GW/WH40K modelling/gaming discussion thread

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2006-01-25 02:23am

This thread is for discussing any questions or ideas related to modelling or tabletop gaming, particularly in WH40K.

One question I had was, what are the sets that come with extra legs?
I don't just mean marine sets, but anything that comes with extra legs would be nice to buy for conversions.

Are there any alternatives to legs? Since every sprue these days comes with extra heads, arms and torsos, it is only a lack of leg parts that keeps us from making the most of our extras.
I've tried using putty (clay, actually) to make extras, but they never look quite right. Another tactic I've taken is to use the four-pronged "roundy base" sprues and use those (and other sprue parts) to make marines with four augmetic legs, but they tend to look clunky. Another idea I had was using the chassis of EPIC-scale hydras as augmetic treads or piles of "goop" as tentacles for a chaos marine.

Would conversions like these be playable in a game? How many points would be wasted on them for no real return?

BTW, I got the idea for this when I read Utsanomiko's Birfday Thread in testing.

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2006-01-25 10:48am

Well, to answer your first question: yes, there is an alternative. You could always recast the legs in resin, but I'm not entirely sure it's legal. You're probably stuck buying more minis, which is exactly what GW wants. Expensive hobby and all.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2006-01-25 12:11pm

As far as I understand it, anything you made yourself or was made by GW is Tournament Legal, which is the only place anyone really cares about this stuff anyway. Using figures from rival companies is, understandably, frowned upon.

Of course, this only matters at Official GW Occasions™, and many a converted 40k army sports figures from such lines as Warmachine and, as I understand it, VOID.

Of course, the other option is to order more legs from GW Direct Sales.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-01-26 03:59am

devestators and assualt marines have 1 unique leg pose per pack......

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2006-01-26 05:22pm

*writes that down* Thanks for the tip.

So, what is everyone's opinion on mould lines on blades? Do you leave them there, knowing that they'll create a "shadow" when the model is painted, or do you file them off, even though it means dulling the blade horrifically? Or is there a third option?

Also, do you base and them prime/undercoat your models, or undercoat and then base them? And if it's the latter, what do you use? Colored sand? Static Grass?

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-01-26 06:31pm

While I'm not experienced with 40K models, it occurs to me that with blades you could carefully file them as though you're trying to sharpen 'em... this wouldn't work with blades that have engraved letters, of course, but it'd work for most, I believe.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-01-26 06:55pm

Call me a heretic, but I don't base my figures with flock or sand or anything. I rarely even paint the base, since most of them are green once I'm done anyways.

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-01-27 12:19am

Best advice I can give is to get friendly with your local GW staff. They have boxes of bits like you wouldn't believe and they seldom care about a few extra plastic anythings.

As for cleaning a model, always do it right. File off the lines really gently with a knife or if absolutely necessary resharpen the blade.

My personal choice for bases depends entirely on what I'm painting. There's no set way.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-01-27 04:00pm

With blades if its a metal figure, I just undercoat the figure (spray), then scrape the upper layer off the blade with a modelling knife, taking of the undercoat and the orignal dulling layer, leaving a shiny metal blade!
For bases, I've never been a big fan of any particular detail on them , but for GW events you have to have at least flock, so usually I just paint them green, then sprinkle flock and static grass on.
For tournaments, the rules are that all models must either be Games Workshop, or be made of a majority GW parts. You can use non-GW parts, but only a small amount of them ,say a weapon or somesuch, it can't be non GW with a boltgun on for example. This is odd, because months ago in White Dwarf they ran an article on an ork army, and for its centrepiece it had a toy dumper truck that had been orkified, and so was not GW original.
Those ideas you have, depending on how well they are done, they will either be pretty good or awful, I have tried on occasion to do a few conversions of my own, mostly without success. As far as the rules allowing them go, if its supposed to represent a chaos space marine with a heavy bolter, and you model is some goo with a choas marine body on top it won't do. BUT if it's say this four legged thing you talk about, with a chaos marine upper body, and armed with a heavy bolter, then that should be ok. Generally It's just the weapon that matters, but for playing in store I have sometimes played a marine with a plasma gun, and said to my opponent 'thats a heavy bolter'. As long as you say so beforehand, and they agree, its ok.
For tank conversions, I recommend making little raked pits in the plastic with a knife, but don't penetrate, then when you paint, paint that area black for charring, with some scorching going towards the back of the vehicle from the crater. If its an Imperium vehicle, putting stuff on it from the Imperial Infrantrymans Uplifting Primer can look good, then maybe just writing die heretic or something to that extent on the barrel of the primary weapon!
For chaos, some heads on spikes work, a gaming buddy of mine actually chained a carefully posed space marine to the front of his rhino, which looked very menacing. Another guy put his daemon prince on top of a wrecked landspeeder on a scenic base. Not good for tight spaces, but very cool.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-01-27 04:03pm

I would imagine there is more leniency with Orks, given their... unique view on battlefield technology. As long as it's obviously Orky.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2006-01-27 07:57pm

Here's a question about game mechanics. Suppose I have a squad carrying missile or grenade launchers. What are the rules regarding the use of different ammunition types? Would I have to say ahead of time "these guys are carrying kraks" and stick to that, or could I decide which to use before each firing?

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2006-01-27 08:00pm

Missile & Grenade launchers carry both Frag (Plasma for Eldar) and Krak rounds. However, you have to choose which type of round to fire each turn.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-01-27 08:57pm

here's a stupid question, but typical would normal DoW(Winter assault) SM squad (9 (or 10?) marines with 2(or 3) Heavy Bolters, 2 Plasma Guns (or 1 rocket launcher) and sergeant with Plasma pistol and Power fist) be in the table top?

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2006-01-27 09:13pm

You can have a Sergeant and between 4 and 9 Space Marines in a Tac Squad. They can carry up to one heavy weapon (heavy bolter, multi-melta, missile launcher, lascannon or plasma cannon) and up to one assault weapon (flamer, meltagun, or plasma gun).

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-01-27 10:54pm

Lord Revan wrote:here's a stupid question, but typical would normal DoW(Winter assault) SM squad (9 (or 10?) marines with 2(or 3) Heavy Bolters, 2 Plasma Guns (or 1 rocket launcher) and sergeant with Plasma pistol and Power fist) be in the table top?

With the Veteran Sergeat option, almost. Less heavy weapons. The DoW SM Squad is a combination of Tac and Devastator squads.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-01-28 05:21pm

Extra leg bits can be found for sale, but good luck snagging them for a reasonable price. Same goes for sets of assault arms. I find myself usually stopping at a point to say "you know, another 10-15 bucks, and I could buy the entire kit." They're good if you know you really just could use a few more specific parts, but I'm touching them untill I start expanding.

I don't have any specific painting/modeling questions just yet, although I got some silly ones about the Assault phase of the game that cropped up in my last Combat Patrol test game.

Am I right in thinking it's impossible to fall back from a lost assault on a successful morale roll? Falling back is usually a bad thing (especially if you're vulnerable to a sweeping advance), but when a whole mob of Orks charges with a Waaagh! into 8 Marines, I'd find it handy if the remaining four could get the hell out of there and gain as much distance, rather than get massacred in the next round. That's probably why I recall only select units being able to fall back when desired.

So my second thought was how could my nearby marine squad help out. I know a unit can charge and engage two units, provided it can reach both. But can a second unit join an assault, even once they've counded losses and piled in? I can't fire into a unit locked in combat, but joing in the melee certainly would help with inflicting casualties and avoiding a wipe, that's for sure.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-01-28 06:24pm

Utsanomiko wrote:Am I right in thinking it's impossible to fall back from a lost assault on a successful morale roll? Falling back is usually a bad thing (especially if you're vulnerable to a sweeping advance), but when a whole mob of Orks charges with a Waaagh! into 8 Marines, I'd find it handy if the remaining four could get the hell out of there and gain as much distance, rather than get massacred in the next round. That's probably why I recall only select units being able to fall back when desired.

So my second thought was how could my nearby marine squad help out. I know a unit can charge and engage two units, provided it can reach both. But can a second unit join an assault, even once they've counded losses and piled in? I can't fire into a unit locked in combat, but joing in the melee certainly would help with inflicting casualties and avoiding a wipe, that's for sure.

There are "voluntary fallback" rules somewhere, IIRC, though they may be 3rd Edition and thus of questionable value. At any rate, Marines have little to worry about from sweeping advances thanks to And They Shall Know No Fear, although in this scenario they'd take an extra wound or two due to No Retreat!.

If the Orks charged you, that means it was their turn. Thus, after all Ork assault moves are made and a round of all current engaged assaults are resolved, it becomes the Marines' movement phase. If your Marines survived the initial assault round, then when it comes full circle to your assault phase you may charge with your second squad, and the combat is then resolved as normal but with extra hitting power on your side. Then it's the Orks' movement phase, and so on.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-01-28 07:58pm

So you're saying I could, in fact, charge an enemy locked in combat with another of my units in the assault phase, thereby adding marines from the new unit to the total number of my units engaged in combat with the Orks. That'll be useful.

Although in that case, I didn't have the proximity to move in and charge; the last of the Orks consolidated towards my last squad. I did however instead use my second-to-last turn to move away from the unit, preventing any assault untill after my next turn, in which I tore them up with heavy bolter and plasma fire.

(Speaking of questionable 3rd ed rules, the Blood Angels Veteran Assault Marine stats suck. 28 pts/model, more expensive grenade/meltabomb costs than non-vets, and the only difference is the option to add extra special and more terminator honors. And the 4.0 update FAQ touches none of this. I'll stick with 4th Edition Assault Marines and Veterans untill the mess is sorted out.)

But anywho, 'tis a jolly good game. I hope this town will have an active player base this spring.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-01-30 01:41am

Finally got my brother to join me in a game. Same combat patrol setup + paper stand-ins as usual. Ran smoother now that I had some extra colored dice and had less counting and rule-checking to do. He seemed to be confident of the casaulties he could dish out from pot-shots, using the Marines I'd given him, untill my 4th turn, where his command squad was met on top of a hill by a 15-Ork Waaagh! charge, which took down half his unit.

The remaining three predictably passed their morale check. My brother did not; he forfieted on his subsequent turn. Seemed to have fun, although I'll probably never get him to play against Orks again.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-01-30 02:41am

Yeah, I had a lot of fun, but those Orks are bastards!!

I'll probably play against them again, but at least now I know to stay the hell away from them.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-01-30 01:47pm

I'd say Ork Speed Freaks are probably one of the best armies available in 40K, even though I hate orks. IIRC, the top 6 of the UK Grand Tournament in 2004 was places 2-5 Space Marines, first place speed freaks!
If they get first turn its 24" movement in their truks, then you may get a chance to shoot one or two, but a good player won't give you that opportunity. Orks turn two, they move another 12-24" and are in assault range! They are MAD!
I have been able to defeat them before, but it took a lot of concentrated heavy weapon fire (which I have a lot of) to destroy enough of the truks so my opponent simply surrendered after he had about 1 or 2 left.

I'm convinced that the best army lists lie in the little known special armies like Eldar denominations (harlequins?) and other legal but almost never used lists. My favourite is probably the Imperial Guard Armoured Company (tanks, tanks, more tanks, a chimaera...and some more tanks, and then a baneblade! Oh and of course, one or two of those tank hunters with a str 10, ap 2, ordnance blast, no scatter weapon! Say goodbye to anything ever!)

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-01-30 02:23pm

Everyone and their mother knows how destructive (beardy) 3rd Ed. Armored Companies were. I haven't been "in the scene" since 4th Edition's release, but I can only assume its Armored Companies are still pretty insane.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2006-01-30 02:44pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Everyone and their mother knows how destructive (beardy) 3rd Ed. Armored Companies were. I haven't been "in the scene" since 4th Edition's release, but I can only assume its Armored Companies are still pretty insane.

There have been some changes made.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/imperialgu ... mpanies/1/

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2006-01-30 05:23pm

Kojiro wrote:Best advice I can give is to get friendly with your local GW staff. They have boxes of bits like you wouldn't believe and they seldom care about a few extra plastic anythings.
.

How friendly are we talking about here? I am a married man.

Seriously, though, they are allowed to give away spare bitz?

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-01-30 06:38pm

I'm busy planning my disco themed Goblin Blood Bowl Team.

The Little Green Funk. They were previously represented by unmodified Moria gobbos from the LotR range, but I've gotten the gobbo warband box and am now just in desperate need of as many Space Marine shoulder pauldrons as I can get.