Why is that this kind of SR vs SW debates never lose steam?

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2006-02-04 10:21pm

It's kind of mindbogglign that after so many years if not decades of being proven that SW can beat ST at any level at any pojnt whenever, wherever!
People still debate this issue!
I think after all this time they would have moved on to debate vs othger franchises and so on rather than hamering the same old iron yet they don't!
Why?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-02-04 10:27pm

PunkMaister wrote:It's kind of mindbogglign that after so many years if not decades of being proven that SW can beat ST at any level at any pojnt whenever, wherever!
People still debate this issue!
I think after all this time they would have moved on to debate vs othger franchises and so on rather than hamering the same old iron yet they don't!
Why?

For the same reason religious bigots never admit being wrong no matter how much evidence proving they are wrong is being presented?
You are working on the- apparently wrong- assumption that such people can, or at least choose to WRT the topic under debate- be reasonable.

Jedi Guardian · Post by **Jedi Guardian** » 2006-02-04 11:16pm

I wish we could post anonymous posts because I am going to get thrashed for this!

But I think Trekies wont give up and that they wont admit SW is better. But yes I as a SW fan know that we do make arguments with them to. It's because I like to rub it in there faces!

There man, now your going to get alot of posts! Boy am I screwed in the head or what? It's because I do this all day!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-02-04 11:17pm

Also, most people are not going to put much mental effort into this subject, because it's really not very important. That's fine, except when they make an off-the-cuff argument and then refuse to budge an inch from that initial knee-jerk position because of pride, which is all too common.

Jedi Guardian · Post by **Jedi Guardian** » 2006-02-04 11:34pm

Oh and I hope this post goes on this should not only get interesting but messy! Let SW vs ST live FOREVER! Or at least until the Trekies realize they can't win, or all the Enterprises and Voyager get blown up by the many weapons of the SW galaxie. Death Star, Sun Destroyer, and that's all I can think of right now feel free to tell me more!

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-02-04 11:50pm

Senators, is this the 'n00b brown-nosing' I've heard so much about?

And it never loses steam because 1) ignorant style over substance, which is 60-80% of all pro-ST claims, and 2) raving lunatics like Darkstar will never, ever go away and make superficially sensible sites about outright lies and misrepresentations. I can remember the day ditl.org was used by Trekkies for it's magical '40,000TW phasers' stuff.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2006-02-05 12:57am

Stark wrote:Senators, is this the 'n00b brown-nosing' I've heard so much about?

Yes, I do believe so. Can we just fucking eat the Troll already? I'm in the mood for steak tartare too...

General Soontir Fel · Post by **General Soontir Fel** » 2006-02-05 01:04am

I think that the reason this doesn't go away is that many Trekkies think ST is better sci-fi, has better characters, better stories, etc. That's a perfectly valid opinion to hold, and it cannot be proven wrong, because it is subjective. And, through some tortured logic, they believe it somehow diminishes that quality if military superiority of SW is granted.

Doesn't make sense to me, but maybe this is why derision of SW prequels as a story is often is brought up into play in these debates, despite the fact that it's completely irrelevant.[/i]

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2006-02-05 03:00am

People need to feel that "their" side is better to feel good about themselves, it's just like sport fans that get really fanantical. They feel they either own their team or favourite show so they must defend it, it feels like an attack on them. Almost like religion, they won't let others enjoy what they prefer instead they try to convert you.

Doctor Doom · Post by **Doctor Doom** » 2006-02-05 11:02am

I think instead of comparing these debates to a religion (though in the case of people such as Mr. Anderson it is certainly apt), I believe the reason it endures is because it is simply an amusing hobby. Yes, there are the "rabid" debaters on both sides, but for the most part people in these debates are rather sensible and just do it because it is fun.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-02-05 05:10pm

Tribalism. My sky pixey is better than your sky pixey. My choosen sci fi is better than yours. Ect.....

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-02-05 05:17pm

Doctor Doom wrote:I think instead of comparing these debates to a religion (though in the case of people such as Mr. Anderson it is certainly apt), I believe the reason it endures is because it is simply an amusing hobby. Yes, there are the "rabid" debaters on both sides, but for the most part people in these debates are rather sensible and just do it because it is fun.

I was rather referring to RSA style debaters though I suppose that wan't all that obvious.
The general debate I see the 'it's a fun hobby' thing working for. The 'Can ST beat SW' one I do not. This has been done to death again, and again, and again. And the answer has always been 'No way in hell'. Yet there are still people arguing it could.
If the only people left arguing that are the fanatics, I maintain that my religion anology holds.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-02-05 05:25pm

BTW, what exactly is the SR v SW debate?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-02-05 05:29pm

Knife wrote:BTW, what exactly is the SR v SW debate?

Says the man who wrote pixey and ect

That being said, I too am unaware of a widespread ShadowRun vs Star Wars debate

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-02-05 10:17pm

Batman wrote: I was rather referring to RSA style debaters though I suppose that wan't all that obvious.
The general debate I see the 'it's a fun hobby' thing working for. The 'Can ST beat SW' one I do not. This has been done to death again, and again, and again. And the answer has always been 'No way in hell'. Yet there are still people arguing it could.
If the only people left arguing that are the fanatics, I maintain that my religion anology holds.

Well, I disagree because at least rabid trekkies have something to base some of their information on, and can make conclusions based off observable information.

OmegaGuy · Post by **OmegaGuy** » 2006-02-05 11:38pm

CBR still thinks Star Trek would win, but they're idiots.

ngc7293 · Post by **ngc7293** » 2006-02-06 12:51am

You know, I sometimes wonder if the whole debate is like WWF Wrestling; a Soap Opera. People are being paid to keep the debate up, even though they themselves know it's a sham.

But that's not likely. What keeps them going is the same thing that drives fat trekkies to go to Cons in StarFleet uniforms.

The beauty of 'Wars is that you can go to a Con "in character" in almost anything and look like you are from one of the movies or books.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2006-02-06 01:31am

ngc7293 wrote:You know, I sometimes wonder if the whole debate is like WWF Wrestling; a Soap Opera. People are being paid to keep the debate up, even though they themselves know it's a sham.

But that's not likely. What keeps them going is the same thing that drives fat trekkies to go to Cons in StarFleet uniforms.

The beauty of 'Wars is that you can go to a Con "in character" in almost anything and look like you are from one of the movies or books.

You can? I don't know I've seen some terrible SW costumes that easily compare with those bad Star Trek costumes. Granted, pajama's like Starfleet wears are hard to make look good.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2006-02-06 02:15am

I would say it's the simple fact that many fans cannot take the subjective portions of a sci-fi, such as their feelings on characterization and storyline, and the objective portions such as powerlevel and other things like that.
Some of us can, I would rather watch TOS than read a Xeelee novel even though the Xeelee would have trouble noticing the federation.

Jedi Guardian · Post by **Jedi Guardian** » 2006-02-06 05:29pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote: You can? I don't know I've seen some terrible SW costumes that easily compare with those bad Star Trek costumes. Granted, pajama's like Starfleet wears are hard to make look good.

Yes but I think he meant full scale, hide your flab and geekness, costumes. Instead of just puting on a cheap pair of pointy ears or attach a egg beater to you hand, you could put on a storm trooper suit or Darth Vader costume. Believe me I got more

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-02-06 06:47pm

It keeps going because as Meest says, people need to believe their favourite is better... and so they tend to hang out at sites that reinforce that belief... and I'll admit Mr Anderson (I think?) did have a site that made some good arguments for the uneducated. I'll admit I'm like that myself.

Before reading these forums I found his site, and ended up avoiding it because I didn't like the doubt it caused. Sure that's reason to flame me here because I'm just being as one eyed and stubborn as the trekies.. however as they're both entertainment, I don't think there's much harm believing what you want to as long as you don't push those beliefs on others without proof to back them up.

Of course after reading enough of these forums (especially the posts where MrA argues "canon" with the very companies that make the fn shows I've concluded his site isn't (wasn't) the threat I thought it was. However there are still thousands who only see one side of the story, and only want to believe one side. It's just human nature.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2006-02-06 06:59pm

General_Soontir_Fel wrote:I think that the reason this doesn't go away is that many Trekkies think ST is better sci-fi, has better characters, better stories, etc. That's a perfectly valid opinion to hold, and it cannot be proven wrong, because it is subjective. And, through some tortured logic, they believe it somehow diminishes that quality if military superiority of SW is granted.

Doesn't make sense to me, but maybe this is why derision of SW prequels as a story is often is brought up into play in these debates, despite the fact that it's completely irrelevant.[/i]

That just makes no sense to me! Me for example thers 2 franchises that I truly love and those are SW and SG. But I think you would ask any SG fan no matter how "rabbid" and they would admit that the SW GE would for the most part curbstomp anything from their universe. Heck just look at how bad they are doing against the Ori that have nearly comparable resources as the empire (EG a whole galaxy to pool resources from at their disposal).
And when it comes to storylines all these franchises have delivered on some level great and epic stories of heroism, good vs evil and people overcoming what seems to be insurmountable odds. That's what's really makes them all atractive in the end. Not their military prowess but the stories. After all who does not like a good yarn?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-02-06 07:01pm

Batman wrote:
Knife wrote:BTW, what exactly is the SR v SW debate?
Says the man who wrote pixey and ect
That being said, I too am unaware of a widespread ShadowRun vs Star Wars debate

Meh, you got me.

PunkMaister · Post by **PunkMaister** » 2006-02-06 07:52pm

Knife wrote:
Batman wrote:
Knife wrote:BTW, what exactly is the SR v SW debate?
Says the man who wrote pixey and ect
That being said, I too am unaware of a widespread ShadowRun vs Star Wars debate
Meh, you got me.

Ok to make things clear the thread was to be tittled ST vs SW and I made a typo ok!
Can we move on please?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-02-06 08:10pm

Ok to make things clear the thread was to be tittled ST vs SW and I made a typo ok!
Can we move on please?

Move on to what? Your question seems to have been answered as in a fairly clear fashion; there are always people out there looking to claim that ST is superior despite all evidence to the contrary, and as long as the debate remains enjoyable, there will be those who will oppose and attempt to educate them.

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Why is that this kind of SR vs SW debates never lose steam?

Why is that this kind of SR vs SW debates never lose steam?

Re: Why is that this kind of SR vs SW debates never lose ste