Borg Vs Yuuzhan Vong

ngc7293 · Post by **ngc7293** » 2006-01-07 02:06am

It makes no sense for the Borg to win. If it has been established that SW spanks the Borg, then anything else from the SW universe would spank anything from the ST universe. I don't even have to read SW books to know the ultimate conclusion.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2006-01-07 04:17pm

I would like the Borg to win this, but really, the firepower gap is too large as has been elaborated upon many, many times in this forum. The gap is kind of silly it is so huge, actually.

Roughly speaking the firepower difference is no nicer than 10,000 times in favor of the Empire/Vong. Trek gets double digit MT weaponry (or lower, but I'm being nice), the Borg get the high end of this but it is still no better than double digits. Conversely the Empire and the Vong get triple digit GT weaponry (or higher, but I'm being nice).

For illustration imagine (or sketch) a square 100 mm to a side and compare its area to a smaller square 1 mm to a side. That is the difference in firepower.

Evil Bob · Post by **Evil Bob** » 2006-01-08 07:50pm

The vong would overrun the borg and wipe them out before the borg would know what hit them. I also suspect that the vong would respond to the borg just like they tend to respond to machines and robots.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-01-08 07:52pm

Evil Bob wrote:The vong would overrun the borg and wipe them out before the borg would know what hit them. I also suspect that the vong would respond to the borg just like they tend to respond to machines and robots.

yes but worse because these are biengs that have put machines into themselves!

A-Wing_Slash · Post by **A-Wing_Slash** » 2006-01-08 10:37pm

The Silence and I wrote:I would like the Borg to win this, but really, the firepower gap is too large as has been elaborated upon many, many times in this forum. The gap is kind of silly it is so huge, actually.

Roughly speaking the firepower difference is no nicer than 10,000 times in favor of the Empire/Vong. Trek gets double digit MT weaponry (or lower, but I'm being nice), the Borg get the high end of this but it is still no better than double digits. Conversely the Empire and the Vong get triple digit GT weaponry (or higher, but I'm being nice).

For illustration imagine (or sketch) a square 100 mm to a side and compare its area to a smaller square 1 mm to a side. That is the difference in firepower.

I am pretty sure that the Vong had very low end firepower for SW. I don't know if the writers kept this consistant throughout the NJO, but in Vector Prime, Kyp Durrons Dozen or so whatevers were clobbering a bunch of Vong fighters, and Vong weapons were almost litterally bouncing off their shields, until the coralskippers started using their Dovin Basals to take down their shields. Now I may be wrong on this, but if I recall correctly, Borg ships may not have shields. Of course the drone have them, so I assume the cubes have at the very least a scaled up version of that, but on numerous occaisons the feds beam into Borg ships, so they maybe sufficiently that Dovin Basals won't work.

Also, I thought that Vong armor was fairly weak, at least compared to SW weaponry. If the Borg could get around Dovin Basals, perhaps by transporting torpedoes either up against the hull or at the closest distance they can transport to before the singularities interfere, they may be able to do a fair bit of damage.

Third, the Vong used espionage, propoganda, hostages, and encouraged people like Viqi Shesh and the Peace Brigade to join their side in their SW invasion. I don't think any of these tactics would work against a hive mind like the Borg.

Fourth, facing an opponent like the Borg, the Vong's religious craziness will completelysend them off the deep end. While this will make them fight that much harder, it will get to their commander's heads and make them make bad decisions. I don't know if the Borg are capable of working an ambush, but if they somehow assimilate some tactics, or perhaps cut a deal with the Federation like they did to fight 8472, they could possibly manipulate or outmanuever the Vond leadership.

That being said, the Vongs main weaponry, volcano cannons and Grutchin (sp) are not energy weapons: they are physical objects. This would play hell with the Borgs regeneration and adaptation.

Also, even if everything cuts in the Borgs favor, if the firepower gap is on the order of 10,000 times like The Silence and I said previously, the Borg are getting their asses handed to them no matter what.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2006-01-09 06:43am

The Vong may be on the low end of the SW firepower spectrum, but even the low end is ridiculously beyond the high end of the ST firepower spectrum. The technology and capabilities gap is simply too damn high for any non-Godlike ST power to stand up to a SW power. Yes, the Vong's tech isn't as good as the comparable NR stuff, but that's like saying that a Sherman tank isn't as good as an Abrahms, and thus it will have trouble defeating a bunch of guys with sticks.

As to who I'd rather see win: neither. They both suck tremendous amounts of ass and both deserve to be obliterated.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-01-09 11:43am

Vicious wrote:The Vong may be on the low end of the SW firepower spectrum, but even the low end is ridiculously beyond the high end of the ST firepower spectrum. The technology and capabilities gap is simply too damn high for any non-Godlike ST power to stand up to a SW power. Yes, the Vong's tech isn't as good as the comparable NR stuff, but that's like saying that a Sherman tank isn't as good as an Abrahms, and thus it will have trouble defeating a bunch of guys with sticks.

As to who I'd rather see win: neither. They both suck tremendous amounts of ass and both deserve to be obliterated.

There is an important difference. The Borg use to be cool, the Vong never were.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2006-01-09 11:59am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:There is an important difference. The Borg use to be cool, the Vong never were.

True, but their irrepressable legacy of suckitude has all but devoured what measure of cool they once possessed.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2006-01-09 12:29pm

Just a question, how do the Grutchin get through the shields of the fighters they attack ?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-01-09 01:28pm

white_rabbit wrote:Just a question, how do the Grutchin get through the shields of the fighters they attack ?

What the hell are you talking about?
Yuuzhan Vong fighters have creatures on their ships (Dovin Bassals) that can project small black holes giving them excellent durability (Although when countered they get creamed by multiple ships working together), and the Dovin's can also "strip" enemy ships/fighters of their shields

Darth Cronos the Proud · Post by **Darth Cronos the Proud** » 2006-01-09 02:25pm

DEATH wrote:What the hell are you talking about?
Yuuzhan Vong fighters have creatures on their ships (Dovin Bassals) that can project small black holes giving them excellent durability (Although when countered they get creamed by multiple ships working together), and the Dovin's can also "strip" enemy ships/fighters of their shields

That's only until the NR fighters learned that expanding their internal compensators past their shields negates the dovin Bassal's ability to strip them of their shields.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2006-01-09 02:35pm

Darth Cronos the Proud wrote:
DEATH wrote:What the hell are you talking about?
Yuuzhan Vong fighters have creatures on their ships (Dovin Bassals) that can project small black holes giving them excellent durability (Although when countered they get creamed by multiple ships working together), and the Dovin's can also "strip" enemy ships/fighters of their shields
That's only until the NR fighters learned that expanding their internal compensators past their shields negates the dovin Bassal's ability to strip them of their shields.

Which book was this in? Because I do not remember that at all and I've read all of the NJO.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2006-01-09 02:37pm

Vicious wrote:
Darth Cronos the Proud wrote:
DEATH wrote:What the hell are you talking about?
Yuuzhan Vong fighters have creatures on their ships (Dovin Bassals) that can project small black holes giving them excellent durability (Although when countered they get creamed by multiple ships working together), and the Dovin's can also "strip" enemy ships/fighters of their shields
That's only until the NR fighters learned that expanding their internal compensators past their shields negates the dovin Bassal's ability to strip them of their shields.
Which book was this in? Because I do not remember that at all and I've read all of the NJO.

I think they figured this out by the first duology, definetly by post BP.

I like the Vong...

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2006-01-09 02:43pm

DEATH wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:Just a question, how do the Grutchin get through the shields of the fighters they attack ?
What the hell are you talking about?
Yuuzhan Vong fighters have creatures on their ships (Dovin Bassals) that can project small black holes giving them excellent durability (Although when countered they get creamed by multiple ships working together), and the Dovin's can also "strip" enemy ships/fighters of their shields

Well, someone beat me to it, but as they said, the inertial compensator trick fucked the basal trick up, and I seemed to recall them attacking with grutchins without having to strip shields.

So fuck off and be bitchy to someone else.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2006-01-09 02:49pm

white_rabbit wrote:
DEATH wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:Just a question, how do the Grutchin get through the shields of the fighters they attack ?
What the hell are you talking about?
Yuuzhan Vong fighters have creatures on their ships (Dovin Bassals) that can project small black holes giving them excellent durability (Although when countered they get creamed by multiple ships working together), and the Dovin's can also "strip" enemy ships/fighters of their shields
Well, someone beat me to it, but as they said, the inertial compensator trick fucked the basal trick up, and I seemed to recall them attacking with grutchins without having to strip shields.

So fuck off and be bitchy to someone else.

The grutchins apprently passed through the shields, or ate through them the same way the plasma missles do.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-01-09 02:50pm

white_rabbit wrote: So fuck off and be bitchy to someone else.

Sorry, I Didn't remmemeber that the Gritchin things were what stripped the shields, and didn't understand what a Gritchin was (That's what I meant by "What are you talking about"- what is a gritchin)
Sorry for misunderstanding you due to forgetting the name, Thanks for reminding me.
Dovin bassals were the co-ordinater organs then, right? [That served the same purpose as Palpatine's or Joorus C'Boath's Force melds with the ships crews].

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2006-01-09 02:52pm

DEATH wrote:
white_rabbit wrote: So fuck off and be bitchy to someone else.
Sorry, I Didn't remmemeber that the Gritchin things were what stripped the shields, and didn't understand what a Gritchin was (That's what I meant by "What are you talking about"- what is a gritchin)
Sorry for misunderstanding you due to forgetting the name, Thanks for reminding me.
Dovin bassals were the co-ordinater organs then, right? [That served the same purpose as Palpatine's or Joorus C'Boath's Force melds with the ships crews].

*shoots* If you have no idea what you're talkin about, don't post.

The cordinators were Yammosks. Dovin Bassels were the Grav Wells. Grutchins are little annoying beasts.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2006-01-09 02:54pm

DEATH wrote:
white_rabbit wrote: So fuck off and be bitchy to someone else.
Sorry, I Didn't remmemeber that the Gritchin things were what stripped the shields, and didn't understand what a Gritchin was (That's what I meant by "What are you talking about"- what is a gritchin)
Sorry for misunderstanding you due to forgetting the name, Thanks for reminding me.
Dovin bassals were the co-ordinater organs then, right? [That served the same purpose as Palpatine's or Joorus C'Boath's Force melds with the ships crews].

Is english your first language ?

Yammosks were the battle-co-ordinators.
Dovin basals were the black hole beasties
Grutchins were the bug monsters that ate into ships.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-01-09 03:00pm

DEATH wrote:What the hell are you talking about?
Yuuzhan Vong fighters have creatures on their ships (Dovin Bassals) that can project small black holes giving them excellent durability (Although when countered they get creamed by multiple ships working together), and the Dovin's can also "strip" enemy ships/fighters of their shields

You're ESL, so I figure you might not have a complete grasp of the different connotations expressions have in English. For example, "What are you talking about?" generally means "You don't know shit", so that's why he took it badly.

This 30-second English lesson brought to you by your neighborhood Big Badass Starship.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-01-09 03:20pm

For example, "What are you talking about?" generally means "You don't know shit", so that's why he took it badly.

Ah sorry, I meant it as what are you discussing or mentioning, so sorry for not knowing that it's become salng these days.

This 30-second English lesson brought to you by your neighborhood Big Badass Starship.

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).

Is english your first language ?

Yammosks were the battle-co-ordinators.
Dovin basals were the black hole beasties
Grutchins were the bug monsters that ate into ships.

Yes, and thanks for clearing up the different beasties for me, I have'nt read the series in over a year.
Sorry if it appeared that I was insulting you, I meant it as a question on what a Gretchin is/was.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2006-01-09 03:21pm

Ace Pace wrote:
Vicious wrote:Which book was this in? Because I do not remember that at all and I've read all of the NJO.
I think they figured this out by the first duology, definetly by post BP.

I like the Vong...

Oh. Well, chalk it up to my memory being fuck-all at remembering shit like this.

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