The battle of the brains!

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

I have read very few SW books. The impression I get from people here on this character Admiral Dalaa is that she holds power only because friends put her there.

I figure once it was discovered that they were in the ST universe for good and she made a couple of horrible tactical errors (sounds like she does this on a regular basis), she would be removed from 'power' and someone else would be put in charge.


I know the idea is supposed to be SW 'village idiot' vs. ST village idiot but it just doesn't sound like she'd remain in power.

Actually it's more "ST village idiot" vs. "ST's Brightest commander" (Jellico used mines and knowledge of the environment to outmaneuver the Cardies and prevented a possible war breaking out). Then again, most of the main characters of ST (most, remember) have a few nice tricks up their sleeve and are generally competent.

[PayBack]

Daala could not take over the Star Trek galaxy, for one simple reason: Force Projection, pacification, and fuel. With only 3 star destroyers, there is no way she could keep order in her new empire, and after a couply of DBZ operations to pacify the populace, I imagine she'd quickly run out of Tibanna gas. If she has only 3, she might be able to destroy every ship in the galaxy, but she could not control anything past her arm's length.

That's why the first thing she should do would be to ally with one of the many expansionist races and use them to occupy and police planets once they've been defeated.. eventually the Galaxy would have her at the top backed by her 3 ISD's (with security provided by Stormtroopers) and this other race under her... though thinking about it.. two races, with half the Galaxy each.. that way neither race would tell her to piss off, for fear of her backing the one that didn't.

The concern then would be whether Tibanna gas and Hypermatter are unique to the SW galaxy.

[Connor MacLeod]

Show me one example of Dalaa doing anything aside from spreading her legs.

You've got to admit, she's got to be a fantastic, no, an epic lay. She got four Imperators damn it. The galaxy's highest paid working girl!

either that or Grand Moff Tarkin hasn't had any in a long time.

If you've seen pictures of TArkin's wife, you'd understand.

[Connor MacLeod]

*snip broad fleet description*

It might be worth pointing out that not all of us who have some qualms with Curtis' interpretation of fleet classification are actually fanboys you know. At least I prefer not to think of myself as one, I dunno about you.

[ngc7293]

Actually it's more "ST village idiot" vs. "ST's Brightest commander" (Jellico used mines and knowledge of the environment to outmaneuver the Cardies and prevented a possible war breaking out). Then again, most of the main characters of ST (most, remember) have a few nice tricks up their sleeve and are generally competent.

Ok, supposing that Jellico is ST's best tactician and strategist, it is still a question of how long would Dalaa last? If no one has to fear the Moffs and Admirals, She would quickly be replace, then it would be an issue of Jellico facing someone better from the SW universe.

Unless this Dalaa being such an idiot, also had a staff that was equally stupid.

[Lord Revan]

You've got to admit, she's got to be a fantastic, no, an epic lay. She got four Imperators damn it. The galaxy's highest paid working girl!

either that or Grand Moff Tarkin hasn't had any in a long time.

If you've seen pictures of TArkin's wife, you'd understand.

oh I see, though I haven't seen any pics of Tarkin's family (and very few pics of the man himself outside ROTS and ANH)

[Surlethe]

This is a good point; I had assumed there would be technicians who had a good idea of how to do so aboard the ISD. Do you know how large an ISD's technical complement is?

It might be large, it might be small, it doesn't matter. They have absolutely no infrastructure and no support to build it. Besides, I mimagine the tech/engineering complement is quite competent, but I'd doubt that they could build an oil rig, oil refinery, munitions plant, etc. and they have the benefit of having the right infrastructure and materials for it.

Point, then.

I have no idea; it was conjecture on my part. The idea was it might be possible to hook up phasers to the ISD power trunk; but again, I have no idea how feasible that is.

Fair enough. Phasers seem to be able to accept power sources of alien, Federation, or even jury-rigged origin quite easily. Still, it's irrelevent.

If they can, then there's no need to look for Tibanna, because they would be able to walk all over Federation fleets until the reactors ran out of fuel. Of course, this doesn't negate your point that the reactors will eventually run out of fuel, so you're right: in the long run, it's irrelevant.

Careful; I never claimed 27,000 would be enough for the whole galaxy. If I were Dalaa, and stuck in ST-galaxy with three ISDs, I would conserve fuel and ammunition, and make some surgical strikes on Federation shipyards to cripple some and take over others. She can use the ISDs as last-resort ships, and once they've demonstrated firepower once or twice, I'm pretty sure their mere presence would inspire terror.

Oh, they wouldn't have to make surgical strikes. They could destroy every single ship from flagship to fighter in the entire quadrant. But they could never, never control the quadrant. With only 3 ships, she could never be in enough places at once to pacify any rebellious planets, especially as her supportless ships run quickly out of fuel in a very hypermatter-deficient galaxy as she BDZes dozens of planets out of frustration.

I know she wouldn't be able to control it with three supportless ships; I'm saying she should harness Federation production capacity in order to create a fleet she can use to control the sector; then, instead of three ships, they have half a thousand ships, which is a sizeable fleet; with the ISDs as backup, they should be able to maintain control of the sector, ceteris paribus.

Also, I'd think that, trapped in a galaxy far, far away, without support or any hope of seeing friends or family again, and under a fucking retarded or insane slut-Admiral, many of her people would quickly mutiny against her, and assuming she can put these rebellions down too, who will replace them?

This is also a valid point.

Finally, I sincerely doubt that if faced with Daala's super-ships, the Federation would lay down and die. While they aren't the rabidly brain-washed Orwellian psychos that some people seem to think, the Federation people are clearly indoctrinated to be almost-religious adherents and supporters of their government, call it obstinance, idiocy or courage, they refuse to submit in the face of impossible odds. The Borg incursions, the ludicrously stacked Dominion War, V'Ger, and every single episode wherein their cleverness or humanity defeat seemingly insurmountable odds and they warp away once again in their horrifically dangerous quest to galavant through the galaxy. This mind-set of determination could even be said to have been reinforced by their encounters with the Borg, Dominion and others. These are not people who will go willingly. These people make it so.

Then, of course, Daala's superior firepower will prevail while she still has fuel and ammunition.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Daala could not take over the Star Trek galaxy, for one simple reason: Force Projection, pacification, and fuel. With only 3 star destroyers, there is no way she could keep order in her new empire, and after a couply of DBZ operations to pacify the populace, I imagine she'd quickly run out of Tibanna gas. If she has only 3, she might be able to destroy every ship in the galaxy, but she could not control anything past her arm's length.

That's why the first thing she should do would be to ally with one of the many expansionist races and use them to occupy and police planets once they've been defeated.. eventually the Galaxy would have her at the top backed by her 3 ISD's (with security provided by Stormtroopers) and this other race under her... though thinking about it.. two races, with half the Galaxy each.. that way neither race would tell her to piss off, for fear of her backing the one that didn't.

The concern then would be whether Tibanna gas and Hypermatter are unique to the SW galaxy.

She's just not smart enough to do anything like that. That's all. She's a retard.

[FOG3]

I have no idea; it was conjecture on my part. The idea was it might be possible to hook up phasers to the ISD power trunk; but again, I have no idea how feasible that is.

The power supply they're normally hooked up to is what in the TW range? So we're basically going from e12J (kT) to e18J (GT). So we're kind of talking about the equivalent of retrofiting and MBTs drive system so it can race around at stupid speeds well in excess of Mach 1. That's kind of a different problem then changing it around with a engine within a order of magnitude. Equipping a Abrams with a 15,000 HP engine isn't the same problem as equiping it with a 1,500,000,000 HP engine. Of course, this would be the point at which you point out they don't need them to be Acclamator-class guns, or true Imperial class firepower.

The implication however was that you were going to reverse engineer a shipyard to be putting out Imperial grade ships, in under a year without Imperial fuel resources, etc. If I dropped an engineer into the year 1000 AD, with no knowledge of where to find oil, do you think it reasonable to expect him to start manufacturing automobiles within even a decade?

[Elheru Aran]

either that or Grand Moff Tarkin hasn't had any in a long time.

If you've seen pictures of TArkin's wife, you'd understand.

oh I see, though I haven't seen any pics of Tarkin's family (and very few pics of the man himself outside ROTS and ANH)

Tarkin does have a niece, the daughter of his brother, who was killed at Zonoma Sekot, IIRC; however, she's a very minor character. Lady Tarkin is better known from a series of comics where Princess Leia, acting undercover, served as her maid for some time; she's the classic dominant harridan.

[Surlethe]

I have no idea; it was conjecture on my part. The idea was it might be possible to hook up phasers to the ISD power trunk; but again, I have no idea how feasible that is.

The power supply they're normally hooked up to is what in the TW range? So we're basically going from e12J (kT) to e18J (GT). So we're kind of talking about the equivalent of retrofiting and MBTs drive system so it can race around at stupid speeds well in excess of Mach 1. That's kind of a different problem then changing it around with a engine within a order of magnitude. Equipping a Abrams with a 15,000 HP engine isn't the same problem as equiping it with a 1,500,000,000 HP engine. Of course, this would be the point at which you point out they don't need them to be Acclamator-class guns, or true Imperial class firepower.

Right; they just need to be able to handle maybe a magnitude more energy than usual, and that alone would give the ISDs an advantage in firepower, as well as seriously conserving fuel. Of course -- again -- I don't know how feasible modifying a phaser array to hook up to an ISD's power supply is.

The implication however was that you were going to reverse engineer a shipyard to be putting out Imperial grade ships, in under a year without Imperial fuel resources, etc. If I dropped an engineer into the year 1000 AD, with no knowledge of where to find oil, do you think it reasonable to expect him to start manufacturing automobiles within even a decade?

I didn't mean to make that implication; I was thinking Federation+ grade ships, not actually Imperial-grade ships and weapons. Expecting them to manufacture ships capable of competing with ISDs is ridiculous.

[Darth Wong]

Even Daala isn't stupid enough to try and control an entire galaxy with just 3 ships, or to try and start a satellite Imperial civilization with a few tens of thousands of people who are overwhelmingly male.

She would need some sort of infrastructural base and allies, so I figure she'd try to cut a deal with the Federation by negotiating a trade of technology and protection services for control of a colony outpost which she could use to build a power base.

Yes, I know, you can say she's a retard and wouldn't think of this, but we're not talking about genius military strategy here; we're talking about politics and people, and I see no reason to believe Daala doesn't understand such things.

[NecronLord]

I see no reason to believe Daala doesn't understand such things.

If anything she's particularly fine at doing so. In *shudder* Darksaber, she backstabs a pile of warlords and builds quite the coalition.

[PayBack]

Even Daala isn't stupid enough to try and control an entire galaxy with just 3 ships, or to try and start a satellite Imperial civilization with a few tens of thousands of people who are overwhelmingly male.

She would need some sort of infrastructural base and allies, so I figure she'd try to cut a deal with the Federation by negotiating a trade of technology and protection services for control of a colony outpost which she could use to build a power base.

Yes, I know, you can say she's a retard and wouldn't think of this, but we're not talking about genius military strategy here; we're talking about politics and people, and I see no reason to believe Daala doesn't understand such things.

Almost exactly what I said, though I would have thought the Feds would be the last group she'd deal with... and trading technology would weaken her position over time. Surely she'd ally with an expansionist race and trade the use of her military muscle for the resources she needs? There's very little some races wouldn't give in exchange for guaranteed wins in every battle.

[Connor MacLeod]

Daala's not bad when it comes to the non-tactical side of things. At least as long as it involves killing off people who cause her trouble. Maw installation may be another small example of that. I think her problems come when she actaulyl tries to play tactician and military commander in an actual military situation - for whatever reason, she's got a shitty record in battles.