Richard Dawkins - The Root of All Evil?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-01-05 05:31pm

Magnetic wrote:Hallucination. . . . . .delusion. . . . . . It would seem so.

As far as what I said about their faith in God as opposed to science, they're talking about things like the age of the planet, the Noah flood, as being still true though science sees those events in a radically different light, show evidence and proof as to their side, . . . . . . they will still believe what is said in the Bible as true, and that God DID make it happen supernaturally.

Personally, I like to try and get them to talk about the flaws of other religions such as Islam, Scientology, Hinduism, etc. Once they've done that for a while I like to take quotes that they're using, substitute "Bible" for "Qu'ran" etc, and show how they're a bunch of flaming hypocrites.

Unfortunately, this is a useless tactic against true fundies because they don't even make a pretense of listening to reason. It does often show moderate viewers what's wrong with the fundie's behaviour, though, and by using his hypocrisy relative to other religions as the attack vector, you sidestep the average moderate Christian's "ewwww, bad man!" reaction to atheism.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2006-01-05 06:46pm

OmegaGuy wrote:Actually they were described as not evil, just alien and they didn't care about humans at all one way or another.

They sure have a strange way of showing it, seeing as they're supposed to destroy us all at some point. That isn't indifference.

OmegaGuy · Post by **OmegaGuy** » 2006-01-05 06:59pm

They would destroy us all the same way we destroy billions of bacteria everyday without even knowing it. It's not like we care about the bacteria and are trying to kill them.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-09 02:55pm

Just bumping this up to remind Brits that episode 1 of Dawkins 'The Root of All Evil' will be on Channel Four at 8pm tonight (ie in about 5 minutes time) just saw the trailer, looks like it's gonna be great.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-01-09 03:42pm

I'm loving this so far. Shame I forgot to start recording it though

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-01-09 03:57pm

Just seen it now. One word: fantastic.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2006-01-09 04:06pm

Thought it was ok, the opening section perhaps a bit too lifestyle-ish, too many dramatic shots and style statements, but after that first 15 minutes, and when they actually got round to the interviews, it got very creepy and very unsettling. Especially the interview with the muslim chap, you never really think about what the other religious extreme view of our way of life is, and to see it presented so absolutely as fact was probably the most powerful thing in the show as to why I'm very happy being an athiest.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2006-01-09 05:04pm

I thought it was fucking brilliant, couldn't disagree with him on a single point. It was great when that retard evangelical lied to his face about evolution. What a load of dicks the fundamentalists are, it was about goddamned time someone got a rational "concede no ground" stance out there in the media.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-01-09 05:11pm

Rye wrote:I thought it was fucking brilliant, couldn't disagree with him on a single point. It was great when that retard evangelical lied to his face about evolution. What a load of dicks the fundamentalists are, it was about goddamned time someone got a rational "concede no ground" stance out there in the media.

Notice he brought about the golden mean fallacy, appeal to emotion, appeal to authority and appeal to ignorance in practically one breath. Then, after his ironic holier-than-thou speech on arrogance, he forces the crew off the premises. The American cum born again Islamofascist was just as disturbing, since Dawkins asked "You want non-Muslims off your land?" and the guy responds "Yes" and to which Dawkins continues "Would you want Islam to takeover the Earth?" and this guy happily states "Yes". So basically, he wants us to be in our separate corners, only his corner happens to be this third rock from the sun, so we are meant to go... where?

I guess this is where you derive the rationale for genocide.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-01-09 05:16pm

I laughed out loud when he likened the American fundie to Hitler, and he didn't even notice.

Overall, I was impressed, but it was very unbalanced, and focused almost entirely on fundementalism, as opposed to the more moderate aspects of religion. Despite this, it should give people a kick up the arse, and maybe make them do a little thinking for themselves.

It also managed to reaffirm my belief that I really don't want to move to America in the foreseeable future.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-01-09 05:18pm

Pezzoni wrote:I laughed out loud when he likened the American fundie to Hitler, and he didn't even notice.

Overall, I was impressed, but it was very unbalanced, and focused almost entirely on fundementalism, as opposed to the more moderate aspects of religion. Despite this, it should give people a kick up the arse, and maybe make them do a little thinking for themselves.

It also managed to reaffirm my belief that I really don't want to move to America in the foreseeable future.

I liked the comment about the freethinkers society hoping to move to Canada. I expect the second programme to go into standard Christianity and the variations elsewhere, since it will delve into Biblical literature (God being the most vindictive son of a bitch in fiction) and how the meme of religion gets passed on.

Pezzoni · Post by **Pezzoni** » 2006-01-09 05:28pm

I've read various of his essays on the meme theory, but it will be interesting to see how it is presented - In this part, he seemed to be on the attack very much all of the way through, which is certainly easy against fundementalists, but maybe not so possible with more moderate forms of religion, until of course, he gets to the indoctrination of children angle, where things could swing either way.

As much fun as it is to mock / present in the worst light possible, the fundies, the program will not meet its full potential impact wise unless it targets the more moderate believers: The atheists already agree with him in majority, the moderate theists agree with him, but since his comments don't really seem relevant to them ("my women dress themselves!"

), are not going to take much notice, and the fundementalists just hate him. Whilst it is entertaining for many people at current, it's main effect is probably limited to the agnostics... Hopefully the next episode can widen that target audience.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2006-01-09 07:28pm

Listening to you talk, it sounds like a fantastic program. Any idea when or where an American can view it?

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-09 08:46pm

Discombobulated wrote:Listening to you talk, it sounds like a fantastic program. Any idea when or where an American can view it?

Rather like with the similarly UnAmerican 'Power of Nightmares' I suspect the answer might well be never, unless you indulge in a bit of downloading.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-09 08:49pm

Pezzoni wrote:I laughed out loud when he likened the American fundie to Hitler, and he didn't even notice.

Overall, I was impressed, but it was very unbalanced, and focused almost entirely on fundementalism, as opposed to the more moderate aspects of religion. Despite this, it should give people a kick up the arse, and maybe make them do a little thinking for themselves.

It also managed to reaffirm my belief that I really don't want to move to America in the foreseeable future.

He didn't focus entirely on fundementalism at all he spent quite a lot of time on more moderate religion, the stuff at Lourdes for example, and argued consistently that fanaticism is the logical and natural result of resorting to faith rather than reason.

Metatwaddle · Post by **Metatwaddle** » 2006-01-10 12:14am

Plekhanov wrote:
Discombobulated wrote:Listening to you talk, it sounds like a fantastic program. Any idea when or where an American can view it?
Rather like with the similarly UnAmerican 'Power of Nightmares' I suspect the answer might well be never, unless you indulge in a bit of downloading.

Sigh. Yeah, I figured that. I guess I'll keep my eyes peeled for [completely legal] downloads.

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2006-01-10 12:47am

Darth Wong wrote:
Magnetic wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:Ask yourself this:

What word defines believing something to be absolutely true when there is no evidence for it being so?
In christian circles. . . . . . . faith.

I've seen many posts that clearly point out that if something science comes up with contradicts the Bible, they'll believe the Bible before science, regardless of the scientific proof.
In medical circles, the word is "hallucination".

Minor nitpick, it would be a delusion, not hallucination. A delusion refers to the belief, a hallucination refers to sensory stimuli. In other words if they believe in the world is flat its a delusion. If they see / touch / hear God its a hallucination.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-10 02:26am

Discombobulated wrote:
Plekhanov wrote:
Discombobulated wrote:Listening to you talk, it sounds like a fantastic program. Any idea when or where an American can view it?
Rather like with the similarly UnAmerican 'Power of Nightmares' I suspect the answer might well be never, unless you indulge in a bit of downloading.
Sigh. Yeah, I figured that. I guess I'll keep my eyes peeled for [completely legal] downloads.

If you're after legal downloads of this I suggest you try www.archive.org which hosts all kinds of fascinating stuff, and might well get 'The Root of All Evil?' in 6 months time.

They used to host the brilliant 'The Power of Nightmares' link but no longer do because "The item is not available due to issues with the item's content." whatever that means.

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2006-01-10 10:36am

Just saw this, and it only reinforced my absolute confidence that many cristians are utter assholes and dumbasses.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-01-10 10:41am

Faram wrote:Just saw this, and it only reinforced my absolute confidence that many cristians are utter assholes and dumbasses.

What did it do for your opinion of Jewish apostates who turn to Islamic extremism?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-01-10 10:50am

Vendetta wrote:God is a complete cunt in the bible, in fact I can't think of another fictional villain responsible for quite as many atrocities as he personally ordered.

There's one to be starting with. Jehovah's small fry in comparison - Palaptine killed trillions for personal power.

Magnetic wrote:The God who sacrificed his son to pay for sin.

Unfortunately, if you look at it from the persepctive of god supposedly being omnipotent (something not really mentioned in the bible, but rather a matter of 'tradition') it makes no sense.

He sent his only son to suffer through an excruciating blood-ritual to appease him? Why? Couldn't he just wave his hand and all the sin would go away?

It's not really a sacrifice, anyway, he gets Jesus back. It's more accurately 'The God who brutally tortured his son to demonstrate to humans that he's serious about this sin thing.'

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2006-01-10 10:58am

Plekhanov wrote:
Faram wrote:Just saw this, and it only reinforced my absolute confidence that many cristians are utter assholes and dumbasses.
What did it do for your opinion of Jewish apostates who turn to Islamic extremism?

Like he said in the conclution.

All of us are atheist against most of the gods humankind has believed in, some of use just goes one god further.

And that jew/muslim is just another religious nut, no difference between him and your average christian.

Magnetic · Post by **Magnetic** » 2006-01-10 12:35pm

NecronLord wrote:
Magnetic wrote:The God who sacrificed his son to pay for sin.
Unfortunately, if you look at it from the persepctive of god supposedly being omnipotent (something not really mentioned in the bible, but rather a matter of 'tradition') it makes no sense.

He sent his only son to suffer through an excruciating blood-ritual to appease him? Why? Couldn't he just wave his hand and all the sin would go away?

It's not really a sacrifice, anyway, he gets Jesus back. It's more accurately 'The God who brutally tortured his son to demonstrate to humans that he's serious about this sin thing.'

I see your point. But I'm sure that I could get an apologetic answer from the christian forum. . . . . . . Perhaps I will, if it is okay to post what you said here (I'll not give your name).

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-01-10 12:53pm

Heh. Not a problem.

The best way to put that is: "He incarnates himself to sacrifice himself to himself to appease himself and make himself lift a curse he himself put on humans."

Magnetic · Post by **Magnetic** » 2006-01-10 02:21pm

NecronLord wrote:Heh. Not a problem.

The best way to put that is: "He incarnates himself to sacrifice himself to himself to appease himself and make himself lift a curse he himself put on humans."

Well, THAT is a mouth full! I'll add that too.

Thanks!