Which Civic would have more "pep"?

[Magnetic]

Just curious as to which Civic would have more "pep" in real world driving conditions.

Regular ICE Civic:
140 hp @ 6300
128 lb. ft. Torque @ 4300

Civic Hybrid
110 hp @ 6000
123 lb. ft. Torque @ 1000 - 2500

I understand that torque is a better determiner of 'performance'.

How does a Prius compare to these?

Should I wait for the 2007 Camry Hybrid for 'better performance'?

Thanks!

David

[TheFeniX]

Pure horsepower and torque ratings may not always be the best route to go when determining accleration (which is what I assume you mean by pep). Many things can modify that. Two being weight and gear ratios.

Dig around and find each cars 0-60, 1/4 mile times, and maybe even acceleration curves from 0-100 or 60+.

[Sea Skimmer]

Pure horsepower and torque ratings may not always be the best route to go when determining accleration (which is what I assume you mean by pep). Many things can modify that. Two being weight and gear ratios.

Not to mention the acutal horsepower and torque curves, rather then just the peak rating.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Just curious as to which Civic would have more "pep" in real world driving conditions.

Regular ICE Civic:
140 hp @ 6300
128 lb. ft. Torque @ 4300

Civic Hybrid
110 hp @ 6000
123 lb. ft. Torque @ 1000 - 2500

Here are a couple other numbers to consider:

Curb weight of a Civic 4 door sedan (AT): 2690 lbs.
Curb weight of a hybrid Civic sedan (AT): 2875 lbs.

That's 30 fewer horses pulling almost 200 more pounds.

I understand that torque is a better determiner of 'performance'.

All torque really determines is your ability to accelerate. Horsepower is what enables you to keep your speed on open road.

How does a Prius compare to these?

The Prius has the same 110 bhp overall, however, the gas motor only provides 82 ft-lbs of torque at 4300 RPM. While the electric motor provides 295 ft-lbs (!) of torque, it's all at the bottom. The Prius also has curb weight of 2921 lbs, so it's a bit heavier than the Civic. Both will accelerate quickly out of a stoplight, but they'll be a bit pokey on the highway and a downright nuisance on the hills.

Should I wait for the 2007 Camry Hybrid for 'better performance'?

The Toyota Camry hybrid has 192 bhp overall and 138 ft-lbs of torque on the gas motor. While it weighs in at a beefy 3637 lbs, its performance on the highway will be about par with many gas-powered midsized sedans, which is to say "more than sufficient" but not "awe inspiring."

If you want performance, stick to a standard gas-powered ICE.

[1123581321]

You don't drive a hybrid for the "pep." If the "pep" is your primary concern go for the regular civic. If going 650 miles between fill-ups appeals to you, go for the hybrid.

[Sea Skimmer]

You don't drive a hybrid for the "pep." If the "pep" is your primary concern go for the regular civic. If going 650 miles between fill-ups appeals to you, go for the hybrid.

It only gets that kind of mileage on the highway in EPA tests, which are not very realistic, they drive at 55mph (ha!) and accelerate to that speed as slowly as possible. Every time a car magazine or anyone else has done there own fuel economy trials on a hybrid, the figures they get are always much lower, often by more then 10mpg then what the manufacture/EPA claims

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

You don't drive a hybrid for the "pep." If the "pep" is your primary concern go for the regular civic. If going 650 miles between fill-ups appeals to you, go for the hybrid.

It only gets that kind of mileage on the highway in EPA tests, which are not very realistic, they drive at 55mph (ha!) and accelerate to that speed as slowly as possible. Every time a car magazine or anyone else has done there own fuel economy trials on a hybrid, the figures they get are always much lower, often by more then 10mpg then what the manufacture/EPA claims

Yes, to get the most mileage out of a hybrid, one has to drive conservatively, to allow more of the vehicle's power to go into recharging the battery. If one drives a hybrid the way a vehicle here is typically driven (that is, by a speed-crazed lunatic with no concept of time management) then one can expect to get the same fuel economy as they would've if the vehicle only had the gasoline motor. While the gasoline motor is small and efficient, it is rather underpowered, and one tends to drive it harder to make up for that as a result.

[Magnetic]

You don't drive a hybrid for the "pep." If the "pep" is your primary concern go for the regular civic. If going 650 miles between fill-ups appeals to you, go for the hybrid.

I would not presume to debate you.


I think I may just go with the Civic EX.

[Alferd Packer]

It's not as if the normal Civic is a gas guzzler on its own. You can still expect good fuel economy, especially if you're light on throttle.

[Sea Skimmer]

Yes, to get the most mileage out of a hybrid, one has to drive conservatively, to allow more of the vehicle's power to go into recharging the battery. If one drives a hybrid the way a vehicle here is typically driven (that is, by a speed-crazed lunatic with no concept of time management) then one can expect to get the same fuel economy as they would've if the vehicle only had the gasoline motor.

Fuel economy can become worse in some cases, espically with sustained high speed driving above the 55mph used for the tests. Air resistance mounts pretty fast, and you'll soon have that undersized gas motor working as hard as possibul.

[Magnetic]

Actually, barring an obnoxiously high price tag, I may go with the 2007 Camry Hybrid, when it is released. It will be a fairly good sized car that is supposed to get around 40 mpg in the city. That's hard to beat.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Actually, barring an obnoxiously high price tag, I may go with the 2007 Camry Hybrid, when it is released. It will be a fairly good sized car that is supposed to get around 40 mpg in the city. That's hard to beat.

It's a hybrid . . . of course it will have an obnoxiously high price tag compared to . . . say, an ordinary Camry (a few thousand more, most certainly.) Though it will have all the creature comforts, and you can claim some manner of tax incentives on it.

[1123581321]

You don't drive a hybrid for the "pep." If the "pep" is your primary concern go for the regular civic. If going 650 miles between fill-ups appeals to you, go for the hybrid.

It only gets that kind of mileage on the highway in EPA tests, which are not very realistic, they drive at 55mph (ha!) and accelerate to that speed as slowly as possible. Every time a car magazine or anyone else has done there own fuel economy trials on a hybrid, the figures they get are always much lower, often by more then 10mpg then what the manufacture/EPA claims

I drive a hybird, of course, I also deliberatly drive easy and I get 650 miles to a tank, and by easy I mean usually withing 5 mph of the speed limit. If there's traffic, I go its speed. Of course, I'm getting older so blowing down the road at 80 doesn't have the appeal it used to. That and I drive on military bases frequently where you will get pulled over for going 1 mph over the speed limit.

[Magnetic]

Actually, barring an obnoxiously high price tag, I may go with the 2007 Camry Hybrid, when it is released. It will be a fairly good sized car that is supposed to get around 40 mpg in the city. That's hard to beat.

It's a hybrid . . . of course it will have an obnoxiously high price tag compared to . . . say, an ordinary Camry (a few thousand more, most certainly.) Though it will have all the creature comforts, and you can claim some manner of tax incentives on it.

I just read that someone stated from Motor Trend that the Camry Hybrid will start at $26,000 US dollars. That's not that bad for that kind of car, along with it's extra "green-ness".

[Ma Deuce]

I just read that someone stated from Motor Trend that the Camry Hybrid will start at $26,000 US dollars. That's not that bad for that kind of car, along with it's extra "green-ness".

Of course there's already an Accord hybrid, but since that starts at $31K (as much as a Cadillac CTS, to put things in perspective), so if you're set on a mid-sized hybrid, you're probably wise to wait for the hybrid Camry.

[Col. Crackpot]

I just read that someone stated from Motor Trend that the Camry Hybrid will start at $26,000 US dollars. That's not that bad for that kind of car, along with it's extra "green-ness".

Of course there's already an Accord hybrid, but since that starts at $31K (as much as a Cadillac CTS, to put things in perspective), so if you're set on a mid-sized hybrid, you're probably wise to wait for the hybrid Camry.

the Accord hybrid also sports a 3 litre V-6 and is marketed more as a high performance sedan that happens to also be fuel efficient.

[Col. Crackpot]

for the record i have 2 Civics and get about 35 mpg in mixed driving. (mostly highway)

[Big Phil]

If you want horsepower, get a muscle car:

Dodge Charger
Ford Mustang
Chevrolet Corvette
etc.

Anything other than that is just a wannabe. If you want a hybrid for it's good gas mileage, good for you, but don't expect to race the thing. Even minvans will kick your ass off a green light.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

If you want horsepower, get a muscle car:

Dodge Charger
Ford Mustang
Chevrolet Corvette
etc.

Anything other than that is just a wannabe. If you want a hybrid for it's good gas mileage, good for you, but don't expect to race the thing. Even minvans will kick your ass off a green light.

Don't be ridiculous. More horsepower can be a nice thing to have on a vehicle that isn't a muscle car. Some cars can barely get out of their own way as it is. While that wouldn't be a problem if all cars were "underpowered" it can be a bit worrying when you see some asshole yapping on his cellphone while eating a Big Mac in his oversized, overpowered municipal stadium of an SUV slowly crawling up your tailpipe because he either thinks you're going to slow, he's running late, or he simply isn't paying attention.