Star Wars: Empire at War demo out tommorow

Laughing Mechanicus · Post by **Laughing Mechanicus** » 2006-01-18 06:50pm

I've just played through the demo and I must say it seems very promising, which is a great relief given I was dreading it somewhat. It looks nicer than the screenshots I've seen when in motion, it has a nice interface and both ground and space combat seem well fleshed out - even the "Risk" style campaign map where you build ships/troops and direct your forces between battles is well designed and easy to use.

Things I did not like:

In space maps (which you play when you assault a planet defended by a fleet) the designers have used asteroids to make certain parts of maps impassable. This just seems a bit corny, but it does at least make assaulting different worlds require somewhat different tactics. Some worlds have few asteroids while others have lots, these must be negotiated through in order to get to the enemy space stations which are essentially the "base" that must be destroyed. There are also patches of gas that interfere with ships causing them to lose shield regeneration and some other handicaps. Also they take place on a 2D plane, so don't expect Homeworld levels of tactical flexibility.

AT-ATs seem to have been made the Empires "medium tank". As an example on one ground mission I was left with only 5 or 6 squads of rebel troopers, and they were found by a roving AT-AT. They all concentrated their fire and took cover (which is a special ability that lets them take less damage) and slowly but surely ground the AT-ATs armour down and destroyed it. Almost all of them were killed in the attempt, but they did destroy it in the end using only handheld blasters. It is probably in the interests of gameplay to not make AT-ATs extremely tough, and it did absolutely decimate any vehicles that went near it. I did notice afterwards that walkers can squish infantry (Huzzah!) so the fact the AT-AT died to my infantry was probably more attributable to poor AI.

Things I liked:

From what the tutorial describes it seems the Rebels and the Empire have to play the game quite differently. For example, in the campaign map Rebels can see all the military units on and over planets adjacent to them thanks to spies, whereas for the Empire they must purchase and send probe droids to planets in order to see what’s there. Also different is how technology is gained, the Empire uses the standard method of building a research base on a planet and then choosing what they want to research next, however the rebels build spies which they send to Imperial planets to steal technologies the Empire has already researched (as a result the Empire always has a technology edge over the Rebels).

Everything on high, the game looks bloody nice. In space big chunks break off ships and space stations as they are damaged, and when they are totally destroyed they completely break apart and the debris floats around. The Rebels proton torpedo artillery also makes a very visually pleasing curtain of falling, spiralling missiles. There’s a cinematic camera you can use to watch your units as they fight, I used it on some Rebel missile soldiers and it first showed them then tracked the missiles they were firing into an AT-ST and then showed it collapsing to the ground.

So basically, it does take liberties with the canon (hardly unexpected) but still comes off as an enjoyable game. The ground battles don't have the tactical depth of Dawn of War and the space battles are limited compared to Homeworld, but combined together with the campaign map it should make for a very good game.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-01-18 08:46pm

I'm downloading the demo right now. I hope it's not as bad as some people here are saying it is. This was supposed to be the Star Wars RTS that didn't suck.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-18 09:26pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote: Yes, and I honestly have no idea what any of you are talking about. Did you like Rebellion? I thought Rebellion was a great game. Instead of being fan whores over the graphics perhaps you should actually read the article and see what EAW has to offer.

Rebellion was a great game despite it's numerous glaring flaws- the graphics for a game of that time were pretty terrible, the user interface needed serious work, etc. But it was Star Wars and it allowed me to build a kick-ass Imperial Starfleet and crush the Rebellion, so I liked it.

Also, KS, the game is nothing like Rebellion at all.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-01-18 09:46pm

Vympel wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote: Yes, and I honestly have no idea what any of you are talking about. Did you like Rebellion? I thought Rebellion was a great game. Instead of being fan whores over the graphics perhaps you should actually read the article and see what EAW has to offer.
Rebellion was a great game despite it's numerous glaring flaws- the graphics for a game of that time were pretty terrible, the user interface needed serious work, etc. But it was Star Wars and it allowed me to build a kick-ass Imperial Starfleet and crush the Rebellion, so I liked it.

This game will allow you to do the same.

Also, KS, the game is nothing like Rebellion at all.

I should have said it has similarities, in which point the developers also agree with me.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-01-18 09:47pm

Jim Raynor wrote:I'm downloading the demo right now. I hope it's not as bad as some people here are saying it is. This was supposed to be the Star Wars RTS that didn't suck.

So far only one has given an informed review and listed things he liked and did not like.

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2006-01-18 11:06pm

Well, I finally got this fucker downloaded, and I must say, its not horrible. Its not that good either, but it doesn't blow monumentally. It probably will bethe best SW RTS so far, but that isn't saying much.

Very quick summary:
Pros: Great graphics, interesting galactic conquest mode, the cinema-style camera option.
Cons: Dated interface, extremely common 'infantry stand in a line and shoot at other things' style of gameplay. Rather cruddy animation. Space combat is somewhat unbalanced (X-wing horde > all), ridiculous asteroid 'roadblocks'.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-19 12:17am

I just finished the tutorial- I haven't done the Demo Campaign yet, but my thoughts so far:

- The Good:

Graphics

I'm impressed by the infantry models, the vehicles, the terrain, all of that. It looks good. The space ship also look pretty decent for an RTS, though I would've preferred to see some of the visible individual gun turrets firing rather than the typical "turbolasers appearing from nowhere in particular" lazy route.

Sound

It sounds like Star Wars, and, in a rare thing for a Star Wars game, uses music from the prequels as well as the originals, which is a welcome change.

Interface

I like the interface in general, it's logical, easily understood and includes some innovations- particularly group selecting an entire crapload of your men organizes them all into easily selectable type-sub units in the menu.

Galactic Conquest

Works well, I look forward to trying it out in the full game.

- The Bad

Aspects of Space Combat

* I'm flying around Kashyyyk and I'm weaking my way through asteroid fields as if I'm playing a ground combat level on an RTS where your infantry can't walk through certain terrain. That's just shit. And those weird ion distortions or whatever? That's not Star Wars.

* Also in the "that's not Star Wars" category, the use of bombers to destroy components on enemy capital ships without the shields being dropped.

* Lot's of references to missile-armed ships in general among the capital ships I saw. Missiles aren't a big part of Star Wars space combat. I would've preferred more effort being put into different types of turbolasers.

Aspects of Ground Combat

After playing Act of War, there's really no excuse to have Stormtroopers and Rebel soldiers just standing there shooting at each other for several seconds until members of the respective squads start dying. Infantry die in seconds in Act of War, and I like it that way.

Aspects of Base Building

The pre-determined build points for base defences and structures like healing stations and repair points stinks of an attempt to control player tactics to prevent "turtling".

Rebel Trooper graphics

I don't know where the designers got the idea that the men on the Tantive IV in ANH constitute "Rebel troopers". I knew they were just shipboard guards- watching them run around on Kashyyyk with those clothes and helmets took me right out of the game, as did watching them run around on Ryloth in slightly differnet colours to accomodate the desert. Why couldn't they just use Endor soldiers for Kashyyyk, and a suitable desert equivalent for desert planets, etc?

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-01-19 12:22am

I really enjoyed the demo the combat was challenging and you have to have atleast some strategy when going against the enemy.

I am disappointed that at the strategic level the game seems extremely fast paced with a ship being built in 1 day and travel time being nearly instaneous. Atleast in Rebellion is took a realistic amount of time to construct a fleet and to move a fleet from one end of the galaxy to the other took a few days.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-19 12:24am

LongVin wrote: I am disappointed that at the strategic level the game seems extremely fast paced with a ship being built in 1 day and travel time being nearly instaneous. Atleast in Rebellion is took a realistic amount of time to construct a fleet and to move a fleet from one end of the galaxy to the other took a few days.

Actually the construction times in Rebellion, as well as the maintenance costs, were out of all proportion to what one would expect the manufacturing facilities of the Star Wars galaxy to be capable of, IMO. The travelling times in Rebellion were also too long, with months to cross the galaxy in certain ships.

Empire at War is much closer to "reality", but hey they're both games.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-01-19 12:28am

LongVin wrote:I really enjoyed the demo the combat was challenging and you have to have atleast some strategy when going against the enemy.

I am disappointed that at the strategic level the game seems extremely fast paced with a ship being built in 1 day and travel time being nearly instaneous. Atleast in Rebellion is took a realistic amount of time to construct a fleet and to move a fleet from one end of the galaxy to the other took a few days.

I heard rumors that the build time has been sped up for the demo. Though those are just rumors....

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-01-19 12:34am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
LongVin wrote:I really enjoyed the demo the combat was challenging and you have to have atleast some strategy when going against the enemy.

I am disappointed that at the strategic level the game seems extremely fast paced with a ship being built in 1 day and travel time being nearly instaneous. Atleast in Rebellion is took a realistic amount of time to construct a fleet and to move a fleet from one end of the galaxy to the other took a few days.
I heard rumors that the build time has been sped up for the demo. Though those are just rumors....

I hope so I seriously don't want to be playing MP completely wipe out an enemy fleet and less then 3 minutes later have to face his brand new fleet on the way to the next planet.

Instant Sunrise · Post by **Instant Sunrise** » 2006-01-19 02:32am

Why can you only build 5 units at a time in this?! Where I come from, 5 units at a time is a start.

I also found the unit balancing to be fairly odd, and too much micromanaging for my tastes.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2006-01-19 02:43am

After playing the demo, I think it's safe to say that, yes, the guys who made this definatly played Rebellion, there are some similiarities, but they fade out pretty fast. Few things I noticed right from the get-go.

Bad AI - Both in space and on the ground, units are pretty stupid, the Tatooine assault mission was a real pain in the ass, with enemy bikes zipping around everywhere harassing me. Ground combat appears to be little more than "find the safest way to blow up the generator. Now because of the nature of the game, this isn't so bad, but starting out in the middle of nowhere with a bunch of very clumsy units made the whole endeavour annoying.

In space I noticed that my X-wings would keep drawn away by fleeing TIEs and end up just sort of hanging around. Also, more Xwings doesn't appear to equate to destroying enemy fighter squadrons faster, you can simply engage more of them at a time.
The subsystems work pretty well, the Y-Wings are fairly lethal; you *could* totally disable a ship, but usually by that point it's out of hitpoints anyway. I don't quite understand how the shields work, as capital ship hulls seem to take damage before they are down, but I think it works well enough. With regards to capital ships, they're pretty weak, but it makes for a rather action filled fight, I must say.

The game was neat, but despite my love of star destroyers and everything starwar, the bad AI really hurt things.

However, this game has the modding potential to become the next incarnation of rebellion. I'd, of course, *like* better AI, and more prolonged starship engagements (right now they feel a tad fast).

The concept reminds me fondly of rebellion, but I'm not sold yet. A multiplayer demo would sure be keen.

Instant Sunrise · Post by **Instant Sunrise** » 2006-01-19 02:49am

I hated how you can only build defensive structures at certain points.It kind of negates the purpose of bas-building, because it means that the game has to hold your hand for that.

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2006-01-19 03:27am

Hmm, well, things I really enjoyed:

-the Imperial officer who is your superior during the tutorial, malicious, brooding, and reminds me of classic power hungry Imperials

-very nice interface; easy to use and understand, no more clickity click click of Rebellion

-a variety of campaign modes/maps

-space combat is pretty niffty, but lame with the whole asteroid walls and the nebula gas, would've been so much better with just a little 3-d

Things that I did not like:

-ground combat; boring and redundant and the ground map seems rather simlistic, but I'm holding it to just the demo...for now

-couldn't they have tried to make ground combat a little more "realistic?" I'm not asking much, just something different from the squads of troops standing there and shooting at each other

Overall, it has potential and I did enjoy it, but I really seriouslly hope that the final product is dramatically different and better than the demo, although I'm not so sure about that. I would've rather that the build time was a little slower, as well as the interplanetary travel, just to bring in some strategic level planning.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-01-19 03:38am

Sooo. Space was like ST: Armada, and ground was like a watered down Age of Empires?

Doesn't seem too appealing to me. I may peek at the demo, but what was said makes this thing sound like a stinker compared to Total Annhiliation or DoW...

Wide open fields with mostly show infantry? No thanks.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-19 04:35am

Nephtys wrote:Sooo. Space was like ST: Armada, and ground was like a watered down Age of Empires?

No way. See, you build your units on the galactic map, once you get down to tactical, you're not building units anymore- unless you're the defender of the planet, in which case you get to build units ... I think. That would explain where all those AT-STs and Stormtroopers were coming from.

Yeah, this is no cool-RTS killer, IMO. Can't wait for Supreme Commander.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-01-19 07:10am

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I liked both the space combat and the Rebel troops. The glorified 2D space combat with blocking asteroids seems a tad on the silly side, but no more silly than most RTS contrivances we take for granted (base-building, unit "training," stand-and-shoot-each-other, etc).

As for the Rebel troops:

I'd rather they used material from the movies than make stuff up. Not that speculation is bad, but when you have material staring you in the face and instead you go off and make something completely retarded... *coughstarwarsgalaxiescough*
I imagine the mentioned Endor commando design is probably being used for a higher-tech/special Rebel unit type.
Their actual appearance varies by environment. The "Tantive IV" design is only seen in temperate environs. One can only assume the Echo Base design is used in arctic terrain, and so on.
Said "Tantive IV" design also happened to be the uniforms worn by the soldiers on Yavin 4 in ANH... an arboreal planet, like Kashyyk.

Overall, I rather like the game so far. Nothing jaw-droppingly awesome, but I think I might just pick this one up. I do enjoy the strategic element immensely, even if it isn't nearly as intricate as Rebellion. The EU planets (including a few from KotOR!) were a great touch too, though I was sad to not see a few.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2006-01-19 08:21am

Okay, unfortunatly I havn't been able to download the demo yet. But from what I'm reading, nothing is suprising, just another bog standard RTS.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-19 08:46am

Ace Pace wrote:Okay, unfortunatly I havn't been able to download the demo yet. But from what I'm reading, nothing is suprising, just another bog standard RTS.

It's not bog standard by any means, it's actually quite innovative in several ways, but I don't know if that's a good thing. I've really come to like Act of War, and EaW doesn't compare favorably at this point, though it's not a bad game.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2006-01-19 08:51am

Vympel wrote:
It's not bog standard by any means, it's actually quite innovative in several ways, but I don't know if that's a good thing. I've really come to like Act of War, and EaW doesn't compare favorably at this point, though it's not a bad game.

My main question is now... how much is the ground phase like Age of Empire 3(possibly the current pinnacle of normal RTS games), and what is the space combat like? Does anyone have screenshots?

I wish I had this PC working better

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-01-19 09:10am

Ace Pace wrote:My main question is now... how much is the ground phase like Age of Empire 3(possibly the current pinnacle of normal RTS games), and what is the space combat like? Does anyone have screenshots?

I wish I had this PC working better

Ground combat feels like a cross between Ground Control 2 and C&C: Generals. The only similarity with AoEIII is the strategic/tactical integration, though EaW's is more intricate, as fleet positioning, makeup, and troop complement matter as opposed to a simple "Home city" system.

Space combat is really pretty similar, just different artwork on top of the code and slightly different pacing.

Ypoknons · Post by **Ypoknons** » 2006-01-19 11:44am

Well if it's a good modding platform I'm not going to complain.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-01-19 02:27pm

Is there there a DL site doesn't take over an day and doesn't need membership to be used (and is legal of course)

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-01-19 02:55pm

skyman8081 wrote:Why can you only build 5 units at a time in this?! Where I come from, 5 units at a time is a start.

I also found the unit balancing to be fairly odd, and too much micromanaging for my tastes.

You can build five units at a time from each planet you own. So Planet A is building five and Planet B is building another five.