I'm in space (RAR!)

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

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Dooey Jo
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I'm in space (RAR!)

Post by Dooey Jo »

As the RAR! hints, this is a hypothetical scenario. I put it in SLAM, because it's primarily about evidence and stuff, and thus science and logic. But it could probably go just as well in OST or even OT, so if this thread is moved, I won't mind (not that it would make any difference if I did :P ).


Yeah, anyway, here's the scenario. NASA, and many independent astronomers have recently noticed a huge (>600 metres) spaceship in orbit around Earth. They have tried contacting it but there has been no answer. Then, one day, it is gone. Of course, major speculation ensumes all around Earth regarding the origin of that thing, and if it really was a spaceship. The pictures the telescopes managed to get were quite blurry after all, though the object did clearly seem to emit some light.

Now, the ship wasn't the only thing that suddenly disappeared. A member of this board did, too. Unbeknowst to everyone else, this person was actually picked up by a small transport ship launched from the larger spaceship, for reasons not entirely clear. It was one of those silent lurkers that mostly just likes to read the threads here and only occasionaly comments, so no-one immediately notice his absence. However, the person in question is very excited and a bit anxious about his "abduction", and understandably so. Fortunately, these aliens, which have studied Earth for some years now, have a computer terminal that is super-luminally linked to a communications probe stationed near Earth. They use this to listen to all radio communication on Earth, which means that they have (you guessed it) inter-galactic broadband.

To make this person a little more comfortable in his extraordinary position, the seemingly friendly aliens let him use this computer terminal to access the earthly Internet. Of course, he wants to tell people on Earth that, holy shit; he is in fucking space in a fucking starship! But he doesn't really want to create one of those weird hypes like that guy who claimed he was a time-traveller from the future. So he decides to address a more reasonable crowd; SDN, and partly because he knows all the sci-fi fans here would, perhaps more so than others, appreciate this weird revelation. So he goes to HoS (to avoid unnecessary publicity and the subsequent bandwidth-death of SDN) and clicks to start a new thread.
"I'm in fucking space!!"

But then he hestitates and remember that there is a down-side to all this reason: Everyone is going to think that he is lying through his teeth and he would surely be banned for not being able to back up his quite preposterous claims. And rightly so, due to the extremely improbable nature of it all.


So, question number one is: What kind of evidence would he have to supply in order to convince most or everyone here that he is in fact on board a spaceship from another galaxy (according to the ETs; he can't know that of course). Obivously, it's going to have to be evidence that he can send through the Internet. He won't be able to make the ship go back or anything like that.

Question number two: Would it be reasonable to assume the object seen was in fact a spaceship? If so, would that give more credibility to his story? If not, if he could prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is on a spaceship, would it then be reasonable to assume the object was a spaceship, or in fact, the spaceship?


What do you think?


*end RAR! Rest is personal reflections*

First, I thought that I obviously wouldn't believe a word of what this crazy person said. But then, what if he had a camera, and took pictures the ship? He gets a little more credible, but it could just mean that he's a really good CG artist (in fact, that would be a highly reasonable conclusion). Okay, so pictures isn't good enough. What about a video camera, then? He records the ship and himself in a few video clips, which he sends for us here to see. "Looks like deleted scenes from Star Wars", says someone, and is right. He still could just be really good with that 3D-program, although those aliens sure did look and sound real, and strange that there was a weird computer with SDN on it. But that could be faked, maybe not so easily though.

The thing I came up with that would be very hard to fake would be to set up a real-time web-cam feed, where people get to suggest places that he should show us. Like the bridge (which actually might be off-limits for him) or the inter-galactic toilet and lots of random stuff. And the hangar, definitely the hangar! If he could pull that off, I think I might believe him, at least until someone could show that it was fake (even though it wasn't, but nevermind that), but I'd still think it was the oddest thing ever.

If you agree with my idea, what would you ask him to do?
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Post by Zero »

I probably just wouldn't believe the fucker on principle. Just about any justification I could come up with would be more likely then that the fucker actually was abducted by aliens. I imagine that if he did show multitudes of evidence to support his claims, there would be quite a dispite between various SDN members on whether or not to believe him, but I probably would stay out of any debate and just disbelieve the whole bit. I mean, how the fuck would intergalactic broadband work anyways?
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Post by bilateralrope »

One thing I would do is find out what ip address I'm using from the ship and see if I can trace it to an isp on earth. If I can, this method becomes worthless. If I can't I mention this (and any other proof I have) and get a moderator to confirm the ip address I'm posting from.

I'm not sure what else I'd do though
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Post by Eleas »

bilateralrope wrote:One thing I would do is find out what ip address I'm using from the ship and see if I can trace it to an isp on earth. If I can, this method becomes worthless.
Why? If I were the aliens, the easiest way for me to give someone internet access is to go via an existing one. It'd be pretty much impossible to surf the web without having an IP, I should think.
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Post by Molyneux »

Hm...tampering with actual video and making it look perfectly real, while possible, is difficult - much more difficult than Photoshopping a still, anyhow. Someone with video clips of himself and aliens would most likely either have to have months of spare time on his hands and some fairly expensive programs, or have a movie studio's resources to use.

I'd be inclined to believe him, given high-quality video evidence. With live contact such as a webcam, I'd probably be pretty darn easily convinced.
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Post by Anguirus »

Personally, I'm sure that if there are ETs out there, they look like nothing I've ever imagined. I would be much less likely to be convinced if he just described Grays, or humanoids with weird skin, or octopi, or whatever. Something totally outside my conception, caught on tape, would go a long way towards convincing me.
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This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
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Post by Molyneux »

Anguirus wrote:Personally, I'm sure that if there are ETs out there, they look like nothing I've ever imagined. I would be much less likely to be convinced if he just described Grays, or humanoids with weird skin, or octopi, or whatever. Something totally outside my conception, caught on tape, would go a long way towards convincing me.
Well, why can't it be something vaguely akin to humans, or at least understandable? There are a limited (though very large) number of bodily types and carbon-based physiologies that will work, and certain ones work better than others. It'd be hard to conceive of an intelligent, technological species with no means of communication between individuals, for one thing, and they'd pretty much have to have some type of fine manipulator.
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Post by Winston Blake »

If you agree with my idea, what would you ask him to do?
'If you are not on an alien intergalactic spaceship, fuck you, you lying ignorant glass-tapping mucus of a man. I fart on your brain. However, if you are, in fact, on an alien intergalactic spaceship, please welcome the aliens on my behalf.'

Dooey Jo, have you, in fact, been abducted by aliens and are using this 'hypothetical' to figure out how to actually prove it? If so, how fast is the alien internet plan? Does it have an an off-peak period? Is there a download cap or does it just slow down after 20GB?

Personally i wouldn't accept any internet-deliverable proof, since a well-funded hoax is far less of an extraordinary explanation than actual freakin aliens.
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Post by Hawkwings »

Can I somehow send a "ping" from the probe stationed near Earth that would allow people on Earth to receive it? If so, they could quadrangulate (triangulate, except with 4 points :P) the location of the probe. Since it's in space, that would be pretty damn good proof that either A) I'm so rich/well connected that I can ping stuff from space or B) i'm really abducted by aliens.

Combine that with video, live if possible, and that would be pretty convincing.
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Post by Hawkwings »

oh yes. I'd also probably also PM my real name/address to several discreet (or physically close) SDN members so they could check my house, talk to my parents, see that I am indeed missing, tell my parents that I am in an intergalactic spaceship, and report back.
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Post by Hawkwings »

third post, yeah, but w/e

to address question #2, if many space agencies/scientists around the world noticed this ship appear, stick around for a while, thn disappear, I'd say it's pretty good proof that it is indeed a spaceship. Now, how to prove that this was the spaceship I'm on, I have no idea.

BTW, how much do the aliens trust me? Enough to take me back in a shuttle-pod? Or send a shuttle back with a message?
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Post by Anguirus »

Well, why can't it be something vaguely akin to humans, or at least understandable? There are a limited (though very large) number of bodily types and carbon-based physiologies that will work, and certain ones work better than others. It'd be hard to conceive of an intelligent, technological species with no means of communication between individuals, for one thing, and they'd pretty much have to have some type of fine manipulator.
If I'd lived before the duck-billed platypus was discovered, I would not have been able to conjure one in my head. Not exactly.

I accept humanoid aliens in sci-fi simply because I'm suspending my disbelief. Now, could real ETs be bipedal, with bilateral symmetry? I'm sure. But if they look like they could possibly be humans in makeup or suits, or even like a pop culture conception of an alien, I would be vastly harder to convince.
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This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
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Post by Molyneux »

Anguirus wrote:
Well, why can't it be something vaguely akin to humans, or at least understandable? There are a limited (though very large) number of bodily types and carbon-based physiologies that will work, and certain ones work better than others. It'd be hard to conceive of an intelligent, technological species with no means of communication between individuals, for one thing, and they'd pretty much have to have some type of fine manipulator.
If I'd lived before the duck-billed platypus was discovered, I would not have been able to conjure one in my head. Not exactly.

I accept humanoid aliens in sci-fi simply because I'm suspending my disbelief. Now, could real ETs be bipedal, with bilateral symmetry? I'm sure. But if they look like they could possibly be humans in makeup or suits, or even like a pop culture conception of an alien, I would be vastly harder to convince.
What if they were Vermicious Knids?
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Post by Dooey Jo »

Zero132132 wrote:I mean, how the fuck would intergalactic broadband work anyways?
Time-shift compensating micro-wormholes ;)
And also wormhole relay stations along the way, to avoid latency (their superluminal signals may be fast, but not fast enough for intergalactic communication).
Winston Blake wrote:Dooey Jo, have you, in fact, been abducted by aliens and are using this 'hypothetical' to figure out how to actually prove it? If so, how fast is the alien internet plan? Does it have an an off-peak period? Is there a download cap or does it just slow down after 20GB?
No no, I'm not abducted :twisted:
And well, the probe has access to the phone networks of Earth, and such stuff, so how fast it is depends on how they get in. Maybe the probe has sent a mini-probe to land and get physical access to phone and cable lines. Then it should be able to transmit as fast as the lines permit (well, it would be impossible to send any faster, no matter how it gets Internet access). A triangulation would then ideally point to the small probe, which might be located in some remote forest or something. But it would probably be using proxy-servers and lots of hacking; I don't think the aliens has an ISP... Or maybe they do. They could have hijacked someone else's phoneline... 8)
Hawkwings wrote:oh yes. I'd also probably also PM my real name/address to several discreet (or physically close) SDN members so they could check my house, talk to my parents, see that I am indeed missing, tell my parents that I am in an intergalactic spaceship, and report back.
That's a good idea, but they might just think that you have run away and is hiding somewhere with a computer. And your parents would probably not believe some strange persons that knocks on their door and tells them that their missing child says hi and has been abucted by aliens...
Hawkwings wrote:BTW, how much do the aliens trust me? Enough to take me back in a shuttle-pod? Or send a shuttle back with a message?
Maybe, but by the time they show you the computer terminal, you're already many lightyears from Earth, on your way to a galaxy far far away (but not the galaxy far far away). You could probably convince them to take you back on their next expedition, which would be in a few months or so...
Molyneux wrote:Well, why can't it be something vaguely akin to humans, or at least understandable? There are a limited (though very large) number of bodily types and carbon-based physiologies that will work, and certain ones work better than others. It'd be hard to conceive of an intelligent, technological species with no means of communication between individuals, for one thing, and they'd pretty much have to have some type of fine manipulator.
One could also wonder what business a bunch of aliens from another galaxy could have with Earthly humans, if they're so completely different from them that they could never understand them. Of course, we wouldn't be able to know that they're from that far away, other than through what that person says. And he wouldn't be able to know that either, not even when he's actually there... But maybe they stop breifly and let him take picture of the Milky Way ;)
Anguirus wrote:But if they look like they could possibly be humans in makeup or suits, or even like a pop culture conception of an alien, I would be vastly harder to convince.
What if some of the aliens looks like that, and some others look totally weird? Something like green, hopping, amorphous, bioluminescent blobs of non-sticky goo that produce weird buzzing sounds and are part of the cleaning and engineering crews (or something completely different)?



Suppose this person asked the aliens really nicely, and they let him send back schematics of an extra-terrestial device (something simple that wouldn't immediately have a huge impact on life on Earth and that could actually be built using modern materials. A hyperdimensional blender or something). Obviously, no one will be able to build one during the first weeks, but let's say someone eventually got a prototype working. The person has probably stopped communicating by then (maybe they put him in the galactic zoo!), but would the fact that these weird schematics of this very strange thing were valid and the machine actually worked give him any more credibility in anyone's opinion?
He could just be a really smart guy that invented the thing himself, and wanted to hype it (but then he wouldn't get any money since he's still missing, and no one really knows that it's ET tech)...
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Post by Anguirus »

What if they were Vermicious Knids?
Then, obviously, I would promptly go mad. :o
What if some of the aliens looks like that, and some others look totally weird? Something like green, hopping, amorphous, bioluminescent blobs of non-sticky goo that produce weird buzzing sounds and are part of the cleaning and engineering crews (or something completely different)?
Humanoids and hopping goo...yep, Hollywood could do that for a few thousand dollars. I'd have to see the weirdos in question, I guess.
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"I pity the woman you marry." -Liberty

This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.
Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal.
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Post by Prozac the Robert »

How about something to do with computing power? Assuming that computing power doubles every 18 months, and the aliens are hundreds of years ahead of us, then if they let me use one of their computers I would conceivably have more computing power at my fingertips than there is on earth.

I could maybe persuade one of you lot to send me some data (SETI at home?), and I could calculate the hell of it and send it back in real time.
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Post by Solauren »

Proof you're in space......

hmmmm....

Send back a probe and park it in orbit
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Post by Winston Blake »

Dooey Jo wrote:Suppose this person asked the aliens really nicely, and they let him send back schematics of an extra-terrestial device (something simple that wouldn't immediately have a huge impact on life on Earth and that could actually be built using modern materials. A hyperdimensional blender or something).
Epilogue:
We spent countless billions. Follow the designs exactly. Why the hell didn't it work?
Sir, further analysis of the alien transmission indicates they are a race of master chefs. The device is NOT intended to transport people.

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Perhaps if he asked really, really nicely they'd let him send a document containing a nice complete Theory of Everything? Or hitherto undiscovered proofs of various theorems and hypotheses? Or highly detailed observational data beyond our current instruments? Of course, when Kuroneko presents these things to an international symposium, he will either:
  • 1. Be outrageously praised, then when he says where he got it from, mercilessly mocked.
    2. Set physics and mathematics back several decades by giving the entire audience fatal heart attacks.
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Post by Cykeisme »

I think a reasonably good initial approach would be, as Winston Blake suggested, to describe my situation in a purely hypothetical manner. If this is indeed the case, Dooey, say hi to the aliens for me.


The important part about establishing internet access for our abducted SDnet comrade would be to interface their network with ours. I think they'd have to place some sort of object here, on the surface, connected in a conventional manner to the internet. It would then uplink to the orbiting component with the interstellar FTL communication ability.

Unless the aliens specifically took measures to make this difficult for us, (which is not only possible, but likely), it would be possible to locate the interface point through a method starting with its IP address. From there, I'm not sure where we'd go. Well, that is,


As for the appearance of the aliens, since I'm being abducted alone and would not see Earth or other humans for a long time (or forever), I sure as hell hope the explorer ship belongs to Twi'Leks!
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Post by Cykeisme »

Clarification of third paragraph: I mean that it's likely that the aliens would have put sophisticated measures in place to prevent us from locating any components in their internet/FTL net interface.

At worst, we might even risk disrupting his internet access. The horror!
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Post by Dooey Jo »

I see now that I wrote "OST" in the OP. That should of course be "OSF". Typodemons...
Winston Blake wrote:Epilogue:
We spent countless billions. Follow the designs exactly. Why the hell didn't it work?
Sir, further analysis of the alien transmission indicates they are a race of master chefs. The device is NOT intended to transport people.
ROFL! :lol:
Poor Jodie Foster... :twisted:
Winston Blake wrote: Perhaps if he asked really, really nicely they'd let him send a document containing a nice complete Theory of Everything? Or hitherto undiscovered proofs of various theorems and hypotheses?
Yes, that could probably work. But maybe he'll have a fatal heart attack when the aliens try to explain it to him... It'd have to be something that wouldn't take five hundred years for us to validate though...
Cykeisme wrote:I think a reasonably good initial approach would be, as Winston Blake suggested, to describe my situation in a purely hypothetical manner. If this is indeed the case, Dooey, say hi to the aliens for me.
Nah, if I were really in space, I'd write something like
"My friend is in intergalactic space with aliens, and there's this forum that he'd like to tell the weird news to, but he's afraid that they'll mock him mercilessly. What should he do? He has unlimited Internet access." :wink:
Cykeisme wrote:As for the appearance of the aliens, since I'm being abducted alone and would not see Earth or other humans for a long time (or forever), I sure as hell hope the explorer ship belongs to Twi'Leks!
Maybe they're not explorers, but Twi'leks prospecting for exotic sex-slaves to sell to rich Hutts :shock:


Perhaps an even better thing to do would be to look for the probe that the aliens already have in orbit near Earth. There's no way he could have put a thing like that there, without there being documents about it somewhere. Would be interesting if NASA or someone could bring it down to Earth. Then we'll never hear from him again, but at least we'd know he wasn't lying (if he described accurately, in detail, what it looked like)...
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