read the "Creationism vs Science" page from this site. Then go read your Bible a little bit, because you don't seem to know it as well as you think. Then come back and tell us in specific scientific terms just WHY you think evolution is impossible.

Understand? This is not a board where you can get away with being vague. So far you sound like a kid who read a couple of creationist websites without realizing that there's more to tell.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Since he mentions a law forbids evolution, he likely believes in the 2nd law of thermodynamics forbidding the formation of life on Earth. This would be funny, if only it wasn't such a tired and ridiculously easy "argument" to refute. No one uses it anymore, no one with any real sense of doing their side justice at least.

[Rye]

You're all begging for evidence...I'm a creationist and I say evolution has no evidence at all...I know this isn't an evolution/creation discussion, but I just think if you're going to attack people using science and history in these cases, you should back up your evolutionary claims with the same amount of proof.

"La la la, I believe my invisible friend created the world by magic, and because I'm homeschooled, or because my pastor said so, i know there isn't any evidence for common ancestry or an old earth and like, all these millions of animals got on board a boat and.." SHUT THE HELL UP. Look at any goddamned anthropology textbook. Read Origin of the Species, read modern biology textbooks, understand WHY these conclusions are well reasoned, and why "I don't like the conclusion therefore the evidence is invalid" is faulty reasoning.

It all comes down to creationism anyways. If you believe in the Judeo-Christian God, you will accept that things like a "talking shrubbery", a talking donkey, and worldwide floods are completely possible. If you're an evolutionist, you'll see all these as crazy because nature's laws don't allow for them. Of course, scientific law also makes evolution impossible, but we'll pass over that little problem, right ?

Yes, CREATION SCIENTISTS are the only people that have noticed this and all the absent minded boffins in their ivory towers ignore it because they want to avoid God.

Oh wait no, creation scientists are fucking liars, morbidly fearful that their theology is in error, and lie about everything they see as a threat. That's why you idiots are always cooking up little lying version of the laws of thermodynamics and similar. Because you will not comprehend anything if it offends you. Pathetic.

I'm not sure about the OT (I'll admit I haven't studied up on secular historical records from the OT times) but atleast for the New Testament, there are about 24,000 ancient copies of NT writings. Meanwhile, there are only 640-something for The Odyssey. If you're gonna say the NT cannot be supported, then you also have to toss out every other piece of ancient writing, all of antiquity, cuz nothing else has that much documentation, copies made so close to the time of the original writing, than the NT.

Haha, way to sound like an inbred, homeschooled hick, "cuz" indeed. Explain how copying a text makes it true or verified, please.

Jesus' crucifixion was recorded by 17 secular historians, so that is not disputable.

What the fuck?! No it wasn't!

But the impression I've gotten is that pretty much everyone believes Jesus existed, they just don't agree that he was who he said he was. Am I right here? Or are their people who don't think he ever existed?

The main consensus is that he was a real guy that subsequently got the shit mythologised out of him. Check out the "Jesus Seminar" if it ever comes near you and if you're at all interested in education on the matter. There are people that don't think he existed, of course, since, well, the best arguments for his existence are axiomatic; "we have a hypothetical text of sayings that the synoptic gospels used that Mark didn't have access to, we will attribute these to a historical Jesus rather than some other random guy from the street," for instance. It is distinctly possible that someone just made up a messianic candidate and it was a popular idea, but it's just easier and, imo, makes more sense to assume such a movement started with an actual guy rather than just some sort of Keyzer Soze phenomenon.

That said, however, it's also the consensus that much of the gospels are hero worship, and little normal stuff (stuff without mythological overtones) can be corroborated, some bits are flatly wrong (mark 7 geography for instance) and they all contradict one another, though they obviously used one another as references, too.

The fact that the Bible was written over 1600 years, in 66 books, by more than 40 writers, on three continents and in three languages, while maintaining agreement throughout the whole text,

No such agreement exists. Read Ezra and Nehemiah and tell me they agree (these were even originally the same book!).

plus the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus written hundreds, even thousands, of years before his birth,

No, that's called shoehorning (ad hoc eisegesis - reading your own intent into the text, rather than reading the meaning out of the text), if it were true, he wouldn't have to come back, now would he?

are all proof that there was a divine hand guiding the writers of the Bible.

The Bible is not that great, you simply idolise it because you were taught to. Your "divine hand" has itself saying that it keeps snow and hail in warehouses for times of war. That is hilarious.

Every prophecy in the Bible, except those concerning the events of Revelation, have been fulfilled.

Nope, there are lots of failed prophecies, YHVH's land promise to the patriarchs, for instance, and several messiah ones that Jesus never finished before he died, automatically invalidating him. Not to mention the curse on Jechoniah's bloodline, preventing him from EVER being on David's throne.

Jesus himself fulfilled 300 prophecies during his time on earth.The likelihood of that happening? For one person to fulfill just eight of those 300 prophecies, would be comparable to this:

Wow, an analogy, that sure proves nothing! I could find a jewish paramedic in New York that fulfills as many prophecies as Jesus if I'm allowed to use the retroactive shoehorning and mythologising of the gospel authors.

That's to fulfill just eight prophecies. No, I didn't figure that out, that's from a book by Mark Cahill.

Note the page I just posted of my own work regarding prophecies Jesus failed, invalidating him from beign the messiah, also, check out the prophecies you claim Jesus fulfilled, and their source context, since most of the time, they are bullshit eisegesis that have nothing to do with the original prophecy.

Anywho, maybe that's not all 'historical' in the sense you were looking for, but that's some stuff to think about anyways.

Been done before, it's a whole nonsensical parade of apologetics, ad hoc rationalisation and lies.

Oh, and by the way, thermodynamics prohibits God and Hell.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

You're all begging for evidence...I'm a creationist and I say evolution has no evidence at all

*Dons flame-retardant suit and equips Sword of Logic and Shield of Reason*

First of all: Talk.origins Evolution is a fact and theory FAQ

Talk.origins Evolutionary Biology FAQ

Talk.origins Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution article.

Plenty of cited evolution evidence there. And, while it's a bit of a dry read, it's not entirely inaccessible to the layperson.

...I know this isn't an evolution/creation discussion, but I just think if you're going to attack people using science and history in these cases, you should back up your evolutionary claims with the same amount of proof.

Done, see above.

Of course, scientific law also makes evolution impossible, but we'll pass over that little problem, right ?

Given that evolution is a widely accepted scientific theory with a mountain of evidence bigger than Olympus Mons, it is the most extreme ignorance to state that evolution is impossible, and state it with a straight face. Again, see above.

I'm not sure about the OT (I'll admit I haven't studied up on secular historical records from the OT times) but atleast for the New Testament, there are about 24,000 ancient copies of NT writings. Meanwhile, there are only 640-something for The Odyssey. If you're gonna say the NT cannot be supported, then you also have to toss out every other piece of ancient writing, all of antiquity, cuz nothing else has that much documentation, copies made so close to the time of the original writing, than the NT.
Jesus' crucifixion was recorded by 17 secular historians, so that is not disputable.

Name your historians and cite your sources. Most non-Bible historical references to Jesus are generally about his followers and their cult. Descriptions of the life and times of Jesus himself are almost always only found in the Gospels and the New Testament apocrypha and these are not always internally self-consistent.

Of course, 2000 years from now, someone remarkably like you will be trying to argue that Harry Potter was a real person due to the millions and millions of copies of Harry Potter books currently extant.

The fact that the Bible was written over 1600 years, in 66 books, by more than 40 writers, on three continents and in three languages, while maintaining agreement throughout the whole text,

The Biblical tales were not passed down unmodified, and unmolested in their pure, virginal forms, unsullied by the pens of men with widely varying agendas. The Bible in the form we know it today was established by committee in the first few centuries AD. And there are glaring inconsistencies throughout the Bible as can be seen here.

plus the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus written hundreds, even thousands, of years before his birth, are all proof that there was a divine hand guiding the writers of the Bible. Every prophecy in the Bible, except those concerning the events of Revelation, have been fulfilled.

Jesus failed to fulfill the messianic prophecies in the Israelite writings that came before him. He failed the prophecy in Zechariah 9:9, as the messiah in that prophecy was supposed to be a great military ruler. Other "prophecies" about Jesus in the OT were misquotes or willfull misinterpretations of verses describing events that were contemporary to the original writers. See here.

Jesus himself fulfilled 300 prophecies during his time on earth.

What prophecies? The only way Jesus could have fulfilled any "prophecy" was by a wonky reinterpretation after-the-fact. About the only prophecy he has fulfilled is:

And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

This, of course, ignores the fact that Jesus himself said he'd return in the lifetime of his disciples. Unless they're all sword-wielding immortals with Scottish accents, it's fairly safe to say he got that one wrong.

[SpacedTeddyBear]

We should always give the condem...new posters a shot, even ones that come in blustering.

Maybe we'll get surprised...then again maybe not.

I don't know. Like Bassman said, reform is possible, but not likely. Her blog apparently reveals her character as your typical high schooler who thinks she's an expert in everything because she has high SAT scores. Then there's all the god stuff......

Anyways, if you plan on sticking around might I suggest you read the board policies here: here.