Was Apollo worth it?

[phongn]

Was the Apollo Program worth it? We made it to the moon by the end of the 1960s, but would a more gradual, sustained program instead of the "drop everything and head to the moon" served the United States better?

[Admiral Valdemar]

No, because it was all about the dick waving. If the Soviets landed on the moon first, it'd be all over. They already beat the US and everyone else on everything before, so getting to Luna was the main goal of NASA at that time, no matter how useless or wasteful it may or may not have been.

[RedImperator]

Apollo let us develop, in short order, the technology needed to reach the moon. The landings were really just a test of the equipment that could have let us develop a real space presence, or led to better equipment down the line. The problem wasn't Apollo, it was the fact we never followed up.

[phongn]

Oh, I know that Apollo wasn't the problem, per se (it was, and remains, the political will). I

[Alyeska]

The amount of scientific data taken from the Apollo program was substanial. It was definately worth it. If we think the Mars programs are worth it today, the level of data we recieved from Apollo definately made it worth while.

[phongn]

I wasn't advocating not going to the moon - only doing so by way other than Apollo. Perhaps with greater concentration on the X-15/Dynasoar lineage to reach into space and an effort to build something of an infrastructure rather than shoot straight to the moon and ignore everything else in the meanwhile.

[Sea Skimmer]

Was the Apollo Program worth it? We made it to the moon by the end of the 1960s, but would a more gradual, sustained program instead of the "drop everything and head to the moon" served the United States better?

Such a program could have served America better I think, but it would also be at higher risk of being canacled or greatly scaled back, far more then Apollo was.

[Coyote]

I think Apollo was woth it for many reasons, and political and patriotic reasons do count (although not as much as the science and proving that it could happen). While patriotic and all that as a US effort, I really do see it as a victory of all human achievement.

Another thing Apollo does for us these days: it goads us. We live in the shadow of that achievement, and each day the scientific community must find a way to rise out of that shadow to new heights. We're making progress-- slowly-- but it stands as a reminder that we can't rest, we must keep trying.

[Winston Blake]

Was the Apollo Program worth it? We made it to the moon by the end of the 1960s, but would a more gradual, sustained program instead of the "drop everything and head to the moon" served the United States better?

IIRC a shitload of programs were cancelled straight off the bat just to free up funding for Apollo. The 'drop everything' approach meant that a future filled with space travel and space development was replaced by 'what method will get us to the moon as soon as possible, to hell with the expense?'

I don't know if it's true, but i remember reading an argument that if Apollo never happened, we would have landed a man on Mars by about now. Maybe i'm just a sucker for futuro-nostalgia, but i find it really disappointing that the science fiction authors of the 50s would never have dreamt humanity would fly to the moon, then retreat back to low orbit for 50 years.

[Patrick Degan]

The short answer: YES.

[CaptJodan]

Going just to go and see what's out there doesn't seem to be a good enough purpose for the majority of the general public. International dick waving was the only way it was going to get done, and I kind of doubt that we would be to Mars by now without some kind of dick waving. Chances are, had Apollo not happened, we just wouldn't have gone.

It seems to be, within the space community, the opinion that the relative lack of competition has led to this kind of stagnation. Not that China and others aren't doing their best to get to the moon, they're going to. It's just that the stakes aren't as high, and people look at it and say "Well yeah, but we were there 40 years ago. Why do we have to go again?"

I think it is something that humanity itself can look at and say "We did that" but then that's easy to say coming from someone who lives in the country who did it. I doubt many others in other countries really see it as a high point.

I think it was worth every penny, and I'd gladly pay to do more (if only I could inform the government of what I wanted my taxes to pay for). Obviously I'd be looking for more of a perminate settlement, or a testbed for the next generation of manned spacecraft (dry run). And what of that supposed fuel I keep hearing about that others claim may exist there. Something the scientists seem to think might be somewhat useful. (I know, shipping would be a bitch, but it might be good for something.)

I know a lot of people who lived through that period (not I) who look to that event as a source of awe and wonder to this day. These days they just wish we'd get back to it.

[Eleas]

Going just to go and see what's out there doesn't seem to be a good enough purpose for the majority of the general public. International dick waving was the only way it was going to get done, and I kind of doubt that we would be to Mars by now without some kind of dick waving. Chances are, had Apollo not happened, we just wouldn't have gone.

It seems to be, within the space community, the opinion that the relative lack of competition has led to this kind of stagnation. Not that China and others aren't doing their best to get to the moon, they're going to. It's just that the stakes aren't as high, and people look at it and say "Well yeah, but we were there 40 years ago. Why do we have to go again?"

I think it is something that humanity itself can look at and say "We did that" but then that's easy to say coming from someone who lives in the country who did it. I doubt many others in other countries really see it as a high point.

Perhaps not as a whole, but I and many others think it's quite a neat thing, and are fully aware of the many, many, many benefits brought us by the Apollo program.

Incidentally, I'd love for governments to see some small amount of reason on the nuclear issue -- a fission powered rocket would be the shit.

[CaptJodan]

Incidentally, I'd love for governments to see some small amount of reason on the nuclear issue -- a fission powered rocket would be the shit.

New Horizons is scheduled to launch today with 10 kilos of radioactive material to help power the probe. (If it goes, I'll probably watch it from my house. You know, hope that the improbable doesn't actually happen) So I guess on the nuclear issue we're getting a little closer.

[phongn]

New Horizons is scheduled to launch today with 10 kilos of radioactive material to help power the probe. (If it goes, I'll probably watch it from my house. You know, hope that the improbable doesn't actually happen) So I guess on the nuclear issue we're getting a little closer.

We've been using RTGs for years, though.

[CaptJodan]

I know, but it doesn't mean the hype for it has gone down. Living inside the 60 mile zone of potential radiation spillage (at least for this launch)means I get to hear a lot of fanatics go crazy over the fact that we're using it.

[tharkûn]

The spinoff technologies alone recouped the budget for Apollo. Space research easily repays its budget by leading to a better economy overall. Apollo could have been run better and had superior goals, but it certainly wasn't a money drain in the long term.

[Flagg]

New Horizons is scheduled to launch today with 10 kilos of radioactive material to help power the probe. (If it goes, I'll probably watch it from my house. You know, hope that the improbable doesn't actually happen) So I guess on the nuclear issue we're getting a little closer.

We've been using RTGs for years, though.

It doesn't stop the fanatical fucktards from acting like it's the end of the goddamned world, though. I live in Palm Bay, FL, which is about 40 miles away from the launch site, so I have to listen to alot of the mewling at work. In fact I remembwe news broadcasts from back in 1997 when they launched Cassini. There were all of these protesters out there at the gate to KSC during the launch, with their fucking children talking about how it was going to be a complete nuclear disaster.
They were actually crying as the thing went up, leading me to believe that they are either completed retarded from huffing paint thinner, or disingenuous assholes. I mean if you honestly believed that a rocket with a payload that includes plutonium is going to blow up and shower the area with radioactive debris, wouldn't you haul your children as far away as you possibly could?

That said, however I do think that it may be at least a good PR move to launch probes with radioactive material as a fuel source from somewhere in the Mojave desert where even if the worst case scenario occurs there is a minimal threat to surrounding populations. Especially considering how heavily populated the Space Coast is.

[LadyTevar]

::sips her Tang, plays with the Velcro on her shoe. Types the answer on her personal computer so it can be read via the internet by people on the far side of the world::

Everybody knows nothing good came from the Space Program!

[Skylon]

I wasn't advocating not going to the moon - only doing so by way other than Apollo. Perhaps with greater concentration on the X-15/Dynasoar lineage to reach into space and an effort to build something of an infrastructure rather than shoot straight to the moon and ignore everything else in the meanwhile.

In the long run, possibly. However, the total abandonment of Apollo-era hardware I see as just as tragic as the abandonment of the X-15/X-20 programs. The X-20 at the very least would have proved invaluable as a research program.

Apollo could have provided substantial grounds for a space infrastructure. In some regards it did, ground facilities built for Apollo are still in use today. In terms of space, I don't think one need look any further than Skylab (which I still believe is the largest single payload deployed into orbit). In one shot the Saturn V deployed the largest space station until the multi-module Mir. If Saturn production continued who knows what else could have been launched, as the hardware was continually proven and improved with each lunar mission. Scaling back to LEO wouldn't have been a practical problem.

[tharkûn]

The altitude at which any spacecraft disaster would occur and the kinetic energy imparted during the explosion makes it irrelevant where you launch. Things far, far away will either be contaminated (in some sort of utter cock-up) or nothing will happen even close to the pad (in normal disasters).

[Flagg]

The altitude at which any spacecraft disaster would occur and the kinetic energy imparted during the explosion makes it irrelevant where you launch. Things far, far away will either be contaminated (in some sort of utter cock-up) or nothing will happen even close to the pad (in normal disasters).

It's interesting that you would say that considering the fact that on 2 occasions in 9th grade my school was locked down due to rocket explosions at the cape. In both instances a toxic cloud from the explosions was blown south right to my area.

[phongn]

It's interesting that you would say that considering the fact that on 2 occasions in 9th grade my school was locked down due to rocket explosions at the cape. In both instances a toxic cloud from the explosions was blown south right to my area.

I think he's referring to RTG comtamination (which probably will be ejected) rather than poison products of rocket explosions

[Flagg]

It's interesting that you would say that considering the fact that on 2 occasions in 9th grade my school was locked down due to rocket explosions at the cape. In both instances a toxic cloud from the explosions was blown south right to my area.

I think he's referring to RTG comtamination (which probably will be ejected) rather than poison products of rocket explosions

It depends on how many seconds into the launch the explosion takes place. In one of the aforementioned rocket explosions debris landed on KSC and surrounding areas, including residential areas.
If New Horizons were to explode within 40 seconds of launch, and the protective casing that holds the plutonium were to rupture, all of Brevard county, and much of Orange, Volusia, Seminole, and Indian River counties would be contaminated. That is close on a million people considering the fact that we are talking about the outskirts of Orlando as well.

[drachefly]

The thing is, the things that burst had a reason to burst -- they were involved in getting the thing off the ground, explosions were happening in them.

The armor on the nuclear elements is not being stressed during launch.

[Uraniun235]

I don't know if it's true, but i remember reading an argument that if Apollo never happened, we would have landed a man on Mars by about now.

That assumes that we would have kept at it.

Although I wonder if we would have been inspired to make a try for Mars if the Russians had beaten us to the Moon as well.