Luke's Force Potential

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-02-06 10:43am

This is a two fold discussion.

The first question is a simple one. Do you believe that Luke was more powerful than Anakin? And by Anakin we mean before he became a charcoaled briquet - prelava dip ROTS era Anakin seemed more powerful than ROTJ era Luke if we just look at their performances in a scene that shows off their abilities in combat.

In the rescue of Chancellor Palpatine Anakin easily handles dozens of battle droids, deflects blaster bolts with ease and even engages in a duel to the death against a Sith Lord and wins.

In the rescue of Han Solo Luke takes on a barge full of criminals and thugs. He doesn't show the same ability with the saber that his father shows in the rescue of Palpatine and he even is unable to deflect a blaster bolt in time to avoid injury. One gets the feeling that if Luke were faced with Droidekas he would have been toast due to the immaturity of his blaster deflection technique.

Now its probably unfair to compare a half trained shake and bake Jedi to Anakin who was trained since he was 8 but that's the breaks in this question for there really is no other way to compare relative strengths of the characters at their apexes of strength. There is no doubt that Luke is at his most powerful in the films during ROTJ. So powerful in fact that he defeats his father - a Sith lord with 20 years experience under his belt - same as Anakin in ROTS who defeats a Sith lord with much more experience under hsi belt.

Yet one gets the sense that ROTS Anakin would wipe up the floor with ROTJ Luke.

Still make your arguments if you think otherwise.

Secondly - IF Luke really is that powerful or even just uber powerful for any Jedi does it make sense that the son of the Chosen One would be more powerful than the Chosen One? I mean, wouldn't there be some dilution of Force power and potential because the pure power of the Chosen one - a near avatar of the Force due to his birth- is diluted by a non Force user's blood (Padme).

Or does the Force not work that way? Is it possible that the Chosen One's offspring would be more powerful than he? See that part of the storyline never made sense to me because I always envisioned that any of Anakin's offsrping would be powerful but not as powerful as their dad who is born of the midichlorians themselves thus IMO far more in tuned with the force than someone not born of them.

If however Luke's defeating Anakin is more a function of how weak Anakin became due to his injuries then it makes more sense to me.

What are your thoughts on this? I welcome any analysis of Luke's Force powers in the EU as it would be more fair in terms of comparisons.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-02-06 11:09am

Obiviously ROTS Anakin is a much better fighter that RotJ Luke and much more skilled in applying the force towards his ends.

But in raw potential I beleive Luke is supposed to be at least on par with Anakin. Though I can't think of any sources that state this outright.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2006-02-06 11:19am

I'd say Luke is just a smidgen weaker in terms of force to Anakin before his limb chopping. The main difference is that Anakin had a good 14 years of arduous training. Luke had 4 about 4 years of sporadic training. Hell I'd say the fact that he managed to do that well at all against Vader and Palpatine shows tremendous skill. I know in Insider when they were talking about the forms the article stated that it was amazing that Luke managed to pick up form V just from fighting Vader once.

For all that though, yeah, I'd say that Anakin would wipe the floor with Luke.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2006-02-06 11:42am

The EU increases Lukes skill with the saber. I think there are Jedi with better skill, though.

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-02-06 11:55am

Wasn't Vader holding back in the fight at the end of RotJ since he was trying to turn Luke to the dark side?

Count Dooku · Post by **Count Dooku** » 2006-02-06 12:16pm

LongVin wrote:Wasn't Vader holding back in the fight at the end of RotJ since he was trying to turn Luke to the dark side?

Possibly, but I think there is a great deal more to it. Do you remember in ROTJ when Luke surrendered himself to Vader on Endor, and Luke called him Anakin? Vader got REALLY upset, and it stirred feelings in him. The reason he joined with Palpatine was to save his wife (and to a lesser extent his kids). Seeing Luke, hearing Luke call him father, and then having him call him Anakin seemed to shake him up. I don't believe Vader intended to kill Luke, or even harm him.

I think Anakin pre-toasted could wipe the floor with Luke. Anakin had more training, and was the chosen one (which is debatable). I mean, hell, the force was Anakin's friggin father.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-02-06 12:23pm

Look wise it's deceptive. Anakin is better looking and demonstrates it, but when one takes into account that he had 14 plus years of training and war versus Luke's 6 months to a year crash course training from Yoda?

Luke outstrips Anakin by a long shot in terms of performance over span of time.

He did stand against Darth Vader, managed to injure him and was successful for a short time against Palpatine's Force lightning, versus Anakin facing Dooku and getting handed badly.

When one also takes into account that Vader honestly beleive Luke with training would wipe the floor with Palpatine, and Palpatine beliveing such and wanted Luke to assrape Vader.

Added all together Luke was just hastily trained and had little to no experience but that potential wise, everyone believed Luke was much more then what was shown.

EU wise....Luke borders on the fucking insane...to pussy whipped mindless drone

Doctor Doom · Post by **Doctor Doom** » 2006-02-06 03:19pm

If you want to bring the EU into this, Luke beats Wankatine in the Dark Empire series. Enough said.

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-02-06 03:31pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Look wise it's deceptive. Anakin is better looking and demonstrates it, but when one takes into account that he had 14 plus years of training and war versus Luke's 6 months to a year crash course training from Yoda?

Does Luke even have 6 months training to begin with?

He had a day or two with Obi Wan before he got killed by Vader.

Then he goes to Dagobah and Yoda is training him for awhile, then Han and Leia get captured. How long were they just holding them prisoner on Cloud City? A week or two tops? I don't think they spent months there.

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2006-02-06 03:34pm

LongVin wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Look wise it's deceptive. Anakin is better looking and demonstrates it, but when one takes into account that he had 14 plus years of training and war versus Luke's 6 months to a year crash course training from Yoda?
Does Luke even have 6 months training to begin with?

He had a day or two with Obi Wan before he got killed by Vader.

Then he goes to Dagobah and Yoda is training him for awhile, then Han and Leia get captured. How long were they just holding them prisoner on Cloud City? A week or two tops? I don't think they spent months there.

IIRC, one of the guide books says the Falcon has enough supplies to last thirty days, so that sets an upper limit, assuming they weren't held by the Empire too long.

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-02-06 03:44pm

Well they couldn't of stayed hidden in the asteroid belt too long since they were in the belly of that creature and they only stayed inside it for a short time anyway because of the mynocks.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-02-06 04:32pm

Luke's unquestionably possessed of greater potential than Anakin. Anakin himself says so in Shadows of the Empire. Before you go on about how this "can't" be true, find me a quote where Anakin says Luke must not be as powerful. The Prophecy doesn't say Anakin must be stronger than anyone else ever, and in lieu of other canon evidence, it stands as authoritative. Its not a question of argument or belief; the official records tells us directly Luke is stronger. If one wants justification, perhaps the Son of the Suns Prophecy is the Force amping up Anakin's offspring so as a Sith Lord he can be defeated and he could fulfill his own Chosen One Prophecy.

Also, I don't see how TOP makes any sense when it calls a question in about Luke's Force potential and proceeds to yap about his saber skills vis-a-vis his training. A completely untrained neophyte might have greater potential in the Force than a terrible Sith Lord, but that doesn't mean the former is stronger or will win in a fight. You're not asking discrete questions.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-02-06 05:07pm

Manus Celer Dei wrote: IIRC, one of the guide books says the Falcon has enough supplies to last thirty days, so that sets an upper limit, assuming they weren't held by the Empire too long.

30 day internal time. As they had to make the voyage from the asteroid field to Bespin STL, it's entirely possible they did so at decidedly relativistic velocities, so Luke may very well have spend 6 months or more on Dagobah and still have started after them before they got captured in the first place.
And what Ghost Rider said. EU high-end Luke is simply wanktastic.

Jedi Guardian · Post by **Jedi Guardian** » 2006-02-06 06:05pm

Well if anyone wants to know what I think (which at this point senators are getting ready to kick me off and no one cares) I think Luke out bids Anikan in force connection. But when it comes to lightsaber dueling I think Anakin blows his little boy away. But then again if you look back in the original trilogy no one fights the same as in the new series.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-02-06 07:04pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
He did stand against Darth Vader, managed to injure him and was successful for a short time against Palpatine's Force lightning, versus Anakin facing Dooku and getting handed badly.

He did hurt Vader but only because Vader was not trying to hurt Luke but turn him. The second Luke actually hit Vader and pissed him off, Vader disarmed Luke by taking his hand off, and he did that with ease.

Also with Palpatines lightning, Palp was using it to torture the boy not kill him (at least initially) so he wasn't getting hit with full power lightning.

I don't believe Luke was as powerful as Anakin (or even Vader tbh (if you think Anakin lost power when he got fried)), but had the potential to be once his training was finished.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2006-02-06 08:32pm

Batman wrote:
Manus Celer Dei wrote: IIRC, one of the guide books says the Falcon has enough supplies to last thirty days, so that sets an upper limit, assuming they weren't held by the Empire too long.
30 day internal time. As they had to make the voyage from the asteroid field to Bespin STL, it's entirely possible they did so at decidedly relativistic velocities, so Luke may very well have spend 6 months or more on Dagobah and still have started after them before they got captured in the first place.
And what Ghost Rider said. EU high-end Luke is simply wanktastic.

Considering the rest of EU, it couldn't be more than 5 I'd say, due to the timing on Shadows of the Empire. Does that series say anything on how long by then they'd been hunting for Solo?

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-02-06 09:02pm

Out of curiosity, we saw Boba Fett start following the Falcon immediately after the Imperial fleet jumps away. What was to stop the Death Squadron from intercepting the Falcon in interstellar space?

Xess · Post by **Xess** » 2006-02-06 09:04pm

Surlethe wrote:Out of curiosity, we saw Boba Fett start following the Falcon immediately after the Imperial fleet jumps away. What was to stop the Death Squadron from intercepting the Falcon in interstellar space?

Darth Vader wanted to set a trap for Luke. I would say Fett told him they were heading for Bespin and Vader decided to set the trap there rather than just intercepting the Falcon.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2006-02-06 09:07pm

Xess wrote:
Surlethe wrote:Out of curiosity, we saw Boba Fett start following the Falcon immediately after the Imperial fleet jumps away. What was to stop the Death Squadron from intercepting the Falcon in interstellar space?
Darth Vader wanted to set a trap for Luke. I would say Fett told him they were heading for Bespin and Vader decided to set the trap there rather than just intercepting the Falcon.

But Lando also said "They arrived just before you did". I would think that Fett would be able to tell where they were going before 6 months passed.

Xess · Post by **Xess** » 2006-02-06 09:09pm

Captain Cyran wrote:Darth Vader wanted to set a trap for Luke. I would say Fett told him they were heading for Bespin and Vader decided to set the trap there rather than just intercepting the Falcon.

But Lando also said "They arrived just before you did". I would think that Fett would be able to tell where they were going before 6 months passed.

So the Imperials waited 6 months before showing up at Bespin as they knew they had plenty of time to wait. They may have wanted to keep up pretenses that the search was still going on in case the Rebels decided to do something about it.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2006-02-06 09:14pm

Xess wrote:
Captain Cyran wrote:But Lando also said "They arrived just before you did". I would think that Fett would be able to tell where they were going before 6 months passed.
So the Imperials waited 6 months before showing up at Bespin as they knew they had plenty of time to wait. They may have wanted to keep up pretenses that the search was still going on in case the Rebels decided to do something about it.

That doesn't make sense. Why wait those six months? You can just grab them, torture them, and still set your trap for Luke without throwing in the ridiculous middle man of Bespin.

LongVin · Post by **LongVin** » 2006-02-06 09:16pm

no way it took them six months to get to Bespin. The Falcon was damaged and that was the only place they could get to.

Xess · Post by **Xess** » 2006-02-06 09:50pm

LongVin wrote:no way it took them six months to get to Bespin. The Falcon was damaged and that was the only place they could get to.

If the Falcon was travelling at relatavistic velocity then the subjective time to the crew would be far less than 6 months.

Xess · Post by **Xess** » 2006-02-06 09:51pm

Captain Cyran wrote:
Xess wrote:So the Imperials waited 6 months before showing up at Bespin as they knew they had plenty of time to wait. They may have wanted to keep up pretenses that the search was still going on in case the Rebels decided to do something about it.
That doesn't make sense. Why wait those six months? You can just grab them, torture them, and still set your trap for Luke without throwing in the ridiculous middle man of Bespin.

Doesn't make much sense to me either. I'm just tossing out possibilities.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-02-06 09:56pm

its hard to say how long it took for them to get there, but you have to remember that the fleet dispirsed which must have included the Executor. so they hat to wait for the ship to drop out of hyperspace and head back. maybe they felt that they could a get a two for one by capturing them at Bespin. a free gas mine to boot is not bad. perhaps they traked the falcon until they were sure where they were heading just to be safe. and catching them at Bespin make accidentally killing them out of the question as they will willingly walk into they hands so to speak. With their drive working they can wait intil the day they know for sure where they are going and arrive and dissapear again before the Falcon can notice them