Evolution/Creation discussion

[defanatic]

You're all begging for evidence...I'm a creationist and I say evolution has no evidence at all

Because you are lying? Evolution has plenty of evidence. But even if it didn't, it wouldn't mean creationism was right anyway.

...I know this isn't an evolution/creation discussion, but I just think if you're going to attack people using science and history in these cases, you should back up your evolutionary claims with the same amount of proof.

Oh my gawd.

It all comes down to creationism anyways. If you believe in the Judeo-Christian God, you will accept that things like a "talking shrubbery", a talking donkey, and worldwide floods are completely possible.

They are completely possible. I agree. Now explain how.

If you're an evolutionist, you'll see all these as crazy because nature's laws don't allow for them. Of course, scientific law also makes evolution impossible, but we'll pass over that little problem, right ?

No it doesn't. You're quite clearly talking about the second law of thermodynamics, which, if you didn't know is:
"There is no process where the sole result is the transfer of heat from a cold object to a hot one."

I'm not sure about the OT (I'll admit I haven't studied up on secular historical records from the OT times) but atleast for the New Testament, there are about 24,000 ancient copies of NT writings. Meanwhile, there are only 640-something for The Odyssey.

Ok. If you are going to go through with this, the New Testament is a completely authentic piece of fiction. Even more so than the Odyssey.

If you're gonna say the NT cannot be supported, then you also have to toss out every other piece of ancient writing, all of antiquity, cuz nothing else has that much documentation, copies made so close to the time of the original writing, than the NT.

Really? Tell me more. Unless, of course, this is a "hit&run" attack.

Jesus' crucifixion was recorded by 17 secular historians, so that is not disputable. But the impression I've gotten is that pretty much everyone believes Jesus existed, they just don't agree that he was who he said he was. Am I right here? Or are their people who don't think he ever existed?

The earliest time at which Jesus could possibly be mentioned was 70 AD. 40 years is enough time to make up a person.

The fact that the Bible was written over 1600 years, in 66 books, by more than 40 writers, on three continents and in three languages,

No wonder it has soo many internal contradictions.

while maintaining agreement throughout the whole text, plus the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus written hundreds, even thousands, of years before his birth, are all proof that there was a divine hand guiding the writers of the Bible.

Um... Also, Jesus fulfilled no prophecies, and any he may have were probably added in by the Roman Senate.

Every prophecy in the Bible, except those concerning the events of Revelation, have been fulfilled.

Are they specific? Otherwise, they do not count.

Jesus himself fulfilled 300 prophecies during his time on earth.The likelihood of that happening? For one person to fulfill just eight of those 300 prophecies, would be comparable to this:
-Build a small fence around Texas
-fill it two feet deep in silver dollars
-paint one red
-mix them all up
-starting at the Louisiana border, walk blindfolded as far into Texas as you want to go,
-lean over, still blindfolded,
-and pick up the red silver dollar
That's to fulfill just eight prophecies. No, I didn't figure that out, that's from a book by Mark Cahill.

But if the character Jesus was designed to fulfill prophecies, then it wouldn't be as bad a chance.

Anywho, maybe that's not all 'historical' in the sense you were looking for, but that's some stuff to think about anyways.

Because, see, we haven't seen these before. Ever. I swear.

[Darth Servo]

the events of Revelation, have been fulfilled.
Jesus himself fulfilled 300 prophecies during his time on earth.The likelihood of that happening? For one person to fulfill just eight of those 300 prophecies, would be comparable to this:
-Build a small fence around Texas
-fill it two feet deep in silver dollars
-paint one red
-mix them all up
-starting at the Louisiana border, walk blindfolded as far into Texas as you want to go,
-lean over, still blindfolded,
-and pick up the red silver dollar
That's to fulfill just eight prophecies. No, I didn't figure that out, that's from a book by Mark Cahill.
Anywho, maybe that's not all 'historical' in the sense you were looking for, but that's some stuff to think about anyways.

Given that most of those prophecies are so vague that they could apply to anything, your probability calcs are nonsense. And guess what, one of the prophecies Jesus supposedly fulfiled doesn't even EXIST.

And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

The Old Testament contains no such prophecy.

[Lonestar]

I don't think she's coming back...

[Darth Wong]

Oh no, what a terrible loss.

[Guardsman Bass]

Yeah, well, she is a redshirt. She has yet to develop flame-retardant calluses and grow a logical brain.

[wautd]

Hardly suprising. She either

a) assumed she already "won" the "discussion" at post #1 and went back to her fundie forum to brag about her victory

or

b) stayed a bit longer to see argument she made was refuted and runs crying back to her fundie forum to tell what big meanies we were

[Ghost Rider]

Hell, she never responded. She blithered and left.

And as such, thread locked, since this won't produce anything useful.