Of Force Lightning & Light Sabers

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2006-01-11 01:18pm

Okay, this is drawn from another forum, wherein a discussion developed on a lightsaber's ability (or lack of it) to deflect and/or absorb phaser beams, both narrowly-focused, and wide-area (or conically) focused:

We see lightsabers being used to absorb Force lightning in both AOTC and in ROTS. Moreover, we see lightsabers deflecting blaster bolts in every movie, and some have claimed to see blaster bolts "steered" into lightsabers at which they were not initially aimed. So......................

Do Jedi "steer" Force lightning into their lightsabers, or do the lightsabers in and of themselves "draw" or deflect Force lightning? Can lightsabers draw blaster bolts to them, or does the Jedi have to move the lightsaber directly into the intended path of the the bolt? Finally, what would the effect of a phaser be against a lightsaber, and what if it were set on "wide-area kill?"

Discuss.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-01-11 01:21pm

Actually was noted the Jedi push the power into that area in terms of Force Lightning.

For blaster shots, they allow the Force to tell them where the shot will be, depneds greatly on the immersion of the user.

As for wide angle shots, same problem Jedi would have with a grenade. It's scattered with no one specfic area. But with the phaser, there has been no documented wide angle kill shot, and the single beam would have the likely same effect as the blaster shot except the Jedi would now be working with a beam.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2006-01-11 01:32pm

That is an interesting thought. It explains why Kenobi was able to deflect lightning while young Anakin and Luke failed - it involved use of powers beyond point saber in direction of incoming attack.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-01-11 01:57pm

The problem about widebeam is that it's used so little even in close combat situations. True there's been no widebeam kill and a Jedi probably has resistance to stun--Roga Danar had resistance to stun and unless he was specifically designed to resist stun he probably just resists stun because of his excellent physique.

I was also thinking of the widebeam Tuvok shot. It wasn't exactly widebeam. It was more like a lot of single shot. The phaser may have been tracking the communicators. That would explain many of the "auto-aim" situations. Then, when fighting an enemy that isn't wearing a communicator like a Dominion soldier, the tracking probably doesn't work. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's the shot of Tuvok incapicating the entire bridge of Voyager with a Type-II).

Brian

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-01-11 02:04pm

unless he was specifically designed to resist stun he probably just resists stun because of his excellent physique.

High adrenaline levels counteract stun, even for a normal human (though in that case the adrenaline production was triggered by a parasite). Since Jedi appear able to influence their body's reactions, resisting stun should be quite possible.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-01-11 06:56pm

I would have thought being shot at or being in combat would give high adrenaline levels... I surprised it ever works.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-01-11 07:16pm

Sarevok wrote:That is an interesting thought. It explains why Kenobi was able to deflect lightning while young Anakin and Luke failed - it involved use of powers beyond point saber in direction of incoming attack.

Luke failed to block it with a lightsabre because he'd thrown his away, and Anakin, IIRC, had his guard down because he was rushing to attack Dooku.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-01-12 01:56am

Why not just say that this debate was over on Spacebattles? Considering I participated in the discussion, its not surprising I wouldn't notice this anyhow.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2006-01-12 09:13am

Connor MacLeod wrote:Why not just say that this debate was over on Spacebattles? Considering I participated in the discussion, its not surprising I wouldn't notice this anyhow.

Nothing wrong with mentioning them, but wasn't really satisfied with the outcome of that debate over there, which just seemed to spiral into a stalemate. Before I brought up Force Lightning and its effects vs. a lightsaber, most there seemed content that someone with a phaser could do in an armed Jedi. Don't know whether or not we're allowed to link anymore...

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2006-01-12 09:38am

Eh, I was already involved in the other thread, so you probably already know my stance on this one jegs. Needless to say, I believe the saber plays a role in the effects we see w/ force lightning.

And Surlethe, you're correct on your post re: Anakin. His was down as he was running over to Dooku, it was pointed more towards the floor.

Plushie · Post by **Plushie** » 2006-01-13 04:04pm

jegs2 wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:Why not just say that this debate was over on Spacebattles? Considering I participated in the discussion, its not surprising I wouldn't notice this anyhow.
Nothing wrong with mentioning them, but wasn't really satisfied with the outcome of that debate over there, which just seemed to spiral into a stalemate. Before I brought up Force Lightning and its effects vs. a lightsaber, most there seemed content that someone with a phaser could do in an armed Jedi. Don't know whether or not we're allowed to link anymore...

I don't see where they get that from. Blocking the shot with their saber is hardly the only option available to a Jedi -- that wide-angle shot from the video the one person posted could have been jumped (or ducked) away from by someone who knew it was coming (a jedi with pre-cog).

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-01-16 03:31pm

Bounty wrote:
unless he was specifically designed to resist stun he probably just resists stun because of his excellent physique.
High adrenaline levels counteract stun, even for a normal human (though in that case the adrenaline production was triggered by a parasite). Since Jedi appear able to influence their body's reactions, resisting stun should be quite possible.

Didn't Vader think he could capture Luke using troops with their blasters set for stun? Or perhaps this could be chalked up to his inexperience (Luke's)...

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-01-16 03:31pm

Then again Star Wars stun may work differently than Star Trek stun... duh, nevermind.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-01-16 03:33pm

Didn't Vader think he could capture Luke using troops with their blasters set for stun? Or perhaps this could be chalked up to his inexperience (Luke's)...

I was talking about Trek stun weapons. The stun blaster used in ANH looked like it operated on a completely different principle.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-01-16 07:39pm

Yeah, thanks I immediately caught my mistake after posting. Oh well...

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-01-16 08:51pm

Well it also was an injured Luke as well.

screamer_3 · Post by **screamer_3** » 2006-01-17 09:54am

Your right, all of you

DoctorPhanan · Post by **DoctorPhanan** » 2006-01-17 08:22pm

apocolypse wrote: Needless to say, I believe the saber plays a role in the effects we see w/ force lightning.

Although I agree with with you, I think it is important to mention that Yoda was able to counter the force lightning without the use of a lightsaber. Whether this is a different ability or an alternative to the use of a lightsaber I can't say, since Yoda is more powerful and knowledgable than both Kenobi and Windu.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-01-17 09:15pm

Personally I belive that the saber gives the Jedi a focus point (so basically you could block a Force lightning with a wooden stick as it's not the stick (or saber) that's doing the blocking but the Force) as we have seen saberless Jedi and/or Sith block delect Force lightning (Dooku in AOTC, Yoda in AOTC and ROTS and a partially successfull attempt by Luke Skywalker in ROTJ(Palpatine was too powerfull for Luke to fully counter him)).

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-01-18 02:28pm

Lord Revan wrote:Personally I belive that the saber gives the Jedi a focus point (so basically you could block a Force lightning with a wooden stick as it's not the stick (or saber) that's doing the blocking but the Force) as we have seen saberless Jedi and/or Sith block delect Force lightning (Dooku in AOTC, Yoda in AOTC and ROTS and a partially successfull attempt by Luke Skywalker in ROTJ(Palpatine was too powerfull for Luke to fully counter him)).

Does Luke even attempt to block it? IIRC, it came completely out of the blue, and Luke gets knocked back onto the post.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-01-18 02:33pm

Surlethe wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:Personally I belive that the saber gives the Jedi a focus point (so basically you could block a Force lightning with a wooden stick as it's not the stick (or saber) that's doing the blocking but the Force) as we have seen saberless Jedi and/or Sith block delect Force lightning (Dooku in AOTC, Yoda in AOTC and ROTS and a partially successfull attempt by Luke Skywalker in ROTJ(Palpatine was too powerfull for Luke to fully counter him)).
Does Luke even attempt to block it? IIRC, it came completely out of the blue, and Luke gets knocked back onto the post.

The novel does state he tries and for a brief bit he is successful, but Palpatine just raises the bar and overwhelms Luke.

Doctor Doom · Post by **Doctor Doom** » 2006-01-18 02:49pm

Does the movie support the novel at all in that regard? In the film, it does seem that a lot of the lightning is missing Luke and going all over the place instead of hitting him directly, but does this necessarily mean Luke is blocking it, or could it simply be a factor of Palpatine wanting to torture Luke?

(I know that the novel is considered canon, I am not disputing the ability of Jedi to block Force Lightning with a lightsaber).

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-01-18 03:38pm

Blackjack Simmons wrote:Does the movie support the novel at all in that regard? In the film, it does seem that a lot of the lightning is missing Luke and going all over the place instead of hitting him directly, but does this necessarily mean Luke is blocking it, or could it simply be a factor of Palpatine wanting to torture Luke?

(I know that the novel is considered canon, I am not disputing the ability of Jedi to block Force Lightning with a lightsaber).

When the first bolts hit him, he is raising his arm, and isn't fully on the ground. The next blast makes him fall square on his ass.

It just means Luke in both novel and movie tried something, got partial sucess and failed when the Emperor decided to raise it notch above Luke's abilities.

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2006-01-18 09:02pm

DoctorPhanan wrote:
apocolypse wrote: Needless to say, I believe the saber plays a role in the effects we see w/ force lightning.
Although I agree with with you, I think it is important to mention that Yoda was able to counter the force lightning without the use of a lightsaber. Whether this is a different ability or an alternative to the use of a lightsaber I can't say, since Yoda is more powerful and knowledgable than both Kenobi and Windu.

Oh most definately. We see proof that a saber isn't necessarily required to block or counter force lightning, but the saber seems to (imo) have a quality to it that assists somehow. While it's possible that the saber gives a focus point as Revan stated, I tend to believe that there is something about the saber itself. We see the Jedi focus and concentrate (such as Yoda) when blocking or absorbing lightning, yet Obi-Wan just fairly casually holds up his saber to absorb Dooku's lightning without much concentration on it.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2006-01-18 10:32pm

That would depend on the nature of Force Lightning. If it's simply Force-generated electricity, then it's quite likely that the properties that allow lightsabres to reflect blaster bolts also allow it to stop Force Lightning.

However, IIRC Force Lightning is actually a life draining attack, with the visible lightning similar to a tracer. If that's the case, then the lightsaber would be a focal point for the defender to block with.