Bizarre body mentality in Star Wars.

[Ryushikaze]

I was thinking the other day about a rather bizarre fact from the PT. Padme did not know she had twins, but the medical droid analyzed it instantly.

Meaning she did not even once ultrasound or otherwise check on the condition of her child in such a way that would reveal her having of twins.

Granted, she was attempting to keep her pregnancy secret so as to not cause a scandal by the revelation of her secret marriage to a jedi, but even then, it could not be too terribly difficult to acquire some sort of scanning device without attracting undue notice.

Granted, it's not just her. There seems to be other instances of people acting wierd in regards to their body all over the movies and EU, including multiple jedi and other characters who, upon losing a limb, replace it with a mechanical instead of cloning a new one, despite the capability of cloning on both a massive and a specific scale. In the case of a few of them it was out of expediency or lack of funds/materials (such as Ani's arm and Luke's hand) that it was replaced with a cybernetic, but one of them, Tenel Ka, had perfect access to such an expediency (being the heir to a non republic sectorwide monarchy, so she definitely could've afforded it), yet at no point after the accident until she decided to not replace the limb was the option of cloning it even considered, even though it was mentioned that they arm could have been successfully reattached had it survived the accident, which makes me really wonder what her reason for not considering a cloned arm was, especially since even when I first read the novel so many years ago, I immediately thought of replacing it with a cloned specimen. Granted, this was KJA, but under SOD, there has to be an in universe reason why she didn't think about it.

It also seems that the cybernetics seem to be done out of necessity, rather than simply because one wants to, and those, like Lobot, that do have cybernetic surgery done on their own initiative, are treated as being somehow fringe and strange. I recall Lobot mentioning something like this in one of the books, but it's been awhile, so if I am mistaken, bear with me.

What all this seems to be pointing to is a general focus among the galaxy of the sacrality of the body, in which even non invasive procedures such as ultrasounds are possibly taboo, and in which it is considered better to replace a limb with an artificial replacement than an exact one (in the event that the original arm cannot be recovered), but in which such a procedure should only be done as necessity, not because it was desired. This is a bizarre form of body sanctity, in which the body is sacred, but cloned organs are somehow taboo.

Taking it a step further (and into the Vs debate), it would definitely be an excellent explanation for why transporters weren't developed/ Aren't used in the SW galaxy.

What are your thoughts on all this?

[Elheru Aran]

It's not so much the taboo angle as functionality, IMO. Even today hand transplants are difficult; while I'm sure it's quite possible in SW, cost is a big issue. Another is the potential scarcity of cloning technology; replacing organs via cloning is noted to be a black-market activity in a few books, IIRC, which obviously means it's illegal.

Essentially-- I don't see a huge practical problem with getting a mechanical arm that's almost as good as a regular arm, which has extra strength and durability, and can take more punishment, over a cloned arm, which may not work perfectly, and will cost a shit-ton of money...

[Noble Ire]

I was thinking the other day about a rather bizarre fact from the PT. Padme did not know she had twins, but the medical droid analyzed it instantly.

Meaning she did not even once ultrasound or otherwise check on the condition of her child in such a way that would reveal her having of twins.

Granted, she was attempting to keep her pregnancy secret so as to not cause a scandal by the revelation of her secret marriage to a jedi, but even then, it could not be too terribly difficult to acquire some sort of scanning device without attracting undue notice.

Actually, I believe one of the CW books/comics notes both she and Anakin wanted the child/ren to be a suprise in terms of gender, and thus may not have had it checked on at all (couples in real life do that as well, although perhaps not to that extent.)

Though pragmatism and functionality may be a possibility for the rest, I do think it is not impossible that Humans of the SW galaxy regard their bodies in a light unusual in contemporary terms. After all, there are other small deviations in their general mind-set and culture, like a tendancy towards more Spartan accomadations, and the infamous "no handrails" thing.

[weemadando]

As for the Padme thing - she might have requested not to hear about her child, so as to have a "surprise" when its born. Its fairly common today, with parents-to-be only asking for details if something is wrong with the child so that treatment can be obtained.

[An Ancient]

I think mechanical's probably simply cost less in most cases, and, as has been mentioned, they are better in many ways than organic limbs, and can be made to look just like them, so if circumstances force you to choose, and the cheaper option is kinda lika an upgrade, why not go for it?

[Count Dooku]

I think mechanical's probably simply cost less in most cases, and, as has been mentioned, they are better in many ways than organic limbs, and can be made to look just like them, so if circumstances force you to choose, and the cheaper option is kinda lika an upgrade, why not go for it?

I'm with you on this one. But when it comes down to it, I'd rather not loose any limbs at all .

[Jawawithagun]

I was thinking the other day about a rather bizarre fact from the PT. Padme did not know she had twins, but the medical droid analyzed it instantly.

Meaning she did not even once ultrasound or otherwise check on the condition of her child in such a way that would reveal her having of twins.

Or it might just be a case of "let the droid worry about the details I don't need to bother with"

[Spetulhu]

With so many medical droids around it could be hard to find a surgeon that agrees to try attaching a cloned limb. It is certainly major surgery to get all bones, muscles, nerves and bloodvessels to work. You risk death in the operation, perhaps standard MDs don't allow this?

[Knife]

Robotic replacements over cloned ones make a certain amout of sense, time wise. You can have the major pieces of a mechanical arm/leg/replacement sitting around a shelf, ready to go. While a clone replacement would need to be grown (probably with your DNA to simplify the rejection bit) and would only be available after however long it took to grow it after your accidnet.

A robotic arm could be taken off the shelf, modified a bit if necessary (taking time though) and tossed onto your stump. Notice in RotS, Anakin is wheeled into the medical chamber of Palpatines, and pretty much instantly medical droids are slapping on replacements. He still has his burns and other wounds from his battle on Mustafar, when their attaching the limbs.

Robotic replacement is ready to go when you need it. Clone replacement (if they use it in SW) needs to be grown after your accident. I got to figre most people would take the quicker resolution, especially when they can make a robotic replacement that looks organic.

[FOG3]

one of them, Tenel Ka, had perfect access to such an expediency (being the heir to a non republic sectorwide monarchy, so she definitely could've afforded it), yet at no point after the accident until she decided to not replace the limb was the option of cloning it even considered, even though it was mentioned that they arm could have been successfully reattached had it survived the accident, which makes me really wonder what her reason for not considering a cloned arm was, especially since even when I first read the novel so many years ago, I immediately thought of replacing it with a cloned specimen. Granted, this was KJA, but under SOD, there has to be an in universe reason why she didn't think about it.

This is a women who under SoD, apparently was completely unwilling to allow them to install a mechanical arm despite they were already setup and everything to do so. We're talking someone so stubborn they prefer to have to learn to operate with one arm instead of having anything to do with replacement of the lost limb. It seems like they made it so she took it as a kind of reminder to be more careful, because she lost it due to not properly constructing her lightsaber resulting in a major malfunction. Plus apparently Jedi like Jacen don't get a clue through the Force when their opponents blade isn't going to provide any resistance. Gee Luke is it to much trouble to make sure they built it right?

[Elheru Aran]

A note: they use cloned organs for Clonetroopers because they can be grown en masse and kept on ice, so to speak, ready to slap into the trooper to replace injured/damaged organs and limbs. They don't need to worry about genetic complications, but there *is* a time issue; however, the fact that Clonetroopers are military, ergo will be suffering casualties, means that it's easy to plan ahead with them. Not so simple with the rest of the galaxy, except perhaps on Khomm and on other planets where cloning is a common enough procedure-- for example, I wouldn't be surprised if Kaminoans regularly keep cloned organs on hand.

[Sonnenburg]

Regarding ultrasound: they told us we were having twins without any prompting, whereas gender was withheld until after we said we want to see it. It only makes sense to tell them of multiple births for a couple of reasons. First, you're there to look at the ultrasound, and while it may be difficult to spot a penis at that age, if there's a second head there even the most neglective parents are going to notice. And second, anyone who's had a kid knows how much work it is to get ready for the first one... you need to know if you need two cribs, twice as many jammies, think of an extra name, etc. Also, multiples are not easy during pregnancy; they create extra strain on the mother's body, and can often lead to premature delivery (as in my case). You have to warn someone if the pregnancy is going to be difficult.

Padme had to have known. Possibly she didn't tell Anakin because he was already stressed enough about the pregnancy and his visions.

[AK_Jedi]

All the limb replacement we see in the movies is done with minimal resources or with an eye towards expediency.

Anakin's limb replacements would have needed to be fast in order to get back in the clone wars, and later be up on his feet and by the emperor's side quickly. Luke's was done by the rebel's who likely did not have access to cloning facilities.

It seems likely that a cloned limb would be a feasable solution for the rich, or reasonably wealthy who really don't want to have a machine for an arm. But this is a situation where time and resources are minimal concerns.

[Solauren]

It could be scanning of the babies would reveal gendor and PARENT.

You have to admit, a doc scanning a senator and the DNA testing going
Father: Anakin Skywalker, Jedi Knight. Military Rank....
in the middle of the Clone Wars might cause an eyebrow raised.

[000]

A safe bet is that Anakin's arm wasn't reattatched because the cauterized tissue on both sides of the cut made it impossible. He probably opted for a mechanical rather than clone limb out of personal preference-- the boy does like machines.

The explanation for lack of limb cloning post Clone Wars is simple-- it's taboo and mostly illegal.

Boba Fett has a cloned leg, incidentally.

[Drooling Iguana]

Two of them, actually.

And two cloned arms, and every other body part. Didn't you watch AotC?

[000]

Har har. He gets a cloned leg as a replacement for one he lost.

[Doctor Doom]

Remember at the end of RotS Padme already had names prepared for the two twins? This indicates that at least at some point in the course of things she had herself scanned. Unless she pulled those names out of her ass right then and there, which is extremely unlikely.

[Lord Revan]

As it's said the main reason why Cybernetic replacemetns are used instead of cloned parts is indeed based on the fact that it takes time to grow organs for a sentient that's not a clone in first place and frankly it's next to impossible to tell a cybernetic apart from a realm limb if done correctly (it even feels like a real limb).

[Crazedwraith]

Remember at the end of RotS Padme already had names prepared for the two twins? This indicates that at least at some point in the course of things she had herself scanned. Unless she pulled those names out of her ass right then and there, which is extremely unlikely.

Or as she didn't know what sex it was she had one boy name ready and one girl name ready. Which is the novelisations take on it IIRC.

[Ryushikaze]

It wasn't that they originally opted for the cybernetic replacement, it was that cloned flesh was never even considered.

And to the best of my memory, Tenel Ka's objection to the cybernetic arm at the time was a combination of a bizarre insistence to rely on her own strength and a revulsion for the TIE pilot with the robot arm- whose name escapes me- they encountered in the first book of their series. Keeping it as a reminder of the fact that her first lightsaber exploded was an afterthought.

Partly, though, I was curious why a cloned limb wasn't even considered by either Tenel or her Grandmother, since the Hapans don't seem to have the same ethics or laws as the rest of the galaxy, and since the head mother seems more than willing to trample over both to achieve things.

Though it was a very good point about cloned limbs taking time to grow, and the replacement cybernetic often being as good as the original.

[RThurmont]

I think you are collectively overestimating the cost of cloned-organ replacement in the SW universe. We're talking about a civilization that has had cloning for a considerable length of time, that has planets the entire economies of which revolve around cloning, and that is also hugely advanced in other areas of medicine (see: Bacta). The ability to quickly (via the canon "growth acceleration" process-presumably not unique to Kamino) and easily grow and attach cloned replacements cannot be disputed. It would take you at most 10 years to grow an organ that would fit into an adult body, and this organ could then be aged to resemble the original, and in the mean time you could make due with an electromechanical substitute. For all we know, this is the standard proceedure, and Luke and Anakin's cloned organs were "temporaries" destined for removal upon the delivery of a cloned replacement.

I also disagree with the comment about the "spartan" nature of SW living accomodation or other proceedures-the ones we have seen thus far strike me as downright decadent. Even the Lars farm on Tatooine looks quite comfortable - I certainly wouldn't mind living there, and perhaps opening up a chic resort spa and health club like what you currently see cropping up in Arizona and New Mexico. Heck, I'd probably throw in an 18-hole golf course, although in all probability no one would know how to play it.

[Darth Kalgarath]

A golfcourse on Tattooine?!? Wow. That would be a BIIIG sandtrap on the course.

[Darth Kalgarath]

It's probably just more likely that cybernetic replacements are generally regarded as an 'upgrade' of sorts. Anakin actually preferred the prosthetic he designed for himself after his duel with Dooku MORE than the one he was born with.
Think about it. The cybernetic can be upgraded when new systems are avaiable, they can be programmed to ignore pain and simulate the sense of touch, have much greater lifting/carrying capasity comparred to the cloned limb, and can even be 'modded' to include such things as a concealed blaster holster or a cable gun (viz: Grevious) , or such things as storage pockets and other goodies. I mean, come-on, wouldn't you want a cybernetic arm that could double as a plasma cannon if you were given the choice between it or a cloned replacement to the limb you just lost?

[Lazarus]

IMO, characters with lost limbs opt for mechanical over organic because the mechanical parts are superior in almost every way, even feeling normal. I know that if I were to lose an arm, and were given the option of either a cloned replacement or a mechanical one, i would choose the mechanical one, and maybe put some useful features in it like a pop out knife, and make sure it has the ability to crush stuff as well, that would be a great advantage over organic parts.
I'm not so sure about this 'taboo' idea, I can't see any real base for the idea.