POWs in Star Wars

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-01-22 02:40am

What were the polices towards prisoners held by various factions at various times? For instance, what happened to the non-Leia rebels captured on the T4? They are obviously not protected by any treaty, since they're terrorists and Vader causually killed one.

Further, what happened post-Endor when large areas of space were trading hands? Just at Endor itself, the rebels would have captured thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of Imperial personell in the bunker, the 'legion', the escape pods and TIEs. What happened to them? I doubt they were repatriated, but I hear that some Imperial prisoners joined the rebels. What happened to the rest?

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-01-22 02:46am

For Rebel Prisoners I can see 1 of 3 happening or a combination of the three:

1. They are tortured/interogated for information
2. They are killed
3. They are put in Prison camps

The treatment is probably based on who the commanding officer is and the mood he is in. They may take prisoners simply for the fact they can exchange them later for Imperial prisoners. They also might just take prisoners just so the Rebels dont instantly kill any Imperials captured.

For Imperial Prisoners

1. They are interogated and possibly tortured.
2. They are put in hidden prison camps
3. They are stripped down of weapons and equipment and released
4. Given the option to change sides

Probably once again at the discretion of the commanding officer based on the mission objectives and current rebel positions. I can see both two and three happening often with 3 more likely on most hit and run missions.

I figure the rebels would have some prison camps hidden away someplace it wouldn't be completely impossible with so many planets to hide on.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-01-22 02:49am

I know little of the Imperial policy, other than that there were some prison camps for captured Rebels, and that others were executed. However, it is noted in several sources that very, very few Imperials were ever executed by the Rebellion and New Republic, and that many of them defected upon their capture, even more so after Endor.

Edit: And as for Endor, I would imagine that most Imperial personnel save the ones captured after Han's ruse were killed by the generator's explosion.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-01-22 02:52am

This seems unlikely. The rebels on T4 obviously didn't expect to get gunned down out of hand. I guess they could be detained indefinately without trial. I wonder if they track down their families? A map of rebel prisoners, showing their planets of origin, would be an interesting tool for Imperial Intelligence.

The idea of the rebels having substantial prison camps pre-Endor is faintly absurd, since they can't find a safe place for their high command. Only a small number could be detained on their ships, and releasing them (when they're just going to present themselves to the nearest Imperial garrison, get reequipped and rejoin their units) is a silly idea.

It's interesting that you think the rebels, who lack the means to detain prisoners, are LESS likely to kill their prisoners. The Imperials can throw prisoners into camps or gulags or work parties all over the galaxy, but the rebels either kill them or take them with them. I'm certain they interrogate officers, but what about stormies? Or local Imperial forces?

EDIT - Ire, are you assuming most of the 'legion' was in or very near the bunker? At least the troops seen in ROTJ would have survived, being further away than Han, but certainly everyone in or very close to the bunker would've been killed. What of the pilots and DS2/Executor crew?

EDIT2- Dammit. How trustworthy are the 'no executions' and 'lots of defections' sources? I find it ridiculous that even several thousand Imperial personell would be simply inducted into the rebellion. I wonder if, post-NJO, there were many counter-defections, as it became clear the GFFE or whatever didn't really stand for anything?

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-01-22 02:58am

But massive executions aren't going to endear anyone to the rebel cause. They probably have very small scale camps on out of the way worlds. Or simple house detention type things.

I doubt though the rebels get many prisoners in the first place jsut basing it on the type of missions they conduct against the Empire.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-01-22 03:01am

Well, I certainly agree. Pre-ANH I doubt the rebels took any prisoners, since they had few victories and I assume few major battles. However, post-Endor they would have had potentially many thousands of prisoners.

Maybe they left them there to die in the Endor Halocaust?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-01-22 03:06am

It's interesting that you think the rebels, who lack the means to detain prisoners, are LESS likely to kill their prisoners. The Imperials can throw prisoners into camps or gulags or work parties all over the galaxy, but the rebels either kill them or take them with them. I'm certain they interrogate officers, but what about stormies? Or local Imperial forces?

Since they can't and didn't execute them, and relatively few would have defected, I can only assume they let the troopers go, although they may have detained higher-ups, interrogating them and such. It doesn't make military sense, but from a propaganda point of view (which they heavily depend on, getting systems to rally behind them and all) it works. If word that they ordered a squad of captured troopers executed, support for the rebellion might fade in places. And as you say, that can't hold them all.

EDIT - Ire, are you assuming most of the 'legion' was in or very near the bunker? At least the troops seen in ROTJ would have survived, being further away than Han, but certainly everyone in or very close to the bunker would've been killed. What of the pilots and DS2/Executor crew?

I am. I have seen no evidence to indicate there was any signifcant presence outside the bunker/shield complex, all of which would have been annihiliated. The survivors of the skirmish would have survived, but no one else on the ground. However, there were probably a lot of packed escape pods in orbit (they may even be mentioned in Truce at Bakura, IIRC.)

EDIT2- Dammit. How trustworthy are the 'no executions' and 'lots of defections' sources? I find it ridiculous that even several thousand Imperial personell would be simply inducted into the rebellion. I wonder if, post-NJO, there were many counter-defections, as it became clear the GFFE or whatever didn't really stand for anything?

The execution one is in relation to superweaon designer Bevel Leminsk, who is noted in several essential guides, as well as Darksaber and at least one NJO book as having been one of the very few Imperials put to death. As for the defections, I have no doubt they were few for most of the civil war. However, after Endor and the fall of the core worlds, there may have been vast defections, since most Imperials weren't zealots, but rather pragmatists, similar to the make up of the Nazi war machine.

I wonder if, post-NJO, there were many counter-defections, as it became clear the GFFE or whatever didn't really stand for anything?

By that point, the galactic climate was so different, the point was moot. Neither the Empire nor the Republic existed in their old forms.

Maybe they left them there to die in the Endor Halocaust?

Probably not. I would imagine that in they were ferried up before the debris began to fall on Wicket's neighborhood, after the party. The Imps probably made out better than the Ewoks.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-01-22 07:43am

as said the rebels probably took little to no prisoner pre-Endor as most of their operations would have been hit and run style.

I dout Alliance even tried to defend a world against a full imperial invasion or heaven forbid invade an imperial world.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-01-22 08:59am

The EU shows the empire experimented on captured rebels and prisoners that were of no other use to them.

Mainly biological weapons research, as well as cyborg-assassin experiments.

Plus, there's always the spice mines of kessel and the like.

Stygian · Post by **Stygian** » 2006-01-22 01:37pm

Didn't threepio say something along the lines of "We'll be sent to the spice mines of Kessel." Im assuming all POWs captured by the Imps would be used for forced slave labor.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-01-22 02:36pm

Wasn't Kyp Durron in the spice mines due to his parents being rebels, suggesting that they also function as something of a gulag.

Deathstalker · Post by **Deathstalker** » 2006-01-22 02:39pm

WEG mentions "prison" planets used by Rebels for Imperials who are captured. Imps are dropped off with a few supplies and have to fend for themselves.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-01-22 04:42pm

Yeah, the WEG "safe worlds" for prisoners concept sounds interesting and also sound exactly like what the Rebels would do.

Rebels are tortured if it is suspected they have information. Most will be executed on site.

AK_Jedi · Post by **AK_Jedi** » 2006-01-22 06:10pm

There are a large number of EU sources that describe Imperial prison facilities where rebel prisoners and others are tortured to the point of death.

Darth Vader said to tell the senate that the T4 was destroyed with all hands. That probably means executions or tortured to death.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2006-01-22 06:59pm

Darth Vader said to tell the senate that the T4 was destroyed with all hands. That probably means executions or tortured to death.

Or simple detainment and interrogation/torture not to death. Why assume the worst simply because he lies to the Senate. Having them officially dead allows the Empire to hold them indefinately without any problems from a nosey Senate. It doesn't automatically mean "execution or torture to death."

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-01-22 07:15pm

In tie fighter it shows a hidden Rebel Prison colony. Now they would not have to hold all detainees in the same location

Doctor Doom · Post by **Doctor Doom** » 2006-01-22 07:47pm

The Original Nex wrote:
Darth Vader said to tell the senate that the T4 was destroyed with all hands. That probably means executions or tortured to death.
Or simple detainment and interrogation/torture not to death. Why assume the worst simply because he lies to the Senate. Having them officially dead allows the Empire to hold them indefinately without any problems from a nosey Senate. It doesn't automatically mean "execution or torture to death."

Considering the Tantive IV was full of Rebels suspected of knowing something about the Death Star, it is very likely that they would be tortured to death or executed in the name of secrecy.

Sonnenburg · Post by **Sonnenburg** » 2006-01-22 07:59pm

Doctor Doom wrote:Considering the Tantive IV was full of Rebels suspected of knowing something about the Death Star, it is very likely that they would be tortured to death or executed in the name of secrecy.

Executed, sure, but torture to death just seems bad for business. If the Empire routinely tortured its prisoners to death, no rebel in his right mind wouldn't stop fighting unless they were unconscious; that would mean the Empire would have to routinely go into situations with weapons on stun because the defenders would never surrender, making the "necessary" act of torturing for information that much more difficult because of the unnecessary act of torturing to death.

It also strikes me as one of those things that's just evil for the sake of being evil.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2006-01-22 10:32pm

Let's see, things that Rebels and Rebel affiliated groups(or supposedly rogue or former Rebel groups, like this somehow absolves the Rebel Alliance of responsibility) have done:

Contaminated critical medical supplies so that anyone receiving serious medical treatment will suffer a fatal reaction(Rogue Squadron).

Unleashed criminals unchecked on the civilian populace of Imperial held worlds(Wedge's Gamble).

Advocated the shooting of random civilians as a terror tactic(Bacta War).

Failed to attempt to recover possible survivors from a disabled Imperial ship headed towards certain destruction(Bacta War).

Kidnapped child actor with intent to kill(Wraith Squadron).

Forgive me if I don't think this track record speaks well of their likely treatment of their enemies.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-01-23 05:07am

consequences wrote: Contaminated critical medical supplies so that anyone receiving serious medical treatment will suffer a fatal reaction(Rogue Squadron).

Vratix rebels, no way affilated with rebel alliance in any way shape or form until Bacta War.

Unleashed criminals unchecked on the civilian populace of Imperial held worlds(Wedge's Gamble).

One operation only and measure were taken to make sure they didn;t just shoot radnom civilians

Advocated the shooting of random civilians as a terror tactic(Bacta War).

From an Indepedant Rebel who was chucked out of the Alliance because she was crazy. The Actual RA operative (Iella) was disgusted.

Failed to attempt to recover possible survivors from a disabled Imperial ship headed towards certain destruction(Bacta War).

How the fuck were they supposed to do that? they had a couple of dozen fighters and freighters that were used to do there stuff. They recovered escape pods, thats all they could manage.

Kidnapped child actor with intent to kill(Wraith Squadron).

Rebels who were chucked out of the Alliance for being too radical.

Forgive me if I don't think this track record speaks well of their likely treatment of their enemies.

None of the above has anything to do with the treatment of prisoners what so ever. Nor are they indicative of the RA's typical behaviour.

JediMaster415 · Post by **JediMaster415** » 2006-01-23 05:12am

consequences wrote:Let's see, things that Rebels and Rebel affiliated groups(or supposedly rogue or former Rebel groups, like this somehow absolves the Rebel Alliance of responsibility) have done:

Contaminated critical medical supplies so that anyone receiving serious medical treatment will suffer a fatal reaction(Rogue Squadron).

That was the Ashern rebels who had nothing to do with the Rebel Alliance until years later.

Unleashed criminals unchecked on the civilian populace of Imperial held worlds(Wedge's Gamble).

This, I can’t argue with though everyone involved knew it was a bad idea just waiting to explode. However there were measures taken and those criminals were overstepped the rules were gunned down (Thyne) or imprisoned.

Advocated the shooting of random civilians as a terror tactic(Bacta War).

Elscol was the only person who advocated it. Iella and everyone else tried to limit their targets to people in Isard’s employ.

Failed to attempt to recover possible survivors from a disabled Imperial ship headed towards certain destruction(Bacta War).

I can’t remember where this was. Could you give me the chapters or a general description of the situation.

Kidnapped child actor with intent to kill(Wraith Squadron).

I believe that was an extremist group who were ousted from the Alliance because they were willing to go that far.

EDIT: Damn, Crazedwraith beat me to it.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-01-23 05:17am

JediMaster415 wrote:
Failed to attempt to recover possible survivors from a disabled Imperial ship headed towards certain destruction(Bacta War).
I can’t remember where this was. Could you give me the chapters or a general description of the situation.

He's taking about the Corruptor. It was left to drift into the remains Alderaan and be chewed up by asteriods. Wedge made it quite clear there was nothing he could to do save it.

EDIT: Damn, Crazedwraith beat me to it.

muahahaha

JediMaster415 · Post by **JediMaster415** » 2006-01-23 05:25am

Crazedwraith wrote: He's taking about the Corruptor. It was left to drift into the remains Alderaan and be chewed up by asteriods. Wedge made it quite clear there was nothing he could to do save it.

Ah, that. Okay, now I remember. Thanks.

They had no tractor beams to pull it back and the runs to the closest planets would be too far (Coruscant) or not very helpful (Corellia).

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2006-01-23 11:14am

I have some doubts about the idea of the Rebels recruiting captured Imperials into their ranks. First of all, the moment the Empire finds out the Rebels have this policy, they'll start planting agents in the Rebellion. The Rebel leadership may be idealists, but they aren't so stupid or blind that they'd blithely give the Empire that big an opening. Second, this policy would shred unit cohesion. I don't think the rank-and-file are just going to smile and accept these defectors as comrades, letting them watch their backs in a fight.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-01-23 12:02pm

CDiehl wrote:I have some doubts about the idea of the Rebels recruiting captured Imperials into their ranks. First of all, the moment the Empire finds out the Rebels have this policy, they'll start planting agents in the Rebellion. The Rebel leadership may be idealists, but they aren't so stupid or blind that they'd blithely give the Empire that big an opening. Second, this policy would shred unit cohesion. I don't think the rank-and-file are just going to smile and accept these defectors as comrades, letting them watch their backs in a fight.

I wouldn't imagine that this would be all that common pre-ROTJ, no (although willing defectorions did occur, like Crix Madine for example.) However, post ROTJ, as the movement grew and they actually began to take planets for good, the Rebels/Republic would have to take Imperials willing to work for them.