nBSG - New Episode

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2006-01-07 10:46am

Nephtys wrote:I was surprised by that too. I assume they had some spares from Raptors, and slapped one in. Since I didn't see any volume on the blackbird being taken up by something like an internal cannon...

Which somewhat begs the question on whether or not the Blackbird is armed. I assume it is from two points. First, it was considered a "fighter" all along. Tyrol wasn't designing it with the idea of having stealth abilities, it just turned out that way when they ran out of metal. Secondly, didn't they say in this ep that the op they're planning requires the Blackbird herself to take out the FTL engines of the Ressurection ship. This also implies weapons of some sort, though maybe they're planning just to strap on some missiles somewhere. (not sure where, though)

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2006-01-07 10:47am

I was thinking that they'd bolt some missiles on and shoot up the FTL drives. I didn't see anyplace that they could've mounted guns.

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2006-01-07 10:48am

CaptJodan wrote:Which somewhat begs the question on whether or not the Blackbird is armed. I assume it is from two points. First, it was considered a "fighter" all along. Tyrol wasn't designing it with the idea of having stealth abilities, it just turned out that way when they ran out of metal. Secondly, didn't they say in this ep that the op they're planning requires the Blackbird herself to take out the FTL engines of the Ressurection ship. This also implies weapons of some sort, though maybe they're planning just to strap on some missiles somewhere. (not sure where, though)

But straped on missiles would spoil the stealth profile, my bet is that it is armed with the same guns as all the other fighters.

Centurian99 · Post by **Centurian99** » 2006-01-07 12:56pm

Faram wrote:
CaptJodan wrote:Which somewhat begs the question on whether or not the Blackbird is armed. I assume it is from two points. First, it was considered a "fighter" all along. Tyrol wasn't designing it with the idea of having stealth abilities, it just turned out that way when they ran out of metal. Secondly, didn't they say in this ep that the op they're planning requires the Blackbird herself to take out the FTL engines of the Ressurection ship. This also implies weapons of some sort, though maybe they're planning just to strap on some missiles somewhere. (not sure where, though)
But straped on missiles would spoil the stealth profile, my bet is that it is armed with the same guns as all the other fighters.

It could have internal missile bays. We simply don't know anything about its weapons capabilities at this point, although I think we can assume that its got them.

The jump drive was a surprise.

Quadlok · Post by **Quadlok** » 2006-01-07 01:10pm

That ending sceen with Cain and Adama both plotting the other's death was great. Cain has the most transparent assassination plot ever couched in all sorts of euphimisms and code words, while Adama basically just says 'play the happy crew member, than kill the bitch.'

el blanco · Post by **el blanco** » 2006-01-07 01:11pm

It could be that they modify it for the mission.

Starbuck obviously wasn't going to be in a firefight if the recon mission was successful, so they took out the weapons package and fitted it for a FTL drive.

Since the blackbird will be traveling with the fleet this time, it doesn't need the drive, but will need a weapons package.

And has it occured to anyone to try and capture the Ressurection ship? You might get a look at all the Cylon models and all kinds of other valuable intel.

UCBooties · Post by **UCBooties** » 2006-01-07 01:16pm

I was also a bit confused by the mention of the Blackbird being armed. Does anyone have the episode "Flight of the Pheonix" yet? If so, is there any mention of weaponry?

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2006-01-07 01:26pm

The small stuff in the front might be some sort of gun, but I doubt it.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-01-07 01:48pm

Faram wrote:The small stuff in the front might be some sort of gun, but I doubt it.

Wouldn't that be the camera used to photograph the resurrection ship?

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2006-01-07 01:52pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Wouldn't that be the camera used to photograph the resurrection ship?

The camera was under the fighter.

Gaidin · Post by **Gaidin** » 2006-01-07 01:52pm

that picture is from Flight of the Phoenix isnt it?

And I thought the camera looked like it was under the ship...but I could be wrong...

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-01-07 02:14pm

SHOOT HER IN THE HEAD[/url]

is already a catchphrase on SA.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2006-01-07 02:22pm

Skylon wrote:
Arrow wrote:
RogueIce wrote:Random question: what's the BSG number for Pegasus?
I believe BSP is 62, while BSG is 75. Judging from that, BSP replaced an older Battlestar or other capital ship.
The BSG number refers to Battlestar Group (similar to carrier groups I suppose) according to Ron Moore's blog, not a registry number. You can also spot it on some charts in "Water".

Yeah, I know. Which is why I said Pegasus had replaced an older ship - if it had a number larger than Galactic's, then it would have been part of a newer group.

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2006-01-07 02:37pm

Faram wrote:
CaptJodan wrote:Which somewhat begs the question on whether or not the Blackbird is armed. I assume it is from two points. First, it was considered a "fighter" all along. Tyrol wasn't designing it with the idea of having stealth abilities, it just turned out that way when they ran out of metal. Secondly, didn't they say in this ep that the op they're planning requires the Blackbird herself to take out the FTL engines of the Ressurection ship. This also implies weapons of some sort, though maybe they're planning just to strap on some missiles somewhere. (not sure where, though)
But straped on missiles would spoil the stealth profile, my bet is that it is armed with the same guns as all the other fighters.

They do say in the planning session that putting nukes on the blackbird would kill the stealth profile, so they're going with conventional rounds. My money would be on those smaller rockets from hand of god, you could probably shoehorn them in between the body and the engine pods.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-01-07 02:48pm

The Dark wrote:
Srynerson wrote:
The Dark wrote:There is a rank above Admiral, then? I wasn't sure about that.
At least in real life navies the rank of Grand or Fleet Admiral is superior: Link trimmed
I decided to look it up, and Moore's blog places Admiral as the highest rank, so Cain'd still have seniority over Adama.

You know, there could always be multiple ranks of Admiral, just like in real life.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-01-07 03:54pm

I've been thinking about Admiral Cain and her personality, who she was.

Cain is and always has been a pyschopath. Someone who is only interested in themselves. The war didn't make her Angry and want to hurt and kill people. She was always like that. The thing is, before the war, she was never in a position of such absolute power.

Cain was an Admiral, apparently a mid ranked Admiral at that. Not a desk jocky, but not a fleet commander, just a task force leader. She's always had superiors to which she had to pay heed to and she never let her personality slip. But when she had absolute authority over soldiers who were accustomed to following her every command, her personality sprung forth. People did exactly as she bid, her desires were made reality. Anyone in her way was dealt with, often killed.

An effective soldier, but in a situation where she has no accountability and absolute authority, a deadly enemy.

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2006-01-07 05:13pm

Alyeska wrote:I've been thinking about Admiral Cain and her personality, who she was.

Cain is and always has been a pyschopath. Someone who is only interested in themselves. The war didn't make her Angry and want to hurt and kill people. She was always like that. The thing is, before the war, she was never in a position of such absolute power.

Cain was an Admiral, apparently a mid ranked Admiral at that. Not a desk jocky, but not a fleet commander, just a task force leader. She's always had superiors to which she had to pay heed to and she never let her personality slip. But when she had absolute authority over soldiers who were accustomed to following her every command, her personality sprung forth. People did exactly as she bid, her desires were made reality. Anyone in her way was dealt with, often killed.

An effective soldier, but in a situation where she has no accountability and absolute authority, a deadly enemy.

That bit with Kara was actually pretty telling on her personality. I tend to think that her and Kara have a lot in common. Cain, as has been discussed back and forth previously, is pretty young for such a high rank. She was probably an exceptional officer, but nothing if not ambitious. Whatever skills she had in leadership previously was primarily used to get her to a higher rank, not necessarily for the good of the Colonial fleet. Kara doesn't have that drive. (actually, I haven't quite figured out what Kara's drive really is. We know she fights because she doesn't know how to do anything else. Hopefully there's something deeper than just that.)

I'm actually curious if Kara can do it. If what is suspected is true, IE that Six caps Cain, then what was Starbuck doing? I kind of think that she might see something in Cain that she likes too, not to mention Cain's ability to help manipulate Starbuck to her side by saying they'd go back and not only help those in the resistence, but take back their homes. That's very appealing to her, but will it even phase her? Not sure we had enough time to see if it would.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-01-07 05:18pm

The primary difference between Cain and Kara (other then the issue of rank) is the fact that Kara has a sense of morality that she lets guide her. Because of this she isn't so ambitious that she would step on the careers of others to get what she wants. Cain's lack of a moral compace and completely selfish nature means she will do anything she can get away with. When monitored by others, she merely steps on those she cans and torpedoes the careers of others through legit means. When she assumed absolute power, her true nature was revealed. Her crew learned to live with it because she kept them alive and because they didn't have much choice.

tumbletom · Post by **tumbletom** » 2006-01-07 06:14pm

This is kind of off topic but it has been bothering me. In Flight of the Phoenix when they are talking about not having metal and then Helo ( I think) suggests carbon fiber, where exactly did they get it? Did they ever explain how they got the stuff? Or did they take it out of the carpet or something?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2006-01-07 06:14pm

Alyeska wrote:When monitored by others, she merely steps on those she cans and torpedoes the careers of others through legit means.

Huh? Was that from "Pegasus?"

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2006-01-07 06:15pm

tumbletom wrote:This is kind of off topic but it has been bothering me. In Flight of the Phoenix when they are talking about not having metal and then Helo ( I think) suggests carbon fiber, where exactly did they get it? Did they ever explain how they got the stuff? Or did they take it out of the carpet or something?

I think they mentioned a civilian ship having a store of it.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2006-01-07 06:16pm

Thoughts about the series and episode:

In the past seasons, we've seen both Rosalind and Adama do dodgy things - putting people out the airlock, for instance. And it always looked/felt horrible, like they were skirting the edge of a cliff.

Caine has fallen over the edge.

What is the purpose of the military? To exist for itself, or to protect the civilians of a civilization? If you ask Adama, the answer is likely "to serve and protect", the military is the necessary guard for the civilians. If you ask Caine, the answer may be "to exist for itself". She puts the military above the civilians, even if it means wiping out a significant percentage of the remaining human race.

And that's just stupid - if she executes the "useless", including children, where do the next generation of soldiers come from? Her "solution" is a dead end, a concession to extinction with the only mark left being a hollow revenge.

Adama, however, is trying to preserve his civilian fleet - because that is the heart and soul of his culture. He's not soft, he can make the hard decisions, such as early in the series when he abandons ships without FTL in order to save 40,000+ people, but he makes those decisions only when absolutely necessary. You get the impression that Caine dismantled her civilian fleet because she could, not because of an immediate pressing need. She stripped ALL the ships, of EVERYTHING, because she might need those items in the future. Adama abandoned non-FTL ships because there was no time to fit them out, or move their passengers. Caine manufactured non-FTL ships out of FTL ships, and created a crisis and wave of death that didn't have to be.

And, in that sense, hasn't Caine committed treason herself? She cranks down harder and harder on law and order, she has to justify her actions, over and over again, to others if not herself or she risks mutiny. She KNOWS some what has occured on her watch is considered criminal, her justification being "we're at war". Well, no shit, bitch. And that's why she views Adama and Rosalind with such hostility - they show that she didn't have to kill her civilian fleet, that there were alternatives, that things could have been otherwise. There can be no mercy in her because mercy means she might have made mistakes, might have committed crimes herself.

Caine thrives on hate, on battle. Adama is a warrior, but he's the sort who, while an excellent fighter, prefers peace. That's why he's able to apologize to a Cylon for mistreatment at the hands of his fellow humans - Cylons are not the enemy because of irrational hatred but because they are on opposite sides in battle. Adama would be willing to negotiate a settlement/cease fire/peace of some sort with the Cylons, if he had some guarantee of fair-dealing on both sides. Caine can't - for her this is a battle to the extinction of one group or another.

And that's why Adama's "don't count on it" statement has just enough truth to make it interesting. Caine is ruled by her emotions, as cold as they are. Her blind hatred of her enemies, any enemies, can lead her into mistakes. She practices self-deception, and that's dangerous in any endeavor but all the more so in war. Adama's not stupid - he knows the Galactica isn't as technically advanced as the Pegasus, or as well supplied, but those aren't the only factors in battle. Adama's fighting, although passionate, is at heart ruled by logic

And we see that in the assasination planning. Caine, the ultimate bitch-queen in a series that has had it's share of bitch-queens (think of Six snapping the infant's neck in the first episode), is wrapping her plans in euphenism. "Terminate his command" indeed! She knows she's in the wrong, but still trying to wiggle and justify. Adama, on the other hand, isn't fooling anyone. He knows what he's asking Kara to do - murder someone in cold blood. He doesn't pull his punches, he comes right out and says "shoot her in the head". And he's asking Kara to do it. Not only is she arguably the bravest of his fighters, she's an enormous asset to the Galactica with her ability to get shit done - and he loves her as a daughter, she is second only to Apollo in his affections. And he knows goddamned well that the most likely outcome, succesful or not, is that she is going to die in a hail of gunfire after she shoots Caine. He is sending some he loves as a family member on a suicide mission, because he knows that she is the most likely person to pull it off, and because it's for the good of remaining humanity. By sending her, he is essentially saying he views Caine as a greater threat to human survival than the Cylons. And she is, because Caine would divide and slaughter the survivors until only her loyalists were left, then lead them into a final slaughter at the hands of the Cylons.

Caine says she's trying to win... but Adama knows the only "win" here is the survival of the human race, even if they have to abandon Caprica, etc. forever. And while Adama doesn't want to make the hard decisions, he is clearly putting the survival of the race ahead of his own loved ones. Now THAT is a leader, and a noble human being!

Grasscutter · Post by **Grasscutter** » 2006-01-07 06:18pm

Thag wrote:
Faram wrote:
CaptJodan wrote:Which somewhat begs the question on whether or not the Blackbird is armed. I assume it is from two points. First, it was considered a "fighter" all along. Tyrol wasn't designing it with the idea of having stealth abilities, it just turned out that way when they ran out of metal. Secondly, didn't they say in this ep that the op they're planning requires the Blackbird herself to take out the FTL engines of the Ressurection ship. This also implies weapons of some sort, though maybe they're planning just to strap on some missiles somewhere. (not sure where, though)
But straped on missiles would spoil the stealth profile, my bet is that it is armed with the same guns as all the other fighters.
They do say in the planning session that putting nukes on the blackbird would kill the stealth profile, so they're going with conventional rounds. My money would be on those smaller rockets from hand of god, you could probably shoehorn them in between the body and the engine pods.

I think it's not a matter of attached nukes breaking the stealth profile, but rather that the Cylons can scan for and detect nuclear warheads. The Colonials have demonstrated the ability in "33" when they detected a nuclear device on the Olympic Carrier.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2006-01-07 06:46pm

Broomstick wrote:Adama, however, is trying to preserve his civilian fleet - because that is the heart and soul of his culture. He's not soft, he can make the hard decisions, such as early in the series when he abandons ships without FTL in order to save 40,000+ people, but he makes those decisions only when absolutely necessary.

Nitpick: it was Rosalin who ordered the fleet to abandon the non-FTL ships, not Adama.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2006-01-07 06:54pm

RogueIce wrote:Random question: what's the BSG number for Pegasus?

Actual ship numbers are unknown (although Pegasus is a Mercury-class, the only designation we've gotten for a warship). The only known Battlestar Group numbers are 62 for Pegasus and 75 for Galactica, although Galactica may have been assigned to a low-priority group, as she was in the process of being decommissioned. Galactica was the last of the original twelve Battlestars, and the only other ones we know of are the Mercury-class.