Shadow Death Cloud vs DeathStar

[Omega-13]

A completed second Deathstar has dropped out of hyperspace, ,and is now moving towards a planet and is about to destroy it,

from the other side of the system, a shadow deathcloud has come out of its own hyperspace and is going to engage the station, can the shadow stealth ability, 'deep cold' and phasing ability enable it to get through the DSII shields?

Personally, I'm not sure if there is any evidence suggesting that the deathcloud can be stopped by a shield...it can just phase in under it?
i have no idea

[Darth Wong]

A completed second Deathstar has dropped out of hyperspace, ,and is now moving towards a planet and is about to destroy it,

from the other side of the system, a shadow deathcloud has come out of its own hyperspace and is going to engage the station, can the shadow stealth ability, 'deep cold' and phasing ability enable it to get through the DSII shields?

You seem to be assuming that the Death Star won't be shooting at it during this process. It has billions of times the SPK's firepower, remember?

Personally, I'm not sure if there is any evidence suggesting that the deathcloud can be stopped by a shield...it can just phase in under it?

Sheridan's fleet had no trouble attacking this thing on its approach; if it could simply "phase" and pass harmlessly through things, wouldn't it have done so en route to Earth? And how do we know that this thing can cloak? Sheridan had no trouble finding it.

[Sea Skimmer]

A wing of fighters from the Death Star would be enough to take out the pesky SPK. Any unverse whos capital units pfall prey to 2 megaton nuclear devices will not do well against fighters armed with kiloton directed energy weapons and bombers with 190 megaton to gigaton range missiles.

The hundreds of gigaton and teraton range surfauce turbolaser and Superlaser are overkill.

[DodoBrd16]

Actually it was the more advanced sensors of the Victory class destroyers that allowed them to break through shadow jamming and ECM, up until the assault on Earth, nothing that Sheridans forces had up to that point could breach those shadow defenses. And even with the new sensors it was not that easy to breach the ECM.

Now assuming that the Imperials are able to target the super structure, how many shots would it take to destroy the thing?

[Stormbringer]

Now assuming that the Imperials are able to target the super structure, how many shots would it take to destroy the thing?

One. 200+ gigatons would tear the SPK to peices. It's simply not that durable.

[Zaku-chan]

Now assuming that the Imperials are able to target the super structure, how many shots would it take to destroy the thing?

Only one, if they figure out how to target the central node.

[Ender]

Oh, the old "we'll phase through shields because shields don't have an extra dimensional blocking component" theory. My favorite. One problem: Shields do have an extradimensional blocking ability. Hence why they need to be dropped to communicate via another dimension. They block the energy transmissions otherwise.

Basically this comes down to if the KE/explosions from the missiles will wear down the shields of if the TLs can disassemble the structure that makes up the SPK first.

[Master of Ossus]

Actually it was the more advanced sensors of the Victory class destroyers that allowed them to break through shadow jamming and ECM, up until the assault on Earth, nothing that Sheridans forces had up to that point could breach those shadow defenses. And even with the new sensors it was not that easy to breach the ECM.

Now assuming that the Imperials are able to target the super structure, how many shots would it take to destroy the thing?

The Death Star has more advanced sensors than the Victory class destroyer. Death Star shots are likely several megatons each at a minimum, with many batteries totalling in the high-gigaton range at the least. The SPK was destroyed by warships with multi-megaton weapons representing their heaviest armaments.

[Omega-13]

the shadow ECM couldn't be penetrated by anything short of the victory that has vorlon sensors on it

(now i'm not saying the SPK would win, but i'm just thinking of some things)

it also puts a deep cold around whatever it surrounds, would that cause a problem for the deathstar?

[Omega-13]

Oh, the old "we'll phase through shields because shields don't have an extra dimensional blocking component" theory. My favorite. One problem: Shields do have an extradimensional blocking ability. Hence why they need to be dropped to communicate via another dimension. They block the energy transmissions otherwise.

Basically this comes down to if the KE/explosions from the missiles will wear down the shields of if the TLs can disassemble the structure that makes up the SPK first.

the SPK would be phasing from its own hyperspace to real space,
the Empire would have to know of its existance to be able to block it in that relm

[Master of Ossus]

it also puts a deep cold around whatever it surrounds, would that cause a problem for the deathstar?

The Death Star's volume is enormous, and its hull is made of something with such a high specific heat that it can withstand thermonuclear strikes without problems. The deep cold thing would do squat.

[DodoBrd16]

"A wing of fighters from the Death Star would be enough to take out the pesky SPK. Any unverse whos capital units pfall prey to 2 megaton nuclear devices will not do well against fighters armed with kiloton directed energy weapons and bombers with 190 megaton to gigaton range missiles. "
_______________________________________________________________________

Those fighters would be swatted from the sky by the hundreds of short range beam weapons that protect the Death Cloud.

And as for the comment on Zha'ha'dum(sp), I take it you havent read the Technomage series, Galen, the bald dude in Crusade was able to disable the Eye(( the system that controls all of Zha'ha'dums defenses)) that allowed for the White star to breach and do what it did.

Oh and detonate a 2 megaton war head over the emperors palace on Coruscant with out shields protecting it and it would be nuclear slag.

[Omega-13]

it also puts a deep cold around whatever it surrounds, would that cause a problem for the deathstar?

The Death Star's volume is enormous, and its hull is made of something with such a high specific heat that it can withstand thermonuclear strikes without problems. The deep cold thing would do squat.

didn't know Imperial Armour was that tough, when did it take thermonuclear hits and the armour withstood it?

[Ender]

the SPK would be phasing from its own hyperspace to real space,
the Empire would have to know of its existance to be able to block it in that relm

It's called pairity of function Omega. For the same reasons I can't claim that wars weapons would fly through Vorlon shields because the vorlons didn't design their shields to block turbolasers, you can't claim that.

[Ender]

it also puts a deep cold around whatever it surrounds, would that cause a problem for the deathstar?

The Death Star's volume is enormous, and its hull is made of something with such a high specific heat that it can withstand thermonuclear strikes without problems. The deep cold thing would do squat.

didn't know Imperial Armour was that tough, when did it take thermonuclear hits and the armour withstood it?

Acclamators in ICS
It says they can take high yield fusion bombs with no damage. Means a raw minimum of over 100 KT if you want to do more then score the paint.

[DodoBrd16]

"The Death Star has more advanced sensors than the Victory class destroyer. Death Star shots are likely several megatons each at a minimum, with many batteries totalling in the high-gigaton range at the least. The SPK was destroyed by warships with multi-megaton weapons representing their heaviest armaments."
_______________________________________________________________________

And you can be certain its sensors are more advanced how? Victory class destroyer sensors could very well be based off of Vorlon technology which is BILLIONS of years old. Not saying the death star doesnt have more advanced sensors, but I doubt anyone knows.

Also the shadow death cloud was not destroyed by any standard weaponry, it was destroyed by the 2,990.31 meter long Victory(( the ship that the class was named after)) going at maximum velocity right into a Critical node in the death cloud.

[Omega-13]

the SPK would be phasing from its own hyperspace to real space,
the Empire would have to know of its existance to be able to block it in that relm

It's called pairity of function Omega. For the same reasons I can't claim that wars weapons would fly through Vorlon shields because the vorlons didn't design their shields to block turbolasers, you can't claim that.

thats a little different

turbo lasers exist in the same universe that the shield is in, and designed to top things in this universe, when you go beyond this universe, then you also need a shield that exist in that 'other' universe to stop it there aswell, same rule, different universe

[Darth Wong]

the shadow ECM couldn't be penetrated by anything short of the victory that has vorlon sensors on it

Don't be ridiculous. Why do you think they need to hit the central node? They have more than enough firepower to blow the whole thing to hell, so there's no need to have long-range targeting of a particular piece.

For that matter, they probably wouldn't even bother engaging the cloud anyway. The engagement would go like this:

"Sir, we have come out of hyperspace, and are in range of the planet. There appears to be some kind of cloud coming around the far side."

"I'm not interested in clouds, commander. You may fire when ready."

"Commence primary ignition".

*20 seconds later, the planet is destroyed, and the cloud is destroyed by the titanic blast*

Frankly, given the scenario, the people on the Death Star would probably never even recognize the cloud as a threat, nor would they pay any attention to it before they're on their merry way and its shattered debris has joined the debris of the planet on its way to oblivion.

[Sea Skimmer]

"A wing of fighters from the Death Star would be enough to take out the pesky SPK. Any unverse whos capital units pfall prey to 2 megaton nuclear devices will not do well against fighters armed with kiloton directed energy weapons and bombers with 190 megaton to gigaton range missiles. "
_______________________________________________________________________

Those fighters would be swatted from the sky by the hundreds of short range beam weapons that protect the Death Cloud.

And as for the comment on Zha'ha'dum(sp), I take it you havent read the Technomage series, Galen, the bald dude in Crusade was able to disable the Eye(( the system that controls all of Zha'ha'dums defenses)) that allowed for the White star to breach and do what it did.

Oh and detonate a 2 megaton war head over the emperors palace on Coruscant with out shields protecting it and it would be nuclear slag.

Except Star Wars has materials, which shrug off thermonuclear shaped charges without even being cratered. Durasteel can withstand gigaton range hits. A two-megaton device would be lucky to set the carpets on fire through the palace windows. Though they likely polarize in the event of flashes.

I seriously doubt B5 defensive guns could cope with small jammer equipped fighters capable of thousands of G's.

[XaLEv]

Oh, the old "we'll phase through shields because shields don't have an extra dimensional blocking component" theory. My favorite. One problem: Shields do have an extradimensional blocking ability. Hence why they need to be dropped to communicate via another dimension. They block the energy transmissions otherwise.

Basically this comes down to if the KE/explosions from the missiles will wear down the shields of if the TLs can disassemble the structure that makes up the SPK first.

This sure sounds like a no-limits fallacy to me. PROVE THEY CAN BLOCK IT! Don't just say "They can block this, so they must be able to block that as well."

[Ender]

thats a little different

turbo lasers exist in the same universe that the shield is in, and designed to top things in this universe, when you go beyond this universe, then you also need a shield that exist in that 'other' universe to stop it there aswell, same rule, different universe

Negative. In the debates you let FTL sensors pick up either side because of parity of function, but in many cases they go through different dimensions.

[SirNitram]

"The Death Star has more advanced sensors than the Victory class destroyer. Death Star shots are likely several megatons each at a minimum, with many batteries totalling in the high-gigaton range at the least. The SPK was destroyed by warships with multi-megaton weapons representing their heaviest armaments."
_______________________________________________________________________

And you can be certain its sensors are more advanced how? Victory class destroyer sensors could very well be based off of Vorlon technology which is BILLIONS of years old. Not saying the death star doesnt have more advanced sensors, but I doubt anyone knows.

Also the shadow death cloud was not destroyed by any standard weaponry, it was destroyed by the 2,990.31 meter long Victory(( the ship that the class was named after)) going at maximum velocity right into a Critical node in the death cloud.

Sensors: How about some numbers? Some things they can and can't detect? Star Wars has been around for 250,000 years, and vastly outstrip the Vorlons in most areas. Simply saying 'It's billions of years old' is not proof.

Death of the Cloud: And the Death Star II is 900,000 meters in diameter and blows up planets. Next.

[Master of Ossus]

"A wing of fighters from the Death Star would be enough to take out the pesky SPK. Any unverse whos capital units pfall prey to 2 megaton nuclear devices will not do well against fighters armed with kiloton directed energy weapons and bombers with 190 megaton to gigaton range missiles. "

Those fighters would be swatted from the sky by the hundreds of short range beam weapons that protect the Death Cloud.

Hello, unsubstantiated claim, do you realize that Imperial starfighters are much more maneuverable than the ships attacking the SPK in B5 and much smaller? Do you further realize that the weapons in B5 may be unable to destroy even Imperial starfighters?

And as for the comment on Zha'ha'dum(sp), I take it you havent read the Technomage series, Galen, the bald dude in Crusade was able to disable the Eye(( the system that controls all of Zha'ha'dums defenses)) that allowed for the White star to breach and do what it did.

WHAT COMMENT ABOUT ZHA'HA'DUM? You replied to a post with a reference to the Black Star in ItB, and you respond to it with a red herring regarding Zha'ha'dum?

Oh and detonate a 2 megaton war head over the emperors palace on Coruscant with out shields protecting it and it would be nuclear slag.

Unsubstantiated claim. Small and unprotected SW buildings can be destroyed with kiloton to megaton scale weapons, but the Emperor's Palace on Coruscant is heavily armored and can allegedly withstand numerous turbolaser blasts. Two megatons would do damage, but it almost certainly would not destroy the building. Moreover, the building would clealy not be melted by such an attack.

[DodoBrd16]

"One. 200+ gigatons would tear the SPK to peices. It's simply not that durable."
_______________________________________________________________________

Assuming it can target it accuratly, there are alot of open areas in the frame work.

Me personaly, I dont think the SDC would win, however I dont think it would be all clean cut.

Lol its kind of funny.....one of the younger races of B5 would have a better chance of destroying the Death Star. A jump point deep inside the Death Star would seriously hurt its capability to run properly Lol.

Unfortunetly for the shadows, they phase into normal and hyperspace.

[Master of Ossus]

I didn't know Imperial Armour was that tough, when did it take thermonuclear hits and the armour withstood it?

ICS:II says that it can take thermonuclear hits and merely be scarred by the weapons--not even pitted.