Russian Federation vs British Empire

[Hammer]

That is, the Russian Federation of today vs the British Empire when it was at the height of its power.

Which would win?

[Captain tycho]

That is, the Russian Federation of today vs the British Empire when it was at the height of its power.

Which would win?

You might wanna change that title.
At first I thought it was ST vs SW.
Put down Brits vs Russians or something.
BTW, Russia would win.

[Sea Skimmer]

Empire was at its height before WW1 you know.

We'll the RN would be wiped out in a week or so. Battleships would be utterly destroyed by single heavy missile hits from Tu-22M's. Even if the blast and mach 3 diving impact doesn't kill them the fuel fires sure will.

Kuznetsov's Flankers rape everything with bombs and missiles while Sovremenny's steam around shattering destroyers and cruisers with missiles, radar direct gunfire and over the size 533's. SSN's and SSGN's slaughter shipping around the globe. Heck if they could get a Typhoon moving and load up all the supply storage with ATGW's and bomb's they'd be pretty damn effective. With so many wooden ships about just ramming them would work.

This is a hopeless slaughter with the RN obliterated, shipping cut off to the UK, colonies seized by detachments airdropped in and the Russians generally kicking ass.

Russia should be able to round up enough LASH barge transports and other vessels to move a division or two to the UK, and that should be enough to take London. Securing the city might be a problem though. Buy moving in tens of thousands more troops would be fairly easy once an airstrip could be built and the port secured.

At this point me thinks its victory to Russia.

[Kuja]

This is so one-sided it's not even funny. The Bear, all the way.

[paladin]

That is, the Russian Federation of today vs the British Empire when it was at the height of its power.

Which would win?

The Russian Bear wins by NUKING London. case closed.

[Marcus]

Hight of power absolute, or relative?

I assume you mean relative, IE, the 'heyday' of the British Empire.

Absolute terms (Modern Britain) vs an assumed Modern Russia (British Empire at ANY point vs the Soviet Union at the height of its power is just not fair, or funny) could be interesting.

Ill be honest, I dont know enough about the current force compositions.

Assuming it didnt go nuclear (in which case, everyone looses), it comes down to naval assets. The Bear still swims, but he doesnt do so nearly as well as once he did. The British Navy has cut back from its cold war peak, but their SSN forces are in some ways second to none... Trafalgar is likely slightly quieter than a Block II LA. (not sure about BlockIII).

That said, the soviets at one point had rather alot of Akulas, et. al., and to my knowledge the Submarine force is the one aspect of their naval force composition thats been kept seaworthy... most of the rest of their navy is rusting.

We also have to take into account the level of morale and training in the modern Russian navy (questionable... its that whole money thing. They dont have much), whereas the Brits have the longest running naval tradition of any naval power, and train their officers at least as well as the U.S. does. (The U.S. Submarine officer is a product of Rickovens Nuclear Navy... hes a bit more focused on being an engineer than a tactician. In fact, that criticism has been leveled at the navy as a whole... our navy has too great a tendancy to seek out enginnering solutions to every problem. While great in its own way, oftimes tactical solutions are more useful in the intrim)

Wow, a bit off topic, wandered have I.

[Omega-13]

The russians have more SAM's then grains of sand on a beach, an airwar over Russia just isn't going to happen.

I'm getting sick and tired of people always saying russian equipment is sub par, and that the 'west' (most american) equipment is much more advanced, ,

you guys realize that everytime another country wants something advanced, (china and India mostly) that they always ask the russians to help them out, there are several things that the Russians have that even the americans fear

a few things i'd like you guys to read
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article ... 3950.shtml
a good article on russian missles in china

SS-N-22 Sunburn is just another example of what russia has to offer,

these missle systems are just heads and shoulders above the competition.


This war would be a quick one, not to mention Su-37's with plasma stealth already out and flying

Mig 29 Fulcrums (and old aircraft) which the russians are now selling to anyone who wants to buy one, they are old and the russians have better fighters,

t-90's (which are already outclassed) by the t-95,

The russians aren't even keeping the Black Eagle, they don't need it, North Korea gets that one

"America is only a superpower in America"
always comes to mind,


not that this is about america vs russia, but just saying,

everyone undestimates russia because they are reading too much american news papers, american tv shows, and american news networks,

of course they are going to bash russia,

just my thoughts

[fgalkin]

Empire was at its height before WW1 you know.

We'll the RN would be wiped out in a week or so. Battleships would be utterly destroyed by single heavy missile hits from Tu-22M's. Even if the blast and mach 3 diving impact doesn't kill them the fuel fires sure will.

Kuznetsov's Flankers rape everything with bombs and missiles while Sovremenny's steam around shattering destroyers and cruisers with missiles, radar direct gunfire and over the size 533's. SSN's and SSGN's slaughter shipping around the globe. Heck if they could get a Typhoon moving and load up all the supply storage with ATGW's and bomb's they'd be pretty damn effective. With so many wooden ships about just ramming them would work.

This is a hopeless slaughter with the RN obliterated, shipping cut off to the UK, colonies seized by detachments airdropped in and the Russians generally kicking ass.

Russia should be able to round up enough LASH barge transports and other vessels to move a division or two to the UK, and that should be enough to take London. Securing the city might be a problem though. Buy moving in tens of thousands more troops would be fairly easy once an airstrip could be built and the port secured.

At this point me thinks its victory to Russia.

Amen.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Marcus]

Okay, did I miss the part where i was bashing Russia?

I said that their not adequately upkeeping their surface (and part of their submarine) fleet, for monentary reasons. This is true.

By the end of the U.S.S.R., they were producing alot of very, very effective toys. No doubt about that.

The Red Army was a terrifying force, its aircore huge, and in some sections very technologically adept.

However, what is often forgotten is exactly how fragile a military structure is. Stop pouring money into it, and it goes to pot rather quickly. Logistics matter even when your not off throwing a war.

That is the problem facing the current Russian military... how to downsize a no-longer-supportable forcestructure into something that can project power effectively, defend the worlds longest border against a nation with the worlds largest population, and not break the bank.

Note I didnt say anything at all about the U.S.S.R. circa, say, anytime between WWII and its collapse vs Great Britain... it wouldnt be a contest, all fairness to our allies in Great Britain.

[Hammer]

What idiot changed the title of this thread?

"Federation vs Empire" was designed to draw people in by making them think it was "UFP vs GE"

But now it's been changed to "Russian Federation vs British Empire"...

yeck

[Zaku-chan]

"Federation vs Empire" was designed to draw people in by making them think it was "UFP vs GE"

Which is why it was changed. Inappropriate or misleading thread titles are not amusing.

And Russia kicks the shit out of the British Empire.

[NecronLord]

Well I live in england, but I am Irish (no really, passport, citizenship, land in ireland{ok not very much}) So try to work out my bias.

Ask anyone who considers themselves english and middle or upper class (no offense if you are) and the'll tell you all about how powerful the british empire was. This is utter bull. The empire was not an empire as we understand the term. (from the latin (roman era) imperium meaning supreme power. The Empire was run by fear of force (as most are) however there was no real force to back it up. For example the empire died during/after WWII due to the people in the "colonies" finally discovering that the british are in fact not invincible.

Russia would win, even on modern terms. British millitary equipment is not worth the money for the copyrights. SA-80 for example. The russians would take this easily. (Hail glorious Mother Russia.)

[NecronLord]

Hell russian export equipment http://www.rusarm.ru/ is better than british front line equipment.

[Omega-13]

Hell russian export equipment http://www.rusarm.ru/ is better than british front line equipment.

Some of that stuff is more advanced than American front line equipment, and this is the stuff that they are exporting,

Check out their MLRS unit, ,it has a warhead that breaks apart and seeks out armour, the americans are just experimenting with that stuff now,

[Sea Skimmer]

Hell russian export equipment http://www.rusarm.ru/ is better than british front line equipment.

Some of that stuff is more advanced than American front line equipment, and this is the stuff that they are exporting,

Check out their MLRS unit, ,it has a warhead that breaks apart and seeks out armour, the americans are just experimenting with that stuff now,

So please do explain why the Russian's have not put there bomblet into production and America has thousands of its own BAT weapons deployed with combat operations.

America is already working on the next generation, which uses radar rather then infared seekers.

[Omega-13]

Hell russian export equipment http://www.rusarm.ru/ is better than british front line equipment.

Some of that stuff is more advanced than American front line equipment, and this is the stuff that they are exporting,

Check out their MLRS unit, ,it has a warhead that breaks apart and seeks out armour, the americans are just experimenting with that stuff now,

So please do explain why the Russian's have not put there bomblet into production and America has thousands of its own BAT weapons deployed with combat operations.

America is already working on the next generation, which uses radar rather then infared seekers.

into production? did you read the site? its been in production, and the production has stopped, its old.

We don't really know too well what the Russians have, TLC extreme machines don't brag about russian equipment often, or ever,

[Sea Skimmer]

The russians have more SAM's then grains of sand on a beach, an airwar over Russia just isn't going to happen.

I'm getting sick and tired of people always saying russian equipment is sub par, and that the 'west' (most american) equipment is much more advanced, ,

If you don't like the truth then reaility is not for you

you guys realize that everytime another country wants something advanced, (china and India mostly) that they always ask the russians to help them out, there are several things that the Russians have that even the americans fear
They ask Russia because America won't sell. When systems from both nations are in direct competetion the American system generally wins. Witness the F/A-18E deal to Malaysia[/]

a few things i'd like you guys to read
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article ... 3950.shtml
a good article on russian missles in china

SS-N-22 Sunburn is just another example of what russia has to offer,

these missle systems are just heads and shoulders above the competition.
A short ranged missile with a moderate warhead and seeker early 80's ECM can fool. Horrors. The whole world doesn't have enough launchers to overwhelming your typical USN task force, even if they could get within range. A half dozen other missiles can compete with it BTW




This war would be a quick one, not to mention Su-37's with plasma stealth already out and flying
The Russian have an single unarmed Su-37 Prototype. They have not even shown a mockup of their plasma stealth system. Despite having claimed to have it work for eight years they've never provided any real information on it nor photos nor anything at all other then a claime. It is most defiantly not in service.

Mig 29 Fulcrums (and old aircraft) which the russians are now selling to anyone who wants to buy one, they are old and the russians have better fighters,

t-90's (which are already outclassed) by the t-95,
Got a picture? No? guess what, no one else does either. Why? Because the single incomplete example that was built never left the factory's won testing ground and the entire project is nearly at a halt

The russians aren't even keeping the Black Eagle, they don't need it, North Korea gets that one That would be because the Black Eagle was devoloped specifically for export. North Korea won't be getting it though, they cant afford anything and in the last five years South Korea has bough mroe from the North. As it is only a single example exists and no ones buying

"America is only a superpower in America"
always comes to mind,
And the world. A simple comparision of OOB's will tell you that. As it stands Russia can even crush a few hundred guerrillas with light weapons, using 80,000 of there own troops
not that this is about america vs russia, but just saying,

everyone undestimates russia because they are reading too much american news papers, american tv shows, and american news networks,

of course they are going to bash russia,

just my thoughts

I might bother to have a real discussion about the pros and cons of the respective militaries. But you've demonstrated in one post that you lack the knowledge to make it worth my time.

[Omega-13]

just keep your nose as high as it goes, others might make your time worth while,

[Sea Skimmer]

just keep your nose as high as it goes, others might make your time worth while,

Actually I generally speak highly of Russian equipment and would incorporate quite a few systems into a military of my own creation. However I stick to reality and don't base my comparisons off bullshit like you.

Others have made my time worth while. Thats what about 2/3's of the posts in the Heavy Armor Brigade are about.

[Omega-13]

just keep your nose as high as it goes, others might make your time worth while,

Actually I generally speak highly of Russian equipment and would incorporate quite a few systems into a military of my own creation. However I stick to reality and don't base my comparisons off bullshit like you.

Others have made my time worth while. Thats what about 2/3's of the posts in the Heavy Armor Brigade are about.

bullshit you stick to reality, your swamped with 'western' media and information, ,just like 95% of the population who posts on these boards

[Sea Skimmer]

just keep your nose as high as it goes, others might make your time worth while,

Actually I generally speak highly of Russian equipment and would incorporate quite a few systems into a military of my own creation. However I stick to reality and don't base my comparisons off bullshit like you.

Others have made my time worth while. Thats what about 2/3's of the posts in the Heavy Armor Brigade are about.

bullshit you stick to reality, your swamped with 'western' media and information, ,just like 95% of the population who posts on these boards

And yet somehow you're enlightened despite being in a major Western nation? And yet you still can't refute a single one of my points. Lets see, I make comparisions based on things which acutally exist in usabul forms, you seize on unarmed singular examples and vaporware and use them to champion supremancy.

And yet I'm the one who doesnt face reaility?

Whats it like to live in a Bubble?

[Omega-13]

Actually I generally speak highly of Russian equipment and would incorporate quite a few systems into a military of my own creation. However I stick to reality and don't base my comparisons off bullshit like you.

Others have made my time worth while. Thats what about 2/3's of the posts in the Heavy Armor Brigade are about.

bullshit you stick to reality, your swamped with 'western' media and information, ,just like 95% of the population who posts on these boards

And yet somehow you're enlightened despite being in a major Western nation? And yet you still can't refute a single one of my points. Lets see, I make comparisions based on things which acutally exist in usabul forms, you seize on unarmed singular examples and vaporware and use them to champion supremancy.

And yet I'm the one who doesnt face reaility?

Whats it like to live in a Bubble?

one of your points?
you've had zero points, you've posted once about the topic, and the rest about my own postings, you've said nothing about the russian military, your just picking and poking, that is all,