USMC vs Jedi

[Howedar]

He would NOT stand up like an idiot and let the Marines know where he is.

Why not? Thats precisely what he did the two times he aimed to fight, on Naboo against Darth Maul and on Geonosis against Dooku.

One on one? Sure. But when outnumbered, he sneaks around.

Or when he doesn't seek combat, he sneaks around, but always acts retarded when looking for a fight. To be honest, we don't have enough evidence tod decide, as Obi-Wan has never sought combat with a large group of people.

Look at their conduct against the droid army occupying Theed; did Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan march into the city and do battle head-on with the army? Of course not. That would be moronic. Instead, they snuck around and ambushed an isolated group.

IIRC, their goals were to kill Darth Maul and to help Amidala capture the Viceroy. When going after Darth Maul, Obi-Wan and Qui-gon were typically flashy. They never really went after the Viceroy. Again, we lack sufficient evidence.

The AOTC arena scene showed us that numbers and automatic weapons can take down Jedi, but this should not have come as a surprise (and of course, the Jedi in the gunship that got hit by AA fire couldn't do anything to prevent his death either), so it's hardly news that enough Marines could beat a Jedi in a kill-or-be-killed situation.

Only a damned fool would claim otherwise.

The question is how many it would take, that's all this thread is asking. A half-dozen guys, for example, would not be enough.

You are entitled to your opinion.

[Darth Wong]

Well if it was the arena instead of swarms of driod's charging out of the entrance tunnels it would be streams of tracers from the LAV-AD's parked inside of them, followed by the whistling of 60 and 81mm mortar rounds and a hail of fire from machine guns in the upper levels. Every lesser entrance would probably be collapsed by explosive charges.

Assuming the Marines don’t just have a flight of JDAM armed Harriers circling.

The Marines get to have vehicles too?

[DodoBrd16]

My question is, could a Jedi defend against a sniper? Some very good snipers can pick a man off from over a mile or so away.

And I'm not certain about this, but I think the bullet from the rifle may actually be going faster then sound. And with a bullet reflecting very little light, unlike a blaster bolt, would a Jedi even know he or she was being fired upon until it was to late?

[Omega-13]

If it was in an urban environment, the Jedi would definatley last longer, but would eventually be killed by probably an M40 grenade, he can't block it with his lightsabre, or it'll explode, so he's toasted


In a forrest or field, he's even more dead, how's he going to stop hundreds of rounds going in his direction, even if he blocked the rounds with his lightsabre he'd get burned, and the rounds that missed him would blow chucks out of the tree, and the wood would also be threats to him,

he'd be ,burned, injured, dazed and confused within 5 or 6 seconds of the first engagement, he'd then start to slow down as his injuries got worse, its hard to stop and concentrate to heal yourself when you got morters and M40's being launched at ya.

Jedi can run fast down a STRAIGHT path, with no obsticals, never seen them do this in a forrest, just the control ship in TPM

[Sea Skimmer]

Well if it was the arena instead of swarms of driod's charging out of the entrance tunnels it would be streams of tracers from the LAV-AD's parked inside of them, followed by the whistling of 60 and 81mm mortar rounds and a hail of fire from machine guns in the upper levels. Every lesser entrance would probably be collapsed by explosive charges.

Assuming the Marines don’t just have a flight of JDAM armed Harriers circling.

The Marines get to have vehicles too?

I'd assume so

This thread didn't infantry weapons only. The Marines send vehicles with basically everything company level or over. Even if they have to fly them in with CH-53E's. Other are working on the basis that the company would have its heavy weapons platoon, 60 mortars and Mk.19's. You need vehicle logistic support to keep those in action for any length.

It seems unlikely its meant infantry only since specific numbers which correspond to the fully equipped Marine units where given in several cases. No aircraft with the lesser numbers I would expect though, Marine aircraft are divisional assets.

[Sea Skimmer]

My question is, could a Jedi defend against a sniper? Some very good snipers can pick a man off from over a mile or so away.

And I'm not certain about this, but I think the bullet from the rifle may actually be going faster then sound. And with a bullet reflecting very little light, unlike a blaster bolt, would a Jedi even know he or she was being fired upon until it was to late?

They'd know it was coming before the round was out of the barrel and move a foot to the side. Essentially all rifle, pistol and machinegun rounds are super sonic. Only some special rounds meant for use with silencers are sub sonic.

[Darth Wong]

This thread didn't infantry weapons only. The Marines send vehicles with basically everything company level or over. Even if they have to fly them in with CH-53E's. Other are working on the basis that the company would have its heavy weapons platoon, 60 mortars and Mk.19's. You need vehicle logistic support to keep those in action for any length.

Well yes, the larger options on the poll are kind of ridiculous. I'd say that a Jedi could take out one Marine with no problems, or stalk and eliminate a squad of 4 pretty easily, but it's dicier when you get to the bigger units and downright ridiculous with the really big units.

Mind you, a lot of it depends on how the Jedi chooses to use his power. Or, to put it another way, if you had Jedi skills, how many Marines could you kill before they took you down?

[weemadando]

If it was in an urban environment, the Jedi would definatley last longer, but would eventually be killed by probably an M40 grenade, he can't block it with his lightsabre, or it'll explode, so he's toasted

Hello? 1) Force push, can "bounce" or atleast redirect the grenade. 2) Jedi combat sense and speed = dodge.

In a forrest or field, he's even more dead, how's he going to stop hundreds of rounds going in his direction, even if he blocked the rounds with his lightsabre he'd get burned, and the rounds that missed him would blow chucks out of the tree, and the wood would also be threats to him,

Quite so. Which is why, they'd likely try and get the hell out of the forest like they did in Ep1.

he'd be ,burned, injured, dazed and confused within 5 or 6 seconds of the first engagement, he'd then start to slow down as his injuries got worse, its hard to stop and concentrate to heal yourself when you got morters and M40's being launched at ya.

Actually if I was the Jedi in question my first order of business would be to sneak/mindtrick my way to the heavy weapons and then disable them/mind trick to turn them on "friendlies".

You assume that Jedi are incompetent and stupid...

Jedi can run fast down a STRAIGHT path, with no obsticals, never seen them do this in a forrest, just the control ship in TPM

Oh, so we never see them running through a forest in Episode 1? Damn I must have missed that 5 minute set piece.

[Knife]

Well if it was the arena instead of swarms of driod's charging out of the entrance tunnels it would be streams of tracers from the LAV-AD's parked inside of them, followed by the whistling of 60 and 81mm mortar rounds and a hail of fire from machine guns in the upper levels. Every lesser entrance would probably be collapsed by explosive charges.

Assuming the Marines don’t just have a flight of JDAM armed Harriers circling.

The Marines get to have vehicles too?

I'd assume so

This thread didn't infantry weapons only. The Marines send vehicles with basically everything company level or over. Even if they have to fly them in with CH-53E's. Other are working on the basis that the company would have its heavy weapons platoon, 60 mortars and Mk.19's. You need vehicle logistic support to keep those in action for any length.

It seems unlikely its meant infantry only since specific numbers which correspond to the fully equipped Marine units where given in several cases. No aircraft with the lesser numbers I would expect though, Marine aircraft are divisional assets.

Sorry man but small nickpit, the Mk 19's go with the weapons company, not the weapons platoon.

[tharkûn]

I'm going with one marine (or more aptly two, but that wasn't listed). However I'm assuming the USMC uses snipers. As I recall TMP Obi-wan doesn't know the Trade Feddies want to kill him until after they kill his ship.

Yes the Jedi have amazingly quick reflexes, however I doubt they will react to a bullet to the back of the head before it kills them. Given the amount of time snipers take to get the perfect shot ... they can wait for the Jedi to present a damn good target.

Now the problem here is of course if the Jedi knows they are coming, but in this case I doubt the Jedi can be killed ... just get the heck out of Dodge (or do some counter sniping).

If the Jedi can precognize or telepathically read his opponents intents ... again any number of men is screwed.

If the Jedi can be taken by surprise I go with 2 men, a sniper and a spotter. If they reflexes are damn quick even when getting shot from behind ... go with 6 (3 teams set up for a cross fire).

If the Jedi can survive 3 sniper teams while in the crossfire ... forget about killing them. The Jedi will easily survive any level of enemy force below saturation shelling/bombing (namely by hiding/running away/dicky with enemy minds ... it's damn hard to kill what you can't see). You either take the Jedi by surprise (and off him before he reacts) or you get a fix on his general location and saturate the area until he is overcome, which he would be stupid to allow in the first place (this why STEALTH, not aim is the snipers biggest asset). I've seen snipers manage to hide from huge groups (whose only mission was to kill the damn sniper ... with arty support if need be) and survive shelling in war games ... I have no doubt Jedi can easily accomplish the same.

[Darth Wong]

I'm going with one marine (or more aptly two, but that wasn't listed). However I'm assuming the USMC uses snipers. As I recall TMP Obi-wan doesn't know the Trade Feddies want to kill him until after they kill his ship.

That's not the same kind of clear and present danger as someone taking a shot at you; they blew up his ship but he wasn't in it at the time.

Yes the Jedi have amazingly quick reflexes, however I doubt they will react to a bullet to the back of the head before it kills them.

Did you sleep through TPM? The Jedi do not have quick reflexes; they appear to have quick reflexes because they can sense things before they happen.

Given the amount of time snipers take to get the perfect shot ... they can wait for the Jedi to present a damn good target.

This is kill-or-be-killed. Stop committing the all-too-common "vs" debating trick of assuming that one side is clueless and wandering around aimlessly while the other side is on the attack. The sniper would need psychic powers in order to know where the Jedi is, while the Jedi is fully alert and aggressive as per the scenario, and would know where the sniper is even without having a direct line of sight.

Now the problem here is of course if the Jedi knows they are coming, but in this case I doubt the Jedi can be killed ... just get the heck out of Dodge (or do some counter sniping).

One or two men against a Jedi are toast. He doesn't even need weapons; he can easily kill them telekinetically from a distance.

If the Jedi can precognize or telepathically read his opponents intents ... again any number of men is screwed.

I wouldn't go that far. We saw the limitations of Jedi against large numbers of attackers and automatic weapons in the Geonosis arena. The Jedi would make himself almost impossible to track and attack, but he would not be able to take out a large group of Marines once they've set up a defensive perimeter.

You either take the Jedi by surprise (and off him before he reacts) or you get a fix on his general location and saturate the area until he is overcome, which he would be stupid to allow in the first place (this why STEALTH, not aim is the snipers biggest asset). I've seen snipers manage to hide from huge groups (whose only mission was to kill the damn sniper ... with arty support if need be) and survive shelling in war games ... I have no doubt Jedi can easily accomplish the same.

If the Jedi doesn't want to be found, he won't be found, and he'll slip away. They won't be able to kill him. However, he won't be able to kill them either, and in a "vs" scenario, it is a victory to force the enemy to acknowledge your authority and flee.

[Robert Treder]

In an urban environment, I'd say somewhere between a platoon and company-sized force would take care of him.
I figure the Jedi would cut through Marine after Marine until a sizeable amount of explosives were able to be concentrated on his location. This might take a while, because the Jedi will obviously be able to stalk his prey much more efficiently than the Marines. All you Marine-apologists might get offended by that notion, but remember: telepathy. It's a bitch.
Because the Jedi's goal is to wipe them out (all of them), he will eventually have to get close to every single one of them at one point or another. This is due to the fact that Jedi don't seem to be fond of ranged weapons (unless we're talking about Katarn). A reasonably dense formation of Marines would take the Jedi a fair amount of time and concentration to deal with, if he doesn't just collapse the ceiling on them or choke them all to death. This could provide the Marines the opportunity to rain down a bunch o' bombs (hand grenades, rifle grenades, mortars, towed artillery, Harrier strikes, atom bombs, etc.), which could eliminate the Jedi.
However, Marines usually aren't quick to launch explosives on their own positions (except in Nam, but that's a whole 'nother story). They might not take the first chance they get to waste the Jedi, just because the Jedi will be in very close proximity to dead and dying Marines.

Anywho, this battle'd be a doozy. Why the fuck isn't this a movie yet? I'd pay to see it.

Since we don't really have any examples of Jedi vs. armies other than Geonosis, howabout look at the Matrix as an example of superhuman prowess?
Neo and Trinity, both inferior in abilities to a Jedi (inferior reaction time, inferior speed, inferior leaping ability, lack of telekinesis, lack of telepathy, etc.) were able to effortlessly dispatch the militants who confronted them in the lobby of the government building.
The room was quite small, but against overwhelming odds, two superhumans mopped the floor with their conventionally-armed foes. I should think that Kenobi or Windu would fare better.

(and does anybody know why they couldn't deflect bullets with the Force? only a slight change in the projectile's course would be necessary to avert impact, and the ability to accurately deflect blaster bolts with a lightsabre takes much more precision and speed than recognizing and altering the courses of bullets. additionally, the energy requirements for altering the course of a bullet is definitely much lower than that for tossing a battle droid like a rag doll; so that can't be a problem. sure, they haven't done it, but it's definitely within the range of their abilities...)

[Robert Treder]

P.S. like it or not, in the game Jedi Outcast, Kyle Katarn is able to completely reverse the path of missiles fired at him. He not only changes the course so that it doesn't hit him, he actually turns it around in the air so that it flies away from him. This demonstrates a high degree of precision and speed with his telekinetic abilities.
But...I know a lot of people don't like Katarn, so take it or leave it.

[tharkûn]

That's not the same kind of clear and present danger as someone taking a shot at you; they blew up his ship but he wasn't in it at the time.
Is it stated that clear and present danger makes a difference?

Did you sleep through TPM? The Jedi do not have quick reflexes; they appear to have quick reflexes because they can sense things before they happen.
Whatever. Let's say they sense the threat at t0, the threat materializes at t1, and their reaction takes effect at t2. So long as t2 > t1 it doesn't matter if they know it before it happens, the gods themselves let them know its going to happen, or whatever it is FUNCTIONALLY EQUIVALENT to faster reflexes. If they can sense the threat and react before the threat materializes, then the ESP is actually something functionally superior to superhuman reflexes.

This is kill-or-be-killed. Stop committing the all-too-common "vs" debating trick of assuming that one side is clueless and wandering around aimlessly while the other side is on the attack.
Umm that's normally how snipers work. Good snipers don't let you know they are there until after you fall over with a bullet in you.

The sniper would need psychic powers in order to know where the Jedi is, while the Jedi is fully alert and aggressive as per the scenario, and would know where the sniper is even without having a direct line of sight.
Unless they look up the address of the Jedi, look up the iternary of the dignitary they are protecting, etc. All the initial scenario said was could the USMC kill a Jedi master. SOP for killing one damn important person is to send snipers to his house and wait for the perfect shot. I was treating the Jedi like a enemy general in that regard.

Is it fair? No. Is it the way the USMC would do it if they had to (barring airstrikes/artillery barrages)? Yes, it's exactly how they took out NVA generals.

A fair fight (which the USMC avoids like the plague ... as does any sensible military) is a completely different question, to which my answer is the Jedi master will survive as he will use stealth to get outside the marine perimetre. From there he can engage in long range force choking, sniping, etc. until the marines either leave or are all dead. Hell if the Jedi is so good with the force choke he need only kill the CO until the next one got the hint and ran away.

One or two men against a Jedi are toast. He doesn't even need weapons; he can easily kill them telekinetically from a distance.
Then what difference does a platoon, company or division make? The Jedi can just kill the CO until the next poor schmuck to assume the billet says, "Gee the previous 8 guys in charge were killed, perhaps I should withdraw before I get killed."

The Jedi would make himself almost impossible to track and attack, but he would not be able to take out a large group of Marines once they've set up a defensive perimeter.
If he can find a sniper team telepathically then he can easily find targets on the perimetre and snipe/force choke from the outside in. Snipers routinely attack into large groups and kill leaders. It's only the enemy's ability to track and attack that stops them from decimating large groups.

However, he won't be able to kill them either, and in a "vs" scenario, it is a victory to force the enemy to acknowledge your authority and flee.
Call that a victory if you like. Having all your officers force choked while you sit there and do nothing sounds like a real "acknowledgement of authority". Normally when the enemy can kill any member of your force at will you are known as "supressed" and he has the victory.

In a nutshell:
If the USMC gets the element of suprise, then they send in snipers on an unwitting target ... like happens to every unfortunate victims of snipers. Two men can kill the Jedi if his force telepathy/precognizance are not too close to omniscient and omnipotent.

If not then you need a large enough group for saturation fire, preferably artillerly or airstrikes.

If the USMC doesn't get the element of surprise then they are screwed. The Jedi will slip outside their perimetre and can then snipe/force choke in. Given his superior stealth abilities our Jedi master can keep on killing the marines until they retreat or he runs out of marines/time.

[Darth Wong]

Is it stated that clear and present danger makes a difference?

It is shown onscreen. They did not react to the destruction of the ship in time, but they did react to the kouhouns before they killed Amidala.

Whatever. Let's say they sense the threat at t0, the threat materializes at t1, and their reaction takes effect at t2. So long as t2 > t1 it doesn't matter if they know it before it happens, the gods themselves let them know its going to happen, or whatever it is FUNCTIONALLY EQUIVALENT to faster reflexes. If they can sense the threat and react before the threat materializes, then the ESP is actually something functionally superior to superhuman reflexes.

Which it is. Why do you find this so difficult to believe?

Umm that's normally how snipers work. Good snipers don't let you know they are there until after you fall over with a bullet in you.

Neither do poisonous worms, yet Jedi can sense those before they strike, with enough lead time to do something about it. And they don't even think, unlike a sniper.

All the initial scenario said was could the USMC kill a Jedi master.

Unless otherwise specified, it is unreasonable to grant an advantage of surprise to one side. If the thread asked "could the USMC kill a Jedi master while he's asleep", we wouldn't be arguing about this. Feel free to start another thread on that subject if you like.

A fair fight (which the USMC avoids like the plague ... as does any sensible military) is a completely different question, to which my answer is the Jedi master will survive as he will use stealth to get outside the marine perimetre. From there he can engage in long range force choking, sniping, etc. until the marines either leave or are all dead. Hell if the Jedi is so good with the force choke he need only kill the CO until the next one got the hint and ran away.

Unless they can get an idea of his location and drop mortar and artillery fire on him. Also, it is doubtful that he can keep doing that indefinitely without tiring.

[Howedar]

In an urban environment, I'd say somewhere between a platoon and company-sized force would take care of him.
I figure the Jedi would cut through Marine after Marine until a sizeable amount of explosives were able to be concentrated on his location. This might take a while, because the Jedi will obviously be able to stalk his prey much more efficiently than the Marines. All you Marine-apologists might get offended by that notion, but remember: telepathy. It's a bitch.

Jedi aren't telepathic in the normal sense. They have limited telepathic suggestive power, and thats about it.

[tharkûn]

It is shown onscreen. They did not react to the destruction of the ship in time, but they did react to the kouhouns before they killed Amidala.
Okay, fine, that's why I ask ... conceeded.


Which it is. Why do you find this so difficult to believe?
Because I don't recall any particularly good examples. Plus the fact that they are explicitly stated to appear to be functionally equivelent to superhuman reflex in TMP. I'm not going to press the issue ... you are more likely to know than I.

Unless otherwise specified, it is unreasonable to grant an advantage of surprise to one side. If the thread asked "could the USMC kill a Jedi master while he's asleep", we wouldn't be arguing about this. Feel free to start another thread on that subject if you like.
I always assume the iniator gets the element of the surprise. If the question is reversed, could a Jedi kill a platoon of marines, then he gets the advantage of surprise. If you are on defense you have to assume that enemy will try to hit when your pants are down, a lone man cannot protect against every eventuality 24/7.

Unless they can get an idea of his location and drop mortar and artillery fire on him. Also, it is doubtful that he can keep doing that indefinitely without tiring.
And how would they do that? Jedi's should make excellent snipers (give their ability to make reflect kills with sabers ... that requires far more control) so the marines will be looking at one shot kills with zip in ability to see muzzle flash. Given that our Jedi can make hash out of 2 man sniper teams they can't kill him that way.

Of course the real kicker is the force choke. In TESB Vader force chokes Admiral Ossel without the good Admiral even being in a direct line of sight. How in hell do you even attempt to track a target who can kill you without a direct LOS and leaves no evidence pointing out which direction the attack came from.

If the marines even get close all the Jedi has to do is run away. The area the marines have to search goes up with the radius squared. If the Jedi runs merely twice as fast as the marines he can force them to search through 4 times as much area. It would be the poor marines sent to track him that would suffer from lack of nourishment/sleep ... not the Jedi master.

[Darth Wong]

I always assume the iniator gets the element of the surprise. If the question is reversed, could a Jedi kill a platoon of marines, then he gets the advantage of surprise.

Yes and no. I would assume that the Marines have a defensive perimeter set up and are expecting some sort of attack. If someone were to assume that they were living in barracks on a military base during peacetime and had no inkling whatsoever of an attack, that would be just terribly unfair. I would never concoct such a grossly weighted scenario.

If you are on defense you have to assume that enemy will try to hit when your pants are down, a lone man cannot protect against every eventuality 24/7.

Which is why we should try not to handicap one side, and assume that both sides are alert and aware of the other's presence and intent, if not his precise location.

And how would they do that? Jedi's should make excellent snipers (give their ability to make reflect kills with sabers ... that requires far more control) so the marines will be looking at one shot kills with zip in ability to see muzzle flash. Given that our Jedi can make hash out of 2 man sniper teams they can't kill him that way.

If we assume that the Jedi pulls out all the stops and uses any weapon that will get the job done instead of sticking to his lightsabre, a Jedi still has no power to reduce the muzzle flash of his weapon, or eliminate the Marines' ability to estimate the direction from which the bullet came. It would be even easier with a blaster rifle, which has a highly visible tracer. They can then drop artillery and mortar fire on his general location.

Of course the real kicker is the force choke. In TESB Vader force chokes Admiral Ossel without the good Admiral even being in a direct line of sight. How in hell do you even attempt to track a target who can kill you without a direct LOS and leaves no evidence pointing out which direction the attack came from.

True enough, but as I said, I suspect there are limitations to how often a Jedi can use that before he wears down. He could kill a LOT of Marines before he runs out of juice (the power required to break someone's neck or choke him to death is far lower than the power required to disable a metallic battle droid), as I've said since the beginning, but this doesn't mean he's got endless reserves.

If the marines even get close all the Jedi has to do is run away. The area the marines have to search goes up with the radius squared. If the Jedi runs merely twice as fast as the marines he can force them to search through 4 times as much area. It would be the poor marines sent to track him that would suffer from lack of nourishment/sleep ... not the Jedi master.

Hey, I'm not saying that the Marines wouldn't get hurt; I'm just saying that as the numbers increase, the Jedi would eventually get overwhelmed. Most certainly by the time you've got a full company, he would not have the strength to Force-choke them all, and they'd have so much firepower that they could flatten the whole area he's in once they have an idea of his location.

Mind you, it depends on the ROE. If they're in civilian territory, they have orders not to use indiscriminate area-effect weapons, and the Jedi is willing to use sniper weapons, it would be a whole lot worse. Force-assisted marksmanship would be a scary thing.

[tharkûn]

Yes and no. I would assume that the Marines have a defensive perimeter set up and are expecting some sort of attack. If someone were to assume that they were living in barracks on a military base during peacetime and had no inkling whatsoever of an attack, that would be just terribly unfair. I would never concoct such a grossly weighted scenario.
If you want a specific engagement scenario ... specify. Otherwise you have two choices to plan for:
1. The most likely.
2. The worst case.

In the first, the most likely is that the Jedi is in an urban enivorment and goes about some sort of routine.

In the latter the Jedi has been preemptively sent to kill you with all the requisite information ... you are screwed.

For the most likely scenario the USMC sends out two snipers (maybe six) and hopes to get the drop on the Jedi. This may or may not work depending on if the Jedi can be taken by surprise by the snipers. I'm conceeding defeat here on grounds I have nothing for evidence to say this would be the case.

For the worst case scenario the Jedi comes with a sniper rifle ... or just decides to steal one. He uses superior speed/stealth to get outside your perimetre and begins capping marines one by one, following the time honored tradition of shoot and scoot.

a Jedi still has no power to reduce the muzzle flash of his weapon, or eliminate the Marines' ability to estimate the direction from which the bullet came.
Seeing the muzzle flash on the first shot is VERY unlikely with the first shot. Attachments can be improvised to reflect (deflect?) it into the ground. The real reason the Jedi is such a good shot is he is a GARUNTEED one shot kill. Most snipers have to reaquire the target to be sure they hit the mark, its how the average creeps up to 1.3 shots per kill. If they miss they need to take a second shot. Some snipers fire two shots before the first hits. It is normally the second shot for which the muzzleflash is detected. Unless the marines are running with IR detection ... forget muzzleflash with one shot kills. By the time the unfortunate target drops dead he's already on the move.

As for the bullet direction ... go for a head shot (hell that ESP should come in handy, neh?) by the time people remember which way the unfortunate SOB was facing the Jedi master is long gone. Crappy NVA snipers could take potshots at whole USMC companies for WEEKS (and on a REGULAR SCHEDULE, go read up on six o'clock charlie) and the company couldn't catch them ... even with trained snipers counter-sniping.

True enough, but as I said, I suspect there are limitations to how often a Jedi can use that before he wears down. He could kill a LOT of Marines before he runs out of juice (the power required to break someone's neck or choke him to death is far lower than the power required to disable a metallic battle droid), as I've said since the beginning, but this doesn't mean he's got endless reserves.
So he takes an hour, runs away and goes to sleep. It will take the marines 4 hours to search for his position, by which time he is recharged and ready to kill.

Hey, I'm not saying that the Marines wouldn't get hurt; I'm just saying that as the numbers increase, the Jedi would eventually get overwhelmed. Most certainly by the time you've got a full company, he would not have the strength to Force-choke them all, and they'd have so much firepower that they could flatten the whole area he's in once they have an idea of his location.
They only shot the marines have is to flatten the area at the beginning. Once he gets at his extreme range he can kill you at will. Marines can go for a preemptive snipe, saturation fire of his general area, or bending over to get raped.

If the Jedi let's his general area be known I think he's already down as stupid. All he has to do is stay unobserved and pick em off. After the first 5 minutes of attack he is the agressor and makes the rules.

Force-assisted marksmanship would be a scary thing.
Try nigh to unstopable. Modern snipers can elude entire companies and SOP for killing a sniper is to call in arty on his ass. Your best shot at detecting a sniper is one the occassions where he fires twice ... that doesn't happen with Jedi master level of control. If you don't have a rough idea where to look for the muzzle flash (normally by hearing the first shot) and you don't have the equipment (IR/sonic triangulation) ... you are simply screwed.

For any number of marines above six, their only shot at killing the Jedi is to get his general area and go for saturation fire. I contend nothing but luck will give them his general position. Even crap NVA snipers could elude USMC companies.

[Lord of the Farce]

Because the Jedi's goal is to wipe them out (all of them), he will eventually have to get close to every single one of them at one point or another. This is due to the fact that Jedi don't seem to be fond of ranged weapons (unless we're talking about Katarn).

Actually, many "modern" Jedi (aka NJO Jedi Knights) seems to have no problems whatsoever carrying and using ranged weapons of various types, just that they prefer to use their lightsabre when up close against their Yuuzhan Vong opponents.

A reasonably dense formation of Marines would take the Jedi a fair amount of time and concentration to deal with, if he doesn't just collapse the ceiling on them or choke them all to death. This could provide the Marines the opportunity to rain down a bunch o' bombs (hand grenades, rifle grenades, mortars, towed artillery, Harrier strikes, atom bombs, etc.), which could eliminate the Jedi.

How about yanking the pins of a few of the marines' grenades when they are close together? That can't be good for their health.

[Robert Treder]

Jedi aren't telepathic in the normal sense. They have limited telepathic suggestive power, and thats about it.

Jedi have pretty good telepathic suggestive power...Obi-Wan was able to influence a squad of stormtroopers to allow him to pass in Mos Eisley. I shouldn't think that the average Marine would be that much less susceptable to this Force-suggestion than stormtroopers.
Jedi also have receptive telepathy. Remember that Palpatine was able to finish Amidala's sentence for her (which could be done by a normal person, but it was clearly a literary device to indicate Palpatine's Force-sensitivity). Obi-Wan was also able to sense the destruction of Alderaan through what seemed to be a form of telepathy.

But even worse for the Marines would be the precognitive spidey-sense. Jedi see and react before things happen, which puts the damper on surprises, unless those surprises are perpetrated by other Force-users who cloud the spidey-sense (e.g. Obi-Wan's execution of Maul).

[Lord of the Farce]

On Force users and actual telepathy, don't forget the ROTJ scene where Vader dug out the knowledge about Leia being another Skywalker from Luke's mind.

[Robert Treder]

Or ESB, when Luke called out for Leia with the Force, and she heard him and knew where he was. Also, Luke and Vader hold a conversation through telepathy during the final scene in which the Falcon is running from the Executor.

[Durandal]

Because the Jedi's goal is to wipe them out (all of them), he will eventually have to get close to every single one of them at one point or another. This is due to the fact that Jedi don't seem to be fond of ranged weapons (unless we're talking about Katarn).

Actually, many "modern" Jedi (aka NJO Jedi Knights) seems to have no problems whatsoever carrying and using ranged weapons of various types, just that they prefer to use their lightsabre when up close against their Yuuzhan Vong opponents.
How about yanking the pins of a few of the marines' grenades when they are close together? That can't be good for their health.

Or just yank the pins from every grenade on every marine. I'm fairly certain that Yoda has that kind of power. He was able to construct his home on Dagobah through only using the Force, and Luke was able to do the same with one of Darth Vader's castles. Jedi are obviously capable of very fine control.

[NecronLord]

Actually, many "modern" Jedi (aka NJO Jedi Knights) seems to have no problems whatsoever carrying and using ranged weapons of various types, just that they prefer to use their lightsabre when up close against their Yuuzhan Vong opponents.

I seem to remeber that Katarn did a stint as combat trainer at the academy