I got a question regarding R&D in the SW civilization.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2006-02-02 08:20pm

I have a question regarding R&D (Research & Development) on the SW civilization however given the restrictions on pics and the fact that one picture is worth a thousand words I'm going to try linking to an already made thread on my own boards. I hope this is acceptable.
http://www.1-2-free-forums.com/mf/starw ... 1.html#941

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2006-02-02 08:36pm

Teh OPzors wrote:Warning: mysql_connect(): Too many connections in /home/momotan/public_html/mf/config/multiforums.config.inc.php on line 10
Unable to connect to database on 'localhost' with user 'elman'
Please check your settings in multiforums.config.inc.php!

Quite a post, my good PunkMaister.

AKA your bo- hey, wait, nevermind, it only took 5 times and several minutes, but it finally loaded.

B) is correct. Star Wars has reached a level of technological stagnation and/or the pinnacle of possible developmeant. The Taris BDZ explosions seen were small, yes, but could have easily been created by Anti-Fighter Turrets against a shielded or unobtainium sort of metal.

Are you seriously that dense, to compare the Death Star with a single ship's turret shot hitting a planet? Obviously Star Wars firepower, just like real firepower, has scales. Or do you expect US LAWs or Flak Guns to fire high kiloton level nuclear explosives? After all, if the US had nuclear weaponry, obviously a rocket hitting a tank would do a hell of a lot more than just disable one- it'd peal back the entire city!

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-02-02 08:40pm

R&D in SW involves building a research center, then spending nova crystals on new technologies. You also gotta build a barracks and an airbase to advance to the next tech level.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-02-02 08:42pm

000 wrote:R&D in SW involves building a reasearch center, then spending nova crystals on new technologies. You also gotta build a barracks and an airbase to advance to the next tech level.

Oh you jerk! I was drinking rootbeer when I read that!

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-02-02 08:43pm

000 wrote:R&D in SW involves building a reasearch center, then spending nova crystals on new technologies. You also gotta build a barracks and an airbase to advance to the next tech level.

Sarcasm. Detector. Exploding. Call. Ambulance.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-02-02 09:09pm

RJL... Roy J. Lores... is it possible?

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2006-02-02 09:23pm

MRDOD wrote:
Teh OPzors wrote:Warning: mysql_connect(): Too many connections in /home/momotan/public_html/mf/config/multiforums.config.inc.php on line 10
Unable to connect to database on 'localhost' with user 'elman'
Please check your settings in multiforums.config.inc.php!
Quite a post, my good PunkMaister.

AKA your bo- hey, wait, nevermind, it only took 5 times and several minutes, but it finally loaded.

B) is correct. Star Wars has reached a level of technological stagnation and/or the pinnacle of possible developmeant. The Taris BDZ explosions seen were small, yes, but could have easily been created by Anti-Fighter Turrets against a shielded or unobtainium sort of metal.

Are you seriously that dense, to compare the Death Star with a single ship's turret shot hitting a planet? Obviously Star Wars firepower, just like real firepower, has scales. Or do you expect US LAWs or Flak Guns to fire high kiloton level nuclear explosives? After all, if the US had nuclear weaponry, obviously a rocket hitting a tank would do a hell of a lot more than just disable one- it'd peal back the entire city!

OK... Did you actually read the linked thread? I never suggested that.
I did place imagesd of both the destruction of Aldeeran and the destruction of Taris to compare how far along the weaponry had evolved in 4000 years..
For one thing when Taris was BZed if it casn even be called that. The cityscape was rendered to absoluite rubble and reportedly there were survivors...
Now again my point is that those blasts are not 200GT blasts like those an imperial Star Destroyer would produce.
Had that been the case the whole planet's surface would have been turned to slag and clearly it was not.

One could say it was because they were holding back. Well they had absolutely no reason too specially when Lord Malak especifically told them that to "wipe the miserable planet from the face of the galaxy" and considering that he was a s forgiving as Darth Vader was when it came to not following his orders. Maybe even less so!
I have that game and I could provide any proof you desire.
But I think that the mith that there's no R&D of any kind in the SW civilzation is prewtty much busted.
Another thing if that's the case how would they deal with a palgue that appears in their midst if they have no R&D of any kind going?

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2006-02-02 09:31pm

PunkMaister wrote: OK... Did you actually read the linked thread? I never suggested that.
I did place imagesd of both the destruction of Aldeeran and the destruction of Taris to compare how far along the weaponry had evolved in 4000 years..

And it hasn't. Light guns 5000 years ago in Star Wars are practically the same as light guns at 0 ABY. What you're doing is comparing heavier, ISD mounted guns compared to Malak's flagship, which has comparatively smaller firepower both per gun and probably total.

For one thing when Taris was BZed if it casn even be called that. The cityscape was rendered to absoluite rubble and reportedly there were survivors...

So? Artillery barrages leave survivors, too. Taris wasn't BDZed if there were survivors or even rubble left at all, ergo it wasn't a BDZ attempt. If a US airstrike leaves a city in rubble but it still has survivors, would you deny the US' capability to also nuke a city and make it into a blasted parking lot? What makes you think Taris is the pinnacle of KOTOR-era firepower?

Now again my point is that those blasts are not 200GT blasts like those an imperial Star Destroyer would produce.
Had that been the case the whole planet's surface would have been turned to slag and clearly it was not.

Quite true, unless you are implying that a single 200GT shot would BDZ a planet's surface (which it would not). Too bad it's still untrue that all Star Wars ships at that time period could not mount 200GT Heavy Turbolasers.

One could say it was because they were holding back. Well they had absolutely no reason too specially when Lord Malak especifically told them that to "wipe the miserable planet from the face of the galaxy" and considering that he was a s forgiving as Darth Vader was when it came to not following his orders. Maybe even less so!

Of course, because "Wipe the planet from the galaxy" means to spend days blasting it into a molten pool instead of just nuking every single population center and declaring 99% casualties, mission achieved.

I have that game and I could provide any proof you desire.
But I think that the mith that there's no R&D of any kind in the SW civilzation is prewtty much busted.
Another thing if that's the case how would they deal with a palgue that appears in their midst if they have no R&D of any kind going?

Wow, that leap of logic was so far that Neo and Trinity are the only ones capable of reaching you now.

Star Wars doesn't have R&D on a major scale (excepting engineering feats like the DS and new applications of technology, as rare as those are, like Quantum Armor) because they have nothing left to research and develop.

Star Wars would likely respond to a plague like they undoubtedly do when a new one mutates into existance on a city planet or the like. Solve it through medical technology.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-02-02 09:33pm

Stark wrote:RJL... Roy J. Lores... is it possible?

Look up a Mike bit...and yes it is.

As for Punk's little assessment, much like much of his yabberings...about as intelligent as that rock over there.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-02-02 09:50pm

PunkMaister wrote: OK... Did you actually read the linked thread? I never suggested that.
I did place imagesd of both the destruction of Aldeeran and the destruction of Taris to compare how far along the weaponry had evolved in 4000 years..
For one thing when Taris was BZed if it casn even be called that. The cityscape was rendered to absoluite rubble and reportedly there were survivors...
Now again my point is that those blasts are not 200GT blasts like those an imperial Star Destroyer would produce.
Had that been the case the whole planet's surface would have been turned to slag and clearly it was not.

One could say it was because they were holding back. Well they had absolutely no reason too specially when Lord Malak especifically told them that to "wipe the miserable planet from the face of the galaxy" and considering that he was a s forgiving as Darth Vader was when it came to not following his orders. Maybe even less so!
I have that game and I could provide any proof you desire.

Ok, I'd like proof of heavy turrets on the Levithan. I want proof that it carries heavy turbolasers.

Oh wait, you won't provide that. Because it doesn't have them.

The Levithan is a dedicated Interdictor platform. That's where it throws its power, that's what its structure is dedicated to supporting. Not heavy weaponry.

The firepower we see employed agaisnt Tardis is entirely consistent with the light weapons ships carry to act in an artillery role. If you want to compare it, look at the damage done by those weapons and the damage done against the starfighters above the Death Star.

But I think that the mith that there's no R&D of any kind in the SW civilzation is prewtty much busted.

Because you made an apples to oranges comparison?

Another thing if that's the case how would they deal with a palgue that appears in their midst if they have no R&D of any kind going?

There is a difference between physics and engineering and basic healthcare you ignorant twat..

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-02-02 09:55pm

Ender wrote:Ok, I'd like proof of heavy turrets on the Levithan. I want proof that it carries heavy turbolasers.

Oh wait, you won't provide that. Because it doesn't have them.

The Levithan is a dedicated Interdictor platform. That's where it throws its power, that's what its structure is dedicated to supporting. Not heavy weaponry.

Yep. It only has 4 standard turbolasers (don't know where they're located)-- the ones firing on Taris are the 20 quad laser cannons.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2006-02-02 10:09pm

OK if heaqvy turbolasers existed at KOTR era why are they never observed throughtouit the entire game?
I finished it by the way

Why none of the capital shiips from either the Republic or Sith fleets are equipped with them if they existed at that period?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-02-02 10:14pm

PunkMaister wrote:OK if heaqvy turbolasers existed at KOTR era why are they never observed throughtouit the entire game?

How ,uch of the game do you spend up close and personal in pitched fleet battles? Oh wait, none.

I finished it by the way

Good for you, Looking back at it from your death bed that may end up being your only "accomplishment" in life.

Why none of the capital shiips from either the Republic or Sith fleets are equipped with them if they existed at that period?

How often do we get a good long look at the capital ships of that era? Guess that answers that question.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2006-02-02 10:14pm

PunkMaister wrote:OK if heaqvy turbolasers existed at KOTR era why are they never observed throughtouit the entire game?

Do you have any idea whatsoever how large a galaxy is? A single fleet, hell ten sector fleets- in Star Wars is a drop in a bucket the size of Alexander's Empire and the Mongol Khanates combined.

The fact that we didn't see Heavy Turbolasers in the game that barely shows any space battles at all specifically impacting on a planet doesn't change the fact that evidence points to them as having existed at that time.

We don't even see Heavy Turbolasers hitting planets (though we do see them during ship-to-ship combat) in the Star Wars Movies, either, but their firepower still exists.

Why none of the capital shiips from either the Republic or Sith fleets are equipped with them if they existed at that period?

Because they aren't designed for heavy ship-to-ship combat like the Imperial Star Destroyer or Executor-class are?

Because the designers wanted a larger number of smaller weapons?

Because it was more economically feasable for the commissioning power's resources to build smaller, less armed starships in larger quantities, instead of large ships of the line?

There are a multitude of reasons, any of which could be correct. Or, in my recollection of the Psuedoenglish parlance of your website, "Either Of Both Could Be Right".

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2006-02-02 10:25pm

MRDOD wrote:
PunkMaister wrote:OK if heaqvy turbolasers existed at KOTR era why are they never observed throughtouit the entire game?
Do you have any idea whatsoever how large a galaxy is? A single fleet, hell ten sector fleets- in Star Wars is a drop in a bucket the size of Alexander's Empire and the Mongol Khanates combined.

The fact that we didn't see Heavy Turbolasers in the game that barely shows any space battles at all specifically impacting on a planet doesn't change the fact that evidence points to them as having existed at that time.

We don't even see Heavy Turbolasers hitting planets (though we do see them during ship-to-ship combat) in the Star Wars Movies, either, but their firepower still exists.

Why none of the capital shiips from either the Republic or Sith fleets are equipped with them if they existed at that period?
Because they aren't designed for heavy ship-to-ship combat like the Imperial Star Destroyer or Executor-class are?

Because the designers wanted a larger number of smaller weapons?

Because it was more economically feasable for the commissioning power's resources to build smaller, less armed starships in larger quantities, instead of large ships of the line?

There are a multitude of reasons, any of which could be correct. Or, in my recollection of the Psuedoenglish parlance of your website, "Either Of Both Could Be Right".

What evidence is this that allegedly points to the existernce of heavy turbolasers at thst era?
As for battles are concerned there is one major battle at the end opf the game where the Star-Forge is destroyed and even here we dont witness any such heavy weaponry, not even when the capitol ships where throwing all they had at the Star Forge.
Now if the republic had such weaponry logically it would have used in that battle considering that it's very survival was at stake!

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-02-02 10:29pm

What evidence is this that allegedly points to the existernce of heavy turbolasers at thst era?
As for battles are concerned there is one major battle at the end opf the game where the Star-Forge is destroyed and even here we dont witness any such heavy weaponry, not even when the capitol ships where throwing all they had at the Star Forge.
Now if the republic had such weaponry logically it would have used in that battle considering that it's very survival was at stake!

How do you know that heavy turbolasers weren't used during that battle? It is entirely possible that they were used against the Star Forge's main array by that battle group of Republic Hammerheads.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2006-02-02 10:32pm

Noble Ire wrote:
What evidence is this that allegedly points to the existernce of heavy turbolasers at thst era?
As for battles are concerned there is one major battle at the end opf the game where the Star-Forge is destroyed and even here we dont witness any such heavy weaponry, not even when the capitol ships where throwing all they had at the Star Forge.
Now if the republic had such weaponry logically it would have used in that battle considering that it's very survival was at stake!
How do you know that heavy turbolasers weren't used during that battle? It is entirely possible that they were used against the Star Forge's main array by that battle group of Republic Hammerheads.

Because I finished the damn game, watched the game cutscenes and at no point the use of such weaponry can be observed. That is why?
I have vidcaps that I can provide if you need them...

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-02-02 10:34pm

PunkMaister wrote:
Noble Ire wrote:
What evidence is this that allegedly points to the existernce of heavy turbolasers at thst era?
As for battles are concerned there is one major battle at the end opf the game where the Star-Forge is destroyed and even here we dont witness any such heavy weaponry, not even when the capitol ships where throwing all they had at the Star Forge.
Now if the republic had such weaponry logically it would have used in that battle considering that it's very survival was at stake!
How do you know that heavy turbolasers weren't used during that battle? It is entirely possible that they were used against the Star Forge's main array by that battle group of Republic Hammerheads.
Because I finished the damn game, watched the game cutscenes and at no point the use of such weaponry can be observed. That is why?
I have vidcaps that I can provide if you need them...

Gosh, I wonder why a flotiilla of carriers and interdictors didn't have heavy weapons... what a mystery...

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-02-02 10:36pm

Because I finished the damn game, watched the game cutscenes and at no point the use of such weaponry can be observed. That is why?
I have vidcaps that I can provide if you need them...

Um, pray tell, how do you know that they were not heavy turbolaser bolts? It is entirely possible they would look different from those of Imperial ships, if by manufacture alone. So please, regail me on this method of determining the gigatonagge of a turbolaser bolt through sight alone.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-02-02 10:39pm

Yeah, the Sith fleet was made up of interdictors, and the Republic fleet of light troop transports.

Although the 'Endar Spire'-class starships *might* have heavy TLs, in the form of the two on each side of their bow... this is only speculation though based on their ROF and usage to take down the Star Forge.

Xess · Post by **Xess** » 2006-02-02 10:41pm

I scaled the Leviathan's guns at ~100 kT based on the fireball time on Taris' surface. That is of course the lower limit as I don't know how much energy went into the buildings or ground, but it's consistent with the anti-fighter weaponry present in other time periods.

I've also come to the conclusion that the Ravager from KOTOR 2 is more likely a KOTOR-era battleship. It's at least twice the size of the Leviathan and has less wasted volume in the "shark bite" design. We never see its guns fire so it could very well have HTLs.

As for the Republic's ships like the Hammerhead, they strike me more as the only starships they have with the needed hyperdrive range or speed to deal with the Sith fleet's outer rim attacks. We know that the Core world's were as yet untouched by the Sith and a big part of the Sith battle plan was getting a fleet large enough to take the Core (talking to the Sith soldiers on Manaan and elsewhere). We also know that influential core worlds like Kuat maintain their own self defense fleets, I see no reason why this wouldn't be true in the KOTOR era.

So it strikes me that the Republic fleet is their police force left over after Revan and Malak took their main force over after the Mandalorian wars and the Sith haven't taken the Core worlds as they have massive ships that lack the range to engage the enemy in the outer rim.

That's my take on it anyway, as it shows the stasis of Wars technology and general battle tactics.

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-02-02 10:51pm

PunkMaister wrote:What evidence is this that allegedly points to the existernce of heavy turbolasers at thst era?
As for battles are concerned there is one major battle at the end opf the game where the Star-Forge is destroyed and even here we dont witness any such heavy weaponry, not even when the capitol ships where throwing all they had at the Star Forge.
Now if the republic had such weaponry logically it would have used in that battle considering that it's very survival was at stake!

1,000 years before KOTOR takes place during the Sith War featuring Exar Kun and company, and shown in the Tales of the Jedi comics. There are Star Cruisers with heavy TLs capable of destroying ships of similar size and power.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-02-02 11:07pm

You're actually thinking of the Great Hyperspace War. The Sith War/Kun War took place forty years or so before KotOR.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2006-02-02 11:34pm

NRS Guardian wrote:
PunkMaister wrote:What evidence is this that allegedly points to the existernce of heavy turbolasers at thst era?
As for battles are concerned there is one major battle at the end opf the game where the Star-Forge is destroyed and even here we dont witness any such heavy weaponry, not even when the capitol ships where throwing all they had at the Star Forge.
Now if the republic had such weaponry logically it would have used in that battle considering that it's very survival was at stake!
1,000 years before KOTOR takes place during the Sith War featuring Exar Kun and company, and shown in the Tales of the Jedi comics. There are Star Cruisers with heavy TLs capable of destroying ships of similar size and power.

Again I ask why don't we see them especially when the Republic was in such dire risk?
The only logical thing to do when facing such odds is throw your biggest and baddest weapons at them and they did not, if what you sa is true.
Something is very wrong in the logical strategic thinking from the both sides...
Here's the link again with new additional pics from the last battle in the game:
http://www.1-2-free-forums.com/mf/starw ... ut182.html

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-02-02 11:40pm

PunkMaister wrote:
NRS Guardian wrote:
PunkMaister wrote:What evidence is this that allegedly points to the existernce of heavy turbolasers at thst era?
As for battles are concerned there is one major battle at the end opf the game where the Star-Forge is destroyed and even here we dont witness any such heavy weaponry, not even when the capitol ships where throwing all they had at the Star Forge.
Now if the republic had such weaponry logically it would have used in that battle considering that it's very survival was at stake!
1,000 years before KOTOR takes place during the Sith War featuring Exar Kun and company, and shown in the Tales of the Jedi comics. There are Star Cruisers with heavy TLs capable of destroying ships of similar size and power.
Again I ask why don't we see them especially when the Republic was in such dire risk?
The only logical thing to do when facing such odds is throw your biggest and baddest weapons at them and they did not, if what you sa is true.
Something is very wrong in the logical strategic thinking from the both sides...
Here's the link again with new additional pics from the last battle in the game:
http://www.1-2-free-forums.com/mf/starw ... ut182.html

Those screenshots are supposed to prove what, exactly? You have yet to qualify the intrensic visible characterisitics of a gigaton-level turbolaser shot. I would still maintain that at least some of the ships in that battle, like the Hammerheads, pictured, and the Sith cruisers, while having few of the weapons due to their carrier/interdictor/transport roles, still have some of the heavy weapons.