What if you were in Anakin's shoes ?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2006-01-04 01:43am

What if you were in control of Anakin's actions right after he had severed Mace Windu's hand and watched him die by Palpatine’s lightning ? What would your next actions be ? Would you do as Anakin did or reject the dark side ? Personally I would try to lie to Palpatine about joining him and hope he does not sense a deception. While en route to the Jedi temple I break off from the storm trooper force and try to contact Obiwan. Tell him what I did to Windu and that this is not the best time to judge me and ask his help in saving whatever Jedi survived order 66. After that it becomes a conflict between Anakin and surviving Jedi versus the newly formed Empire. Of course it all depends on the possibility that Palpatine buys the lie in the first place. If he does not just attack him right there and hope prophecy of the chosen one will ensure Anakin's victory.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2006-01-04 02:24am

I'd just finish him off right then and there before he can even get up, he's still winded from his fight with Windu and unleashing his "unlimited power" and I doubt he'd be prepared for Anakin to just suddenly go full force on him without warning.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-01-04 02:51am

Easier said then done. The Darkside is a very powerful thing. I've personally considered it to be very like the One Ring of Power from LotR. The Darkside speaks to you, convinces you your actions are just. It will twist you and use you. Just as the Lightside of the force obeys your commands and controls your actions the Darkside can too. "Once you start down the Dark path, forever will it hold your destiny" as one quite famous Master put it.

Darth Cronos the Proud · Post by **Darth Cronos the Proud** » 2006-01-04 03:51am

I might be the only one, but I'd do exactly as Anakin did after he helped kill Windu. I would rather submit to Palpatine and save the one I love and damn the rest of the galaxy (you have to remember that Anakin wouldn't know that he'd Force-Choke Padme and that the Emperor would lie about him killing her) This is, of course, basing my decision on having the same knowledge that Anakin did at the time and not using some 20/20 hindsight (this is the only logical way to put yourself in Anakin's shoes and make a decision)

To tell you the truth, the moment that I realized that the Jedi Order was all about detachment (you couldn't have a family or have deep emotional attachments to people) I would have bagged the Jedi Order and started looking around for a Sith Master to latch onto. And I think that Anakin would have went this route if he hadn't been hijacked by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and wisked away to Coruscant and placed in the Order.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-01-04 10:55am

Darth Cronos the Proud wrote:I might be the only one, but I'd do exactly as Anakin did after he helped kill Windu. I would rather submit to Palpatine and save the one I love and damn the rest of the galaxy (you have to remember that Anakin wouldn't know that he'd Force-Choke Padme and that the Emperor would lie about him killing her)

Palpatine immediately says he's lying and doesn't know how to save her. I should hope you're not as mind-bogglingly stupid as Anakin, and would notice this.

Darth Cronos the Proud · Post by **Darth Cronos the Proud** » 2006-01-04 11:34am

NecronLord wrote:
Darth Cronos the Proud wrote:I might be the only one, but I'd do exactly as Anakin did after he helped kill Windu. I would rather submit to Palpatine and save the one I love and damn the rest of the galaxy (you have to remember that Anakin wouldn't know that he'd Force-Choke Padme and that the Emperor would lie about him killing her)
Palpatine immediately says he's lying and doesn't know how to save her. I should hope you're not as mind-bogglingly stupid as Anakin, and would notice this.

I should hope you're not as mind-bogglingly stupid as to forget that we're supposed to be in Anakin's shoes. Palpatine said that if they worked together they could find the secret. With myself (in Anakin's shoes) and Palpatine, both extremely powerful Force users, I'd be willing to take the chance. The ends justify the means. It's better to take a chance and find out you're wrong then to never take the chance, wonder "what if" and live with the guilt of knowing you could have tried something and didn't. That's what it means to love someone: you'd do anything for them, even damn your own soul.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2006-01-04 12:03pm

If I've only just cut off Mace's hand, he's still alive, so, as I cut off his hand, rather than extinguish my lightsaber, I end the downswing on Palpatine's neck. Or perhaps it's best if Mace doesn't survive, since I have strong doubts as to whether he would help me. Yes, he will die. I'll inform the others that Palpatine killed me moments after I entered the room, but he was tired after that, so I was able to kill the Chancellor. I try to lead the Jedi Order into a more liberal era as I also take emergency powers and declare myself Sovereign of the Republic.

I should hope you're not as mind-bogglingly stupid as to forget that we're supposed to be in Anakin's shoes. Palpatine said that if they worked together they could find the secret. With myself (in Anakin's shoes) and Palpatine, both extremely powerful Force users, I'd be willing to take the chance. The ends justify the means. It's better to take a chance and find out you're wrong then to never take the chance, wonder "what if" and live with the guilt of knowing you could have tried something and didn't. That's what it means to love someone: you'd do anything for them, even damn your own soul.

Hey, remember how it was Anakin's turn to the Dark Side which caused Padme's death? And how you're supposed to know this if you were put in his shoes, since that's the whole goddamn point?

Easier said then done. The Darkside is a very powerful thing. I've personally considered it to be very like the One Ring of Power from LotR. The Darkside speaks to you, convinces you your actions are just. It will twist you and use you. Just as the Lightside of the force obeys your commands and controls your actions the Darkside can too. "Once you start down the Dark path, forever will it hold your destiny" as one quite famous Master put it.

Yes, but you aren't controlled by the Dark Side, unless you've been out telekinetically choking people recently. Anakin's mind may have been clouded, but you are a clean slate, devoid of his own problems, since this examines what you would do if put in his situation. The Force was tied to his mind and soul, and you replace both of those.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-01-04 12:11pm

Are you, in Anakin's body...or are you Anakin Skywalker with a moment of ephiphany?

Because if you are you, with foreknowledge of what will happen, this fantasy becomes dumber by the moment. You have little to no any real grasp of what you have(as a Jedi/the universe around you, etc), and the upcoming battles will not favor you.

But if you are Anakin with a moment, you have to consider how much does this change him. Palpatine is still telling him he can save Padme, he knows that Mace has lost all trust whatsoever, and really he has no other recourse...other then killing Palpatine, which according to his visions, leads to Padme's death.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2006-01-04 01:40pm

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:If I've only just cut off Mace's hand, he's still alive, so, as I cut off his hand, rather than extinguish my lightsaber, I end the downswing on Palpatine's neck. Or perhaps it's best if Mace doesn't survive, since I have strong doubts as to whether he would help me. Yes, he will die. I'll inform the others that Palpatine killed me moments after I entered the room, but he was tired after that, so I was able to kill the Chancellor. I try to lead the Jedi Order into a more liberal era as I also take emergency powers and declare myself Sovereign of the Republic.

If you're going to kill Palpatine instead, why not just, I don't know, not chop off Mace's hand and let him do it instead?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-01-04 01:45pm

Civil War Man wrote:
Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:If I've only just cut off Mace's hand, he's still alive, so, as I cut off his hand, rather than extinguish my lightsaber, I end the downswing on Palpatine's neck. Or perhaps it's best if Mace doesn't survive, since I have strong doubts as to whether he would help me. Yes, he will die. I'll inform the others that Palpatine killed me moments after I entered the room, but he was tired after that, so I was able to kill the Chancellor. I try to lead the Jedi Order into a more liberal era as I also take emergency powers and declare myself Sovereign of the Republic.
If you're going to kill Palpatine instead, why not just, I don't know, not chop off Mace's hand and let him do it instead?

Because of the stupidity of the OP places you AFTER you've commited this act.

Though it doesn't really lay out whether this is Anakin Skywalker and a moment of lucidity...or your poor dumbass schumck self, thrusted into Anakin's body.

It's just so well thought out on many aspects.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-01-04 02:30pm

Why not just cut off Palpatine's hands as he's blasting Mace Windu? That way, he can't use his lightsabre, and he can't hit you with force lightning, and it's doubtful he can Force-push you (IIRC, the Force is psychosomatic): you have him at your mercy, Mace Windu is still in the building, albeit down for a bit with excruciating pain, and you're in charge.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2006-01-04 03:30pm

Surlethe wrote:Why not just cut off Palpatine's hands as he's blasting Mace Windu? That way, he can't use his lightsabre, and he can't hit you with force lightning, and it's doubtful he can Force-push you (IIRC, the Force is psychosomatic): you have him at your mercy, Mace Windu is still in the building, albeit down for a bit with excruciating pain, and you're in charge.

Word might get around that you had a hand fetish. You don't need that.

Also, I read the OP as you replacing Anakin's thinking brain, though you retain his skills and knowledge.

Darth Cronos the Proud · Post by **Darth Cronos the Proud** » 2006-01-04 06:01pm

Hey, remember how it was Anakin's turn to the Dark Side which caused Padme's death? And how you're supposed to know this if you were put in his shoes, since that's the whole goddamn point?

This is exactly my point. If you are in Anakin's shoes, you'd have someone you love who you saw die in a Force dream and would have no idea that it would be your turn to the Dark Side that would cause it. You have a guy and an organization (Mace Windu and the Jedi) who have been suspicious and patronizing to you from the start, and telling you that you need to let this person go, and a guy (Palpaine) who has been nothing but supportive of everything you have done (including your revenge against the Sand People) and who says can help you save the person you love. Based on this and WHITOUT HINDSIGHT, what other choice could you possibly have?

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2006-01-04 06:56pm

Darth Cronos the Proud wrote:
Hey, remember how it was Anakin's turn to the Dark Side which caused Padme's death? And how you're supposed to know this if you were put in his shoes, since that's the whole goddamn point?
This is exactly my point. If you are in Anakin's shoes, you'd have someone you love who you saw die in a Force dream and would have no idea that it would be your turn to the Dark Side that would cause it. You have a guy and an organization (Mace Windu and the Jedi) who have been suspicious and patronizing to you from the start, and telling you that you need to let this person go, and a guy (Palpaine) who has been nothing but supportive of everything you have done (including your revenge against the Sand People) and who says can help you save the person you love. Based on this and WHITOUT HINDSIGHT, what other choice could you possibly have?

The non-retarded choice which doesn't ignore what you already know in favour of being evil for some bizarre reason. You know, about acting on the OP if YOU were placed in his shoes, not some amnesiac moron who can't reason his way out of a paper bag.

Darth Cronos the Proud · Post by **Darth Cronos the Proud** » 2006-01-04 07:35pm

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:The non-retarded choice which doesn't ignore what you already know in favour of being evil for some bizarre reason. You know, about acting on the OP if YOU were placed in his shoes, not some amnesiac moron who can't reason his way out of a paper bag.

Getting a chance to save the one you love isn't a bizarre reason. Plus, if you watch the movie, Anakin states, right before he fights Obi-Wan, that he feels the Jedi ae evil, so according to Anakin it isn't so much about choosing between good and evil, as it's about choosing between family and a defunk, decaying order that, at every turn, has attempted to stifle your feelings for the ones you love. Gee, it's a hard choice! (For those of you who are dense, I'm being sarcastic) As an aside, when Padme refuses to join Anakin, he rightly feels betrayed by the only person he loved besides his mother who's already dead (He did all that he did for her, and she turns her back on him) and I can't blame him for going off the deep end like he did. If Padme hadn't been a mindless democratic dogmatic, she could have saved the Galaxy decades of pain and suffering. Sounds like Padme made a worse decision than Anakin.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-01-04 07:41pm

As an aside, when Padme refuses to join Anakin, he rightly feels betrayed by the only person he loved besides his mother who's already dead (He did all that he did for her, and she turns her back on him) and I can't blame him for going off the deep end like he did. If Padme hadn't been a mindless democratic dogmatic, she could have saved the Galaxy decades of pain and suffering. Sounds like Padme made a worse decision than Anakin.

Wait.
Are you seriously saying that she should have stuck with Anakin despite the fact that he had just murdered an untold number of his own colleagues, including numerous children, and was taking a primary role in undermining a Republic that, while flawed, was a heck of a lot better than a Sith dictatorship?

Darth Cronos the Proud · Post by **Darth Cronos the Proud** » 2006-01-04 09:13pm

Noble Ire wrote:Wait.
Are you seriously saying that she should have stuck with Anakin despite the fact that he had just murdered an untold number of his own colleagues, including numerous children, and was taking a primary role in undermining a Republic that, while flawed, was a heck of a lot better than a Sith dictatorship?

At the point of contention (the part of the movie where Anakin gave Pame the choice of joining him) the Republic was already destroyed (Remember that earlier Padme was present at the special session of the Senate where Palpatine announced the reorganization of the Republic into the Empire). If, as I stated earlier, Padme wasn't a mindless democratic dogmatic, she would have realized that joining Anakin would have been the only hope of overthrowing Palpatine. Without Palpatine, Padme would have been able to start the long process of turning Anakin away from the Dark Side and reestablishing the Republic. And of course you are assuming that Anakin's Sith dictatoship (with Padme at his side) would be the same as the Sith dictatorship under Palpatine. Anakin's personality is totally different from Palpatine's. Palpatine went to the Dark Side for power's sake, while Anakin went to the Dark Side out of good intentions. This would mean a more benevolent dictatorship (relative to Palpatine's) under Anakin and Padme.

As an aside, it is true that Anakin had committed numerous atrocities right before the fight on Mustafar, but for Padme to ignore a chance to bring freedom back to the Galaxy because doing so would mean joining Anakin after he committed these atrocities would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face, totally irrational and downright selfish.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-01-04 09:39pm

So, your saying that the rise of Palpatine's regime was on Padme's shoulders because she was selfish not to freely accept Anakin's entreaties on Mustafar? Are you kidding? Everything Padme had worked for in her life had just been undone, by one of Anakin's best friends no less, and the man she loved had turned seemingly overnight into a monster who slaughters children, hunts down old friends, and talks of placing the galaxy under his heel.

You are right on one respect, a dictatorship under Anakin, especially with Padme's presence, would have likely been better than Palpatine's. However, that is completely irrelevant here. It is made clear that Padme has absolutely no idea what has happened to make Anakin do what he's doing; for all she knows, Anakin has simply gone insane. Why would she even think of trusting him in his offer for Order in the galaxy? (if she was even in a mental state to consider the long term reprocussions of her actions, which she clearly wasn't, and its not like Anakin, or Obi-Wan, gave her that much time to ponder it.)

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-01-04 09:47pm

If Anakin's personality is suddenly overwritten by my own (how I'm interpreting this scenario) I do fuck all to save Padme. Cronos, you're contradicting yourself when you condemn what Padme did while in the same breath lauding Vader's actions. You accuse her of being selfish for following her own ideals- greater Galaxy be damned- and not being some kind of perverse Sith queen (as if Sidious would let her live). Then you turn right around and say Vader was totally justified by staying loyal to his friends and family- greater Galaxy be damned.

In all seriousness, I play my role up until the CIS delegates are dead. Then I jump in my Eta-2 and go back to Coruscant. Like, immediately. No confrontation with Padme, no disastrous battle with Obi-Wan. My chances of a successful coup double by the day after that. Palpatine will be remembered as a brief, transitional Emperor.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2006-01-04 11:03pm

I'd probably just run, and later vomit somewhere else. Palpatine was too close of a friend to Anakin for Anakin to kill him, and Anakin needed Palpatine to save Padme.

Darth Cronos the Proud · Post by **Darth Cronos the Proud** » 2006-01-04 11:19pm

Darth Raptor wrote:Cronos, you're contradicting yourself when you condemn what Padme did while in the same breath lauding Vader's actions. You accuse her of being selfish for following her own ideals- greater Galaxy be damned- and not being some kind of perverse Sith queen (as if Sidious would let her live). Then you turn right around and say Vader was totally justified by staying loyal to his friends and family- greater Galaxy be damned.

No, I'm not contradicting myself. In Anakin's dilemma, you either protect the Galactic Republic and give up on Padme, or you join Palpatine and turn to the Dark Side and try to save Padme while allowing the Republic to fall. There is not way to do both. In Padme's choice, she could either turn down Anakin's offer and loose both the man she loves and the Republic, or join Anakin and both save him (by slowly turning him back) and recreate the Republic after she had turned Anakin back to the light. And Sidious wouldn't have a choice, because if Padme had joined Anakin, they would have went back to Coruscant, killed his wrinkled ass, and taken over the Empire, case closed.

So in fact I am condeming Padme for not holding to her convictions (attempting to ensure that the Republic is reborn by aiding Anakin in overthrowing the Emperor) while I laud Anakin's (and I say Anakin, not Vader, because IMO Anakin does not truly become Vader until he is rejected by Padme and looses the last anchor he had) decision because he was faced with a truly difficult decision but stuck to his personality and convictions of being loyal to people, not abstract ideas like the Republic or the Jedi Order (see Michael Wong's assesment of the battle between Windu and Palpatine in his reactions to Episode III on his website where I found this take on his personality, and with which I agree.)

Darth Raptor wrote:If Anakin's personality is suddenly overwritten by my own (how I'm interpreting this scenario) I do fuck all to save Padme

In order for you to be truly in Anakin's shoes, you must then replace Padme with someone who you love so much that you would do anything to save them from death, otherwise you get into this "I'd just kill Palpatine and be done with it" crap that's so popular with all 20/20 hindsight movie critics, not to mention that you loose the Greek Tragedyesc nature that is so important in looking at the transformation of Anakin into Vader.

And before anyone pulls the "Obi-Wan went to Mustafar to kill Anakin" card, let me say that it is entirely possible, even probable, that when Obi-Wan saw that Padme was with Anakin, he would have helped them take out the Emperor and then would have hanged in the background and watch over Anakin and Padme to make sure that she was able to bring him back (remember that it was only after Vader had Force-Choked Padme that Obi-Wan was truly resigned to having to kill Vader and recognize that Anakin was gone, before that he tried to reason with Anakin.)

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2006-01-04 11:32pm

Darth Cronos the Proud wrote:And before anyone pulls the "Obi-Wan went to Mustafar to kill Anakin" card, let me say that it is entirely possible, even probable, that when Obi-Wan saw that Padme was with Anakin, he would have helped them take out the Emperor and then would have hanged in the background and watch over Anakin and Padme to make sure that she was able to bring him back (remember that it was only after Vader had Force-Choked Padme that Obi-Wan was truly resigned to having to kill Vader and recognize that Anakin was gone, before that he tried to reason with Anakin.)

This all presumes that Obi-Wan is aware of the result of the fight between Yoda and Sidious, which he didn't. Their mission was to stop the Sith. I sincerely doubt that even if Padme had followed along, it would have been probable that Obi-Wan would have too. He believed that the boy he trained is now gone and consumed by Darth Vader. To Obi-Wan, Anakin is dead.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-01-04 11:40pm

Woot! I just became DARTH VADER!

That's what I'd be thinking.

Let Palpatine off Mace. Mace would get in the way of my plans.

Continue on with the 'plotline' as I know it will go, with changes
1- Go trash the security recordings, or at least steal them
2- Tell the Stormtroopers "I have forseen Bail Organa showing up. He is NOT to be allowed to leave the temple accept under my escort"
3- "Jedi have survived Order 66. They will be coming to the temple. I want them killed"
4- Not tell Padme where I'm going. In fact, I'm not going to go see her quite yet. Just let her know I'm okay, and not to trust anyone, she's to go into heading on Naboo ASAP. Get on her transport and go, now.

Once I toast the Jedi in the temple, I go to Mustafar and kill the Seperatists, then go back immediately. Together, the Emperor and I kill Obiwan and Yoda, I've got the girl, then I bid my time, and take over the Galaxy.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-01-04 11:40pm

So in fact I am condeming Padme for not holding to her convictions (attempting to ensure that the Republic is reborn by aiding Anakin in overthrowing the Emperor) while I laud Anakin's (and I say Anakin, not Vader, because IMO Anakin does not truly become Vader until he is rejected by Padme and looses the last anchor he had) decision because he was faced with a truly difficult decision but stuck to his personality and convictions of being loyal to people, not abstract ideas like the Republic or the Jedi Order (see Michael Wong's assesment of the battle between Windu and Palpatine in his reactions to Episode III on his website where I found this take on his personality, and with which I agree.)

Again, I would maintain that expecting Padme to think in such a farsighted manner considering the circumstances she was thrust into is foolish in the extreme. In addition, I would say that Anakin became Vader when he submitted to Palpatine and lead the 501st into the temple. IN escense, Padme was dealing with a completely different person on Mustafar.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2006-01-05 01:44am

My plan:

1 - Chop Palpatine while he's laying on the floor, having just given Mace the "UNLIMITED POWAR!!1!" treatment.

2 - Tell the other Jedi that, sorry, I arrived just a little too late to save Mace. He was a jerk anyway.

3 - Also tell them to go arrest the Separatists on Mustafar. If they ask how I know this, make up some shit about the Force, or tell them Palpatine mentioned it as he begged for his life.

4 - Stick around long enough to make sure the Senate elects a new and better Chancellor.

5 - Tell the other Jedi to go fuck themselves, I quit.

6 - Write a book (or whatever) about the whole debacle, and get rich.

7 - Pork my wife and raise my kids, while using my Jedi powers to fight crime or some shit if I get too bored.