Star Trek Legacy

Darth Quorthon · Post by **Darth Quorthon** » 2006-01-24 07:52pm

Star Trek: Legacy Announced, First Shots [Uros "2Lions" Jojic]
06:13 pm EST @ January 24th, 2006

The folks over at Bethesda (yeah, they're the ones working on Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion) announce that they'll be publishing two new Star Trek games. The less interesting one (at least to me), Star Trek: Tactical Assault, is for the DS and PSP handhelds, while Star Trek: Legacy is slated for the PC and Xbox 360, developed by Mad Doc Software (creators of Star Trek Armada II), and due out this September.

Taking advantage of next-generation consoles, Star Trek: Legacy features dynamic three-dimensional battlefields with graphically stunning space environments filled with fully realized nebulas, wormholes, planets, and stars. With full multiplayer support, you will be able to choose from small-scale engagements to all-out war involving multiple star systems in addition to tracking stats and player rankings. Star Trek: Legacy is being developed at the studios of Mad Doc Software, creators of the highly successful and critically acclaimed Star Trek Armada II.

“Being able to work with the entire universe of this beloved series is an incredibly exciting opportunity for us,” said Todd Vaughn, vice president of development for Bethesda Softworks. “We have some great ideas about where we want to go with this license and having the exclusive right to develop and publish Star Trek games across all platforms ensures that every Star Trek game will be a quality game worthy of its name.”

We've also got two launch screenshots.

Screenshots

Anyone think it'll be worth a damn? IMO, there have not been a whole lot of good ST games. I like the developer though.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-24 07:58pm

I've never played the Armada franchise

I just hope they don't put all these uber-wank, never-seen-in-canon "battleships" and crap in, I hate that shit. Worst aspect of the Klingon Academy game.

The screenshot shows a Constitution, Defiant, Excelsior and Ambassador all in the same screen, being fired on by what looks to be an uber-wank, ever seen in canon battleship. Yay.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2006-01-24 08:08pm

I'm a bit wary when I hear games announced for DS and PSP. Generally it means that the DS version will be an imitation, using none of the exclusive features like the touch screen and microphone, and just being the same game with worse graphics, no analog stick and weaker physics.

For example, Burnout DS. One of the worst DS games of the year. Basicly just an uglier version of the PSP one.

Star Wars Episode 3 DS (the PSP version was never released but was originally announced) was a GBA port.

Hopefully they'll make it an actual DS game that uses the DS's features.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-01-24 08:24pm

Vympel wrote:I've never played the Armada franchise

I just hope they don't put all these uber-wank, never-seen-in-canon "battleships" and crap in, I hate that shit. Worst aspect of the Klingon Academy game.

The screenshot shows a Constitution, Defiant, Excelsior and Ambassador all in the same screen, being fired on by what looks to be an uber-wank, ever seen in canon battleship. Yay.

Klingon Academy didn't exactly just invent new ships. A lot of them were from Starfleet Command games, and those were based off of Starfleet Battles .

By the way, check that "uber-wank battleship" out more closely. You'll find that it's nothing more than a Negvar. The storyline goes through all the TV series...so that's why you see them all on screen. It must be some sort of timeline mesh.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-24 08:29pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Klingon Academy didn't exactly just invent new ships. A lot of them were from Starfleet Command games, and those were based off of Starfleet Battles .

I hated Starfleet Command for that as well. It was just lame and stank of fanboy invention.

By the way, check that "uber-wank battleship" out more closely. You'll find that it's nothing more than a Negvar.

Can't tell- but the nacelles looked suspicious, and the beams made it ambiguous as to whether it was a Klingon ship.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-01-24 08:30pm

Vympel wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Klingon Academy didn't exactly just invent new ships. A lot of them were from Starfleet Command games, and those were based off of Starfleet Battles .
I hated Starfleet Command for that as well. It was just lame and wreaked of fanboy invention.

Why? It's not like they were bristling with thousands of weapons. It's nothing worse than the EU for Star Wars...unless you hate that too. Honestly, that makes no sense to me because any Star Trek game would be weak in terms of content.

Can't tell- but the nacelles looked suspicious, and the beams made it ambiguous as to whether it was a Klingon ship.

It's a Negvar. I can tell quite easily.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2006-01-24 08:47pm

Starfleet Command is probably my favorite Star Trek game series of all time. And yes, it's a Negvar.

I honestly don't mind all the battleships in Klingon Academy and Starfleet Command. You know why? Look at the Klingon fleet. You'll find THREE SHIPS:

The D7, Negvar, and ten thousand Bird of Prey variants.

I much prefer the SFC/KA system with D7 being a cruiser, Bird of Prey being an escort frigate, and Negvar being the TNG battleship and non present in the TOS/TMP time periods.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-24 08:48pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote: Why? It's not like they were bristling with thousands of weapons.

It just wasn't Star Trek. Specifically, it wasn't the Federation. Those massive chunky ships with the uber-shields and the shitloads of phasers and torpedoes just didn't sit right.

It's nothing worse than the EU for Star Wars...unless you hate that too.

Depends. I despise the Eclipse-class, as an example. It's perfectly ok inventing new ship classes that seamlessly fit in to what's already known from the canon. Starfleet Command and the games it spawned failed at that misreably.

Honestly, that makes no sense to me because any Star Trek game would be weak in terms of content.

No, you just should add new ships that fit, rather than being obvious fan wank crap, like "OMG wouldn't it be teh awesome to have the r0xxorZ Federation Super Dreadnought!" And really, there's a shitload of ship designs to choose from just from the series, I don't see how content could be an issue. If I see a Feddie ship more bigger and powerful than a Sovereign-class or a War Galaxy, though, I will be pissed.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-01-24 08:49pm

I have to agree with Kamikazie. I didn't find anything particularly offensive with fleshing out the fleets a little, and I thought it was an interesting look at what a Galaxy-sized movie-era battleship could be like. Just pretend it's an alternate universe and problem solved.

If anything, what bugs me more about most Star Trek games is the way the ships are usually castrated into worthlessness. Oh hey we're only going to give you half the weapons capacity we've seen demonstrated on TV/movies because we're too inept to make a good game with the ships at full strength, HURR.

And seriously, that is a Negh'Var. Although I find the inclusion of the Constitution cruiser troubling... almost like they want to have a whole bunch of individual, specialized ships, so they'll use every starship model they can grab their hands on and to hell with the consistency.

Actually, scratch that, I find the whole idea of mix-and-matching 23rd and 24th century eras in a single game rather troubling.

I'm not terribly optimistic about this game.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-01-24 08:54pm

Uraniun235 wrote:
And seriously, that is a Negh'Var. Although I find the inclusion of the Constitution cruiser troubling... almost like they want to have a whole bunch of individual, specialized ships, so they'll use every starship model they can grab their hands on and to hell with the consistency.

I think they're doing something a little like StarCrossed in that the timelines are meshed.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2006-01-24 08:55pm

Uraniun235 wrote:Actually, scratch that, I find the whole idea of mix-and-matching 23rd and 24th century eras in a single game rather troubling.

Properly handled I like the concept of actually having older ships around. It shows that everything just isnt unlimited hordes of cutting edge ships.

But this is Startrek, the chances of it being properly handled are slim to nill.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-01-24 09:03pm

I know; you'd think that at least some of the people who would work on such a game actually like Star Trek and would strive to actually get things right.

But wait! That doesn't even mean anything given what happened to Bridge Commander!

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2006-01-24 09:06pm

Star Fleet Command is based off of Star Fleet Battles a game that has litterally hundreds of ships for a dozen races set in an alternate TOS reality.

You have everything from fighters to police gunboats to destroyers to dreadnoughts....only the klingons ever built a battleship B10 but the other races had plans on the boards.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-24 09:06pm

No, I think they're just making a game with a long timeline. A Constitution-class was present at Wolf 359, after all.

If anything, what bugs me more about most Star Trek games is the way the ships are usually castrated into worthlessness. Oh hey we're only going to give you half the weapons capacity we've seen demonstrated on TV/movies because we're too inept to make a good game with the ships at full strength, HURR.

You mean the Bridge Commander pussified starships, with their lame torpedo salvos and non-working phaser banks?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-01-24 09:07pm

Vympel wrote:No, I think they're just making a game with a long timeline. A Constitution-class was present at Wolf 359, after all.

If anything, what bugs me more about most Star Trek games is the way the ships are usually castrated into worthlessness. Oh hey we're only going to give you half the weapons capacity we've seen demonstrated on TV/movies because we're too inept to make a good game with the ships at full strength, HURR.
You mean the Bridge Commander pussified starships, with their lame torpedo salvos and non-working phaser banks?

Oh yeah. Not to mention just overall shitty combat, and really bad damage graphics...

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-01-24 09:26pm

Vympel wrote:I hated Starfleet Command for that as well. It was just lame and stank of fanboy invention.

Its nothing of the sort. SFC was devoted to tactical fighting with an Alternate Reality version of Trek. The KA ships largely came from SFC, and it was nice to see they didn't invent new ships.

Can't tell- but the nacelles looked suspicious, and the beams made it ambiguous as to whether it was a Klingon ship.

Its definately a Negh'Var.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-01-24 09:29pm

Vympel wrote:It just wasn't Star Trek. Specifically, it wasn't the Federation. Those massive chunky ships with the uber-shields and the shitloads of phasers and torpedoes just didn't sit right.

Actualy, KA and SFC had more realism on Trek ships then any other game. Whats sad is that your used to the pathetic showing of Trek ships and consider that normal. Bridge Commander did not accurately portray ships. You should have had staggering firepower at your command with a Sovereign, but didn't.

No, you just should add new ships that fit, rather than being obvious fan wank crap, like "OMG wouldn't it be teh awesome to have the r0xxorZ Federation Super Dreadnought!" And really, there's a shitload of ship designs to choose from just from the series, I don't see how content could be an issue. If I see a Feddie ship more bigger and powerful than a Sovereign-class or a War Galaxy, though, I will be pissed.

Actualy, you only have 4 ships to choose from for Movie Era for the Federation.

Constitution
Constellation
Miranda
Excelsio

There are not a massive number of ships that can be picked from. Now, in the TNG+ era, this isn't a problem for the Federation, but the other races have at best 4 designs, some have much less. The Romulans have a whopping two ship designs.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-01-24 09:45pm

Alyeska wrote: Actualy, KA and SFC had more realism on Trek ships then any other game.

When was the last time you saw missiles being used in Star Trek as a distinct class from photon torpedoes? Starfleet Command had that. KA however was relatively realistic for the TOS-movie period, apart from it's high level wank-ships.

Whats sad is that your used to the pathetic showing of Trek ships and consider that normal. Bridge Commander did not accurately portray ships. You should have had staggering firepower at your command with a Sovereign, but didn't.

I never considered Bridge Commander's ship weaponry normal, I found it anemic and infuriating. What Bridge Commander did do right, as far as I remember, is not add ships that dwarfed the Sovereign in size and power to the Federation arsenal.

Actualy, you only have 4 ships to choose from for Movie Era for the Federation.

Constitution
Constellation
Miranda
Excelsio

And the Excelsior should be the most powerful. If they want to add other ships, they should fit them in between the others, not add more powerful ships on top of them in a clear act of having no imagination save to add uberships. I liked the few extra small ships that KA added, but I hated the big ones.

There are not a massive number of ships that can be picked from. Now, in the TNG+ era, this isn't a problem for the Federation, but the other races have at best 4 designs, some have much less. The Romulans have a whopping two ship designs.

Then simply add some equivalents, made up. But don't make 2km long Uber Warbird or some such.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-01-24 11:53pm

Vympel wrote:When was the last time you saw missiles being used in Star Trek as a distinct class from photon torpedoes? Starfleet Command had that. KA however was relatively realistic for the TOS-movie period, apart from it's high level wank-ships.

This is because SFC is an alternate reality where missiles are used. Of course most Fed ships don't have much in the way of missiles. SFC was never meant to be realistic to Trek, it was meant to be realistic to SFB. Even still, its one of the best Trek games to date.

I never considered Bridge Commander's ship weaponry normal, I found it anemic and infuriating. What Bridge Commander did do right, as far as I remember, is not add ships that dwarfed the Sovereign in size and power to the Federation arsenal.

Its part of the universe for SFC and KA. That said, the big ships are actualy quite rare. The Federation is said to have a single Battleship and a half dozen dreadnaughts. And these designs aren't as outlandish as you think when you consider the TOS Tech Manual had dreadnaught designs.

And the Excelsior should be the most powerful. If they want to add other ships, they should fit them in between the others, not add more powerful ships on top of them in a clear act of having no imagination save to add uberships. I liked the few extra small ships that KA added, but I hated the big ones.

The Excelsior is only a Battle Cruiser. For a game attempting to portray a complete navy in size, KA and SFC had to go beyond that.

Then simply add some equivalents, made up. But don't make 2km long Uber Warbird or some such.

For the Romulans, they could always go with the Scimitar. Thing is, the Romulans don't really need big ships, but they sure as hell need small ships. Your stuck on the issue of big ships when in reality different groups suffer different defencies. The Federation and Klingons lack truly large ships, but then again they tend not to need them.

Count Dooku · Post by **Count Dooku** » 2006-02-02 02:07am

I don't mean to bring this back from the dead, but some of you are bashing Bridge Commander for being an un-realistic game. When it was a stock game, it was VERY un-realistic. But when you mod it, it gets a LOT more cannon, and a LOT more interesting. There are mods where you can command ANY ship EVER to be in the history of Star Trek. Check it out: http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/files/

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-02-02 03:07am

The point is that you shouldn't have to mod a game to make it realistic. The developers should've done that. I hate faux "balance" being added in games. If anything, the characteristics of fictional warships compared to each other are very well defined- by comparison, you see unforgiving and yes, "unbalanced" situations in flight simulators like LO:MAC, Il-2, etc. That's part of the fun. If I'm the Captain of a Sovereign-class Starship, I expect to feel the power at my command, and know that no other ship I will encounter outmatches me.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-02-02 03:15am

Count Dooku wrote:I don't mean to bring this back from the dead, but some of you are bashing Bridge Commander for being an un-realistic game. When it was a stock game, it was VERY un-realistic. But when you mod it, it gets a LOT more cannon, and a LOT more interesting. There are mods where you can command ANY ship EVER to be in the history of Star Trek. Check it out: http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/files/

The mod scene for BC is a godforsaken abortion, I am not even kidding. It is incredibly unintuitive and poorly-coordinated, and the whole damn community is shot through with dumbass teenagers. And even with good mods, it still doesn't have the right feel to it.

And honestly, that touches a nerve with me, because when you look at Bridge Commander you can just tell that they half-assed the game and expected modders to fill in the gaps.

Totally Games can bite my ass.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2006-02-02 03:19am

The screenshots are good, it doesn't really say anything about the game, other than the usual improvement in graphics. The concept sounds good, and hopefully it will be something more like Homeworld 2 than Armada.
The idea of multiple systems sounds a little like Conquest, a union of Conquest and Homeworld 2 would most definatly be something interesting. Hopefully this one turns out good.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-02-02 04:43am

Looks more like Nexus to me. A kind of Homeworld Lite, with more focus on individual ship systems and such. Like SFC!

And what's to whine about SFC's ships? The UFP Dreadnaught looked like an Ambassador class, and had barely more weapons than an Excelsior.