A 5thI planetiod in Starwars.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2002-12-06 09:00am

If a random generic(read no character shields) 5thI Terrian class planetiod, with a full crew (IIRC ~100,000) is plonked into the StarWars universe it the following time:

1) Post episode 2,
a) close to Coruscant.
b) not close to Coruscant.

2) During episode 4, Same system as rebel base
a) Before the 1st deathstar appears
b) Just after the 1st deathstar appears

3) During episode 6, in the Ender system
a) Before the rebal fleet arrives
b) After the rebal fleet arrives

The reason for the planetiod appear so close to were the action is, is otherwise it could take months/years for the Imperials to notice them.

Note: Galactic Basic = English by Act of Plot. So the 5ThI people can understand the Imps and dont have to learn a new language.

How would the 5ThI planetiod crew react to the new universe & how would the people from SW react?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-06 09:25am

It's Imperial Terra not Terran.

And in all of the situations it would depend on the crew. I could see them going either way. And who ever is on the other side is going to get a major ass kicking.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-12-06 10:26am

Once again, the lack of hard knowledge on how the two universes technologies interact make it difficult to say.
As a side note, my stats for Achuultani main fleet warheads go from 10 gigaton omnidirectional(absolute low-end) to 200 gigaton unidirectional(what I consider to be the highest reasonable number that could apply). Any disputation?

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-12-06 10:50am

Star Wars has enough firepower to beat a planetoid, but they would have problems to get into range.

The 5th Imperium use FTL weapons ( beam and missiles ), have incredible fast and agile sublightdrives ( .7 c within seconds to minutes ), can shoot down .7c missiles at more than 10 lightseconds with beams, use missiles that create artificial black holes and try to get out of hyperspace INSIDE your ship ! The 5th Imperium has good ECM and stealth systems, they have real time sensors with the range of lighthours to lightyears. And of course they have both real space FTL engines ( Enchanach drive ) AND hyperspace engines ( slow compared to SW ).

SW would have to collect HUGE fleets with thousands ( better millions ) of ships and hope that they predict the planetoids evasion manouvers to use a microjump to get near it. But even then the reaction time of the 5th Imperiums computers might be too fast for SW to fire a turbolaser before being destroyed. It might even be possible for the planetoid to activate it's Enchanach drive before the TL hits...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-06 10:55am

If the Empire masses a fleet the planetoid could just go right trough it on E-drive. Getting rammed by a black hole would smash any Imp ships.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2002-12-06 11:32am

The Planetoid could dump it's factory complexes on an unihabitated planet, and then roam the galaxy.
Unless the Empire amasses a HUGe fleet, and manages to get the planetoid to stay, they could do bad things to it. But that's a big If...

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-12-06 11:38am

IIRC Imperial Terra's crew was eighty thousand.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-12-06 11:43am

Where do they have ftl beam weapons? That's the one thing you are mentioning that I can't remember seeing.
Every tactic that I seriously intend to use against Weber's planetoids automatically involves numerical superiority of at least thousands to one.
Still trying to get some sort of consensus on statistics too.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2002-12-06 12:02pm

consequences wrote:Where do they have ftl beam weapons? That's the one thing you are mentioning that I can't remember seeing.
Every tactic that I seriously intend to use against Weber's planetoids automatically involves numerical superiority of at least thousands to one.
Still trying to get some sort of consensus on statistics too.

Hyperbeams. They are FTL.
And you'll have a problem, trying to force battle on a planetoid. It can always coast out of battle using its drive...

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-12-06 12:06pm

Has anybody ever noticed that the first thing we think of when two vultures meet is always "FIGHT!!!!"

It almost seems as though we have no consideration for other outcomes, like for example one side attempts to parley or something.

Just my 2 cents.

Judging from the feedback, the planetoid would win.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-12-06 12:07pm

I thought hyperbeams moved at light speed, and projected a target into hyper, oh well.
And I can micro jump to maintain engagement with a Planetoid, especially if I have the numerical advantage I want. Lets face it, if I didn't outnumber it ten thousand or more to one, I would just go home.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2002-12-06 12:21pm

consequences wrote:I thought hyperbeams moved at light speed, and projected a target into hyper, oh well.
And I can micro jump to maintain engagement with a Planetoid, especially if I have the numerical advantage I want. Lets face it, if I didn't outnumber it ten thousand or more to one, I would just go home.

Mmicrojumping won't help you.
Simply put, a Planetoid only remains in one real space position for 0.75 femto seconds (that was for Dahak, the newest generations of the drive were a bit more advanced).
How do you want to use microjumps to keep up with it? You are in Hyperspace during jumps, and you can't keep up with the planetoid in real space. And the effects on your ship if a planetoid using Enchanch drive close to you is another matter...

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-12-06 12:27pm

consequences wrote:Where do they have ftl beam weapons? That's the one thing you are mentioning that I can't remember seeing.
Every tactic that I seriously intend to use against Weber's planetoids automatically involves numerical superiority of at least thousands to one.
Still trying to get some sort of consensus on statistics too.

It's just easy...

they managed to kill missiles at 10 lightseconds distance, missiles that came with .8 c and were capable of evasion manouvers. In addition to this they mentioned that the beam weapons of 4th Empire / 5th Empire are gravitonic disruptors and many SciFi authors assume that graviton-beams propagate at c+...

I think it would be just impossible to kill something like a small missile a .8 c with on board ECM and evasion manouvers at 10+ lightseconds without a FTL beam.

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-12-06 12:28pm

consequences wrote:I thought hyperbeams moved at light speed, and projected a target into hyper, oh well.
And I can micro jump to maintain engagement with a Planetoid, especially if I have the numerical advantage I want. Lets face it, if I didn't outnumber it ten thousand or more to one, I would just go home.

all ships of the 4th/5th Imperium can detect ships emerging from hyperspace... and with the real time scanners AND their superb computers they would just blow up your ships before it can do any harm... or just would move out of the way of your beam with the Enchanach drive.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2002-12-06 12:34pm

HRogge wrote:
consequences wrote:I thought hyperbeams moved at light speed, and projected a target into hyper, oh well.
And I can micro jump to maintain engagement with a Planetoid, especially if I have the numerical advantage I want. Lets face it, if I didn't outnumber it ten thousand or more to one, I would just go home.
all ships of the 4th/5th Imperium can detect ships emerging from hyperspace... and with the real time scanners AND their superb computers they would just blow up your ships before it can do any harm... or just would move out of the way of your beam with the Enchanach drive.

Or just move on

It might scratch the paint a bit, but....

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2002-12-06 12:58pm

XaLEv wrote:IIRC Imperial Terra's crew was eighty thousand.

Knowing my luck it probable is...

HRogge, It takes the Enchanch drive 0.75 femtoseconds to cycle. They have realtime FTL sensors. A TL moves at maxium of light speed. The planetiod is piloted by an Uber fast computer with millisecond reaction times(this isnt musle twitch reaction like in humans but fully thinking out a plan of attack). If it takes a full millisecond for the computer to see & respond to TL, the TL would have need to be fired 1000Km from the planetiod for it to hit in a millisecond. However the planetiod can do 300C ?, in a millisecond they cover ~0.9 million km (3 lightseconds).

So, thousands of Stardestoryer microjumps into range <1000km to insure a direct hit. However, the jump in process takes more than a millisecond. Planetiod straight away moves to open some distance, the tidal force trash some of the closer ships. 2 milliseconds later, the planetiod opens up with its FTL beam weapons on the Starwars fleet. The planetiod can hold position for just under 3 seconds, till it needs to move away again.

Any one see any problems with that senario? Beyond the planetiod is only moving when it has to & effectively isnt using its 0.7C entireless drive system? Also assumes that the Enchanch drive is constaintly on standby.

If they dont use the Enchanch drive;
They move @ 0.7C away from the Starwars ships that just hyperspace in. The TL fire after ~2 seconds(can soem one post the fire rate?) exiting hyprespace. In that 2 seconds, the planetiod has moved 1.4 lightseconds, It will take the first light speed TL ~4.67 seconds to hit the planetiod asuming no evasive action.
The Formula for time required by the TL is:
Time(L) = L * 7 / 3
Were L is the lead time.
(original formual:T=0.7*L+0.7*T)
T(1)= 2.34 seconds
T(2)= 4.67 seconds
T(3)= 7 seconds
T(4)= 9.33 seconds

Basicly the Starwars side would have a really tough time actually hitting the PLanetiod. Due, to realspace drive systems (FTL & STL)

By the way, if SW Hyperdrive can be stopped cold by a 1G gravity well. The Enchanch drive will act like a Uber hyperspace inhibiter.

HRogge if your the same Hrogge on SB;
The Definition of a mole

Let's say that real clearly: one mole of ANYTHING contains 6.022 x 1023 entities.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-12-07 03:54pm

So your still assuming that Star Wars hyperspace is exactly the same as the Planetoids? Still waiting on evidence to support that conclusion please.
There is no proof that an Interdictor's grav wells are 1g, and since they have been used to push a ship at at least a couple of thousand Gs there is considerable evidence to the contrary.
Shooting at a planetoid would be a bitch, thats why I have always intended to use massed small craft kamikazes through hyperspace, carrying the largest warheads I can cram in.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-07 04:11pm

consequences wrote:So your still assuming that Star Wars hyperspace is exactly the same as the Planetoids? Still waiting on evidence to support that conclusion please.
There is no proof that an Interdictor's grav wells are 1g, and since they have been used to push a ship at at least a couple of thousand Gs there is considerable evidence to the contrary.
Shooting at a planetoid would be a bitch, thats why I have always intended to use massed small craft kamikazes through hyperspace, carrying the largest warheads I can cram in.

Something in SW hyperspace can't affect an object in realspace. You have to drop out first.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-12-07 04:16pm

Yes, but a 3000km planetoid would cause them to drop out of hyperspace right on top of it.

HRogge · Post by **HRogge** » 2002-12-07 05:36pm

consequences wrote:So your still assuming that Star Wars hyperspace is exactly the same as the Planetoids? Still waiting on evidence to support that conclusion please.

The 5th Imperium doesn't know A hyperspace, they know many different dimensions they call hyperspace.
Both SW and Dahak-style hyperspace use special drive fields to prevent the instant destruction of the ship. They both seem to be a real dimension, but gravity can create an interaction between both dimensions. SW hyperspace tech seems to be more advanced, so they have higher gravity limits and higher speed.

We KNOW the 5th Imperiums ships can scan multiple dimensions, all having similar attributes than the SW hyperspace...

What are your arguments that they are NOT able to scan SW hyperspace ships coming into real space ?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-07 06:25pm

consequences wrote:Yes, but a 3000km planetoid would cause them to drop out of hyperspace right on top of it.

The trick is going to hyperspace in such a manner that you would intercept the course of the tiod. That seems rather unlikely.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-12-07 06:35pm

You'd need a big fleet, Dahak was capable of vaporizing the Earth and an Imperial Terra class is at least 20 times more powerful pound for pound (and it's also at least 25% bigger so...)

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-12-07 06:47pm

SylasGaunt wrote:You'd need a big fleet, Dahak was capable of vaporizing the Earth and an Imperial Terra class is at least 20 times more powerful pound for pound (and it's also at least 25% bigger so...)

Dunno if vaporizing the Earth is neccesaril the same as scattering its mass though

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-12-07 06:59pm

Well Dahak himself used the word vaporize.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-12-07 08:29pm

I believe I have already stated that I wouldn't fight unless I had a big fleet.
Its already been established that you can manuever in hyperspace, just have the kamikazes zipping all over the area.
My arguments against them being able to scan Star Wars ships as they come in are mainly due to the speed the Star Wars ship would be moving, at least 1000 times that of anything the 'toids would ever have seen before, and lasting ridiculously low fractions of a second. Its debatable if the 'toids would even be scanning at such a high hyperspace band without prior knowledge of Star Wars, why would they waste time and effort on an area they "know" isn't a threat.
Just as a note, a Star Wars force that doesn't know what they're dealing with is fucked, almost regardless of their numerical superiority. If I didn't know exactly what was coming at me, I would be fucked too, because I might not recognise what I was dealing with before it was too late, and the manueverability disparity is truly ridiculous.