What makes Halo 2 so great?

[lPeregrine]

But instead, it was released for the xbox... not only was it the only half-decent console FPS at the time, it was the only strong game for the xbox, period.

You're saying there were no strong games for the XBox other than the two Halo games?

Take a look at the sales... the halo games are the clear winners. I'm not saying the system had nothing else worth playing, just that (if I remember the order right) the games available were weaker than other systems, especially lacking the must-buy exclusives that other systems had. Halo was the game that gave the xbox mass appeal and popularity.

Of course this is just a secondary factor to the lack of decent console FPSs in general. That's the real reason the game is considered anything special. It was an average FPS at a time when the competition was awful at best. For the console crowd, Halo was a revolution, even if it's one PC gamers had years earlier.

[Ford Prefect]

I really think Halo 2 failed because it lacked the Needler Slap. That was inspired if you ask me, though they changed it for whatever reason.

Okay, so it didn't really fail. However, it could have done with the demo level from E3 still in it. That's kind of vague, I know, but I'm talking about the one set at night, with the giant cannon, and the air strike, and the Brutes with oversized Jackal shields, and Brutes dropping out of the sky, and finally the Elites coming down from the Heavens in their drop pods and confronting the Chief. With flaming plasma blades.

Oh yeah, that was a loss too; no flaming plasma blades. That's what I really wanted - the oppurtunity to swing around a sword that looked like it was on fire. I didn't get that.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Deathrow (launch)

Never heard of it, to be honest.

Irrelevent. It's a quality XBox-only title.

Farcry Instincts

Essentially a console port of a successful PC game, missing the AI and some graphical touches. Not really exclusive as a result.

It's an entirely new game, just using a tweaked CryTek engine and the same character names. The voice actors and plot are different, as are ALL the levels... oh, and what about the added weapons, vehicles, ability to set traps, oh and hey, mutagen powers!

I own both Farcry Instincts and Farcry, so don't presume to tell me otherwise.

Ninja Gaiden Black

Ceded

Goddamn right. One of the best games of that entire console generation.

Otogi 1
Otogi 2

Never heard of them.

Again, irrelevent.

Panzer Dragoon Orta (launch)

Moderate cessation, isn't this a rail shooter? Not exactly big bucks.

FUCKING IRRELEVENT. For some reason, you want to shift the goal posts from "good game" to "sold a lot of copies".

Flamebait or not, he still has indirectly brought up a valid point - there really aren't very many strong Xbox exclusive titles, and Halo, frankly, doesn't really bring much to the table as far as FPS games go.

And I bring up the point that you are a moron. I've provided a small list- if I were to go and make another (for there have been several) thread about great XBox only games on Penny Arcade, I'm sure I could come back here with another dozen or so within a day.

Oh, I thought of another XBox only game.
Jade Empire.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of moderately selling titles is nothing to be ashamed of, but when you look at the games of the year, I have this feeling that Xbox titles make up a small number respectively.

Ah yes, because if it's not GotY, it's not a good game. What is with you and your goalpost shifting?

[DesertFly]

I have to say, I enjoy Halo 2 quite a bit; when I got my Xbox, it was one of two games I got (along with KOTOR). However, I do have to admit that the Halo series has nothing on PC FPSs and nothing on a console ever has. What Halo (and Halo 2) do have going for them are accesibility and community. It's much easier to get a bunch of guys together around a tv and plug a couple of extra controllers in then it is to get everyone a computer and spend time loading up a game and starting a LAN. Also, it's cooler being able to be out in the general living area when playing games--I don't feel like I'm shutting myself off in some dungeon like I do with my pc games.

[Hotfoot]

DP, you're a fucking idiot. Did you even read my first post? Perhaps I should repost it and bold the parts you didn't quite comprehend.

To be honest, I can kind of see where he's coming from DP - most of the games that caught my attention on the X-Box are out for PC or PS2. Can you name an Xbox exclusive game (not just exclusive on launch, mind, but available in a reasonable time on any other system, PC/PS2/GC) aside from Halo? Preferably one that was a big seller, but moderate sellers would do as well. I mean, right now, the only two I can name offhand are DOA and PGR. That's not exactly a stellar library.

I didn't move the fucking goalposts, you just didn't pay attention.

[Vendetta]

Actually, every title he named sold at least reasonably well. Otogi may not have troubled western charts, but it did well enough at home to warrant a sequel.

[Hotfoot]

Even so, I didn't change the goalposts, and while I may not own an Xbox, I do keep an ear to the games on the console, because if they reach a critical level, I'd consider buying one.

The point is, Halo is a major financial success for the console, but simply selling the console isn't enough - you need to sell lots of games, and blockbuster games that sell tons and tons of copies are games that are the holy grail for console companies. The Xbox, simply put, doesn't have very many of these games as far as I can tell.

XBox 1 seems to have been about establishing a player base, more than anything. Getting the console out there and in the minds of gamers. XBox 360, if it hopes to have any chance of financial success it needs more games that are exclusive AND kick ass.

By the way, slight nitpick, we are the western charts.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Even so, I didn't change the goalposts, and while I may not own an Xbox, I do keep an ear to the games on the console, because if they reach a critical level, I'd consider buying one.

Whereas I'm perfectly happy with my XBox, WHAT WITH ALL MY CRITICALLY-ACCLAIMED TITLES THAT ARE EXCLUSIVE TO THE SYSTEM.

The point is, Halo is a major financial success for the console, but simply selling the console isn't enough - you need to sell lots of games, and blockbuster games that sell tons and tons of copies are games that are the holy grail for console companies. The Xbox, simply put, doesn't have very many of these games as far as I can tell.

As I said earlier, this is not what you fucking said before. I asked if he was saying that there weren't any good games on the XBox, and you agreed with him. Then you say "Well, give me a list of exclusive titles that sold well", as if selling well is a mark of quality. You're still persisting with that idiotic train of thought.

[Hotfoot]

Whereas I'm perfectly happy with my XBox, WHAT WITH ALL MY CRITICALLY-ACCLAIMED TITLES THAT ARE EXCLUSIVE TO THE SYSTEM.

Frankly, I don't care if you're happy or not, that's not what I'm trying to point out. If you're happy, fine, whatever, have fun. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't be having fun, I'm talking about good, financially positive games for the Xbox that are exclusive to the title. Like I said, there don't seem to be many.

As I said earlier, this is not what you fucking said before. I asked if he was saying that there weren't any good games on the XBox, and you agreed with him. Then you say "Well, give me a list of exclusive titles that sold well", as if selling well is a mark of quality. You're still persisting with that idiotic train of thought.

Nice try, you little shit, but maybe you should read what I write. I'm not wholesale agreeing with him, I said he had a POINT, and then proceeded to talk about what I meant.

Even more, the point you're trying to make about me agreeing with him, then asking for a list of games that sold well? SAME POST SHITHEAD. Yeah, I really moved the fucking goalposts there.

Care to backpedal even further, or do you want to cut your losses at being a little whiney fuck who can't be bothered to actually read what he's spewing vitrol at?

[Manhatten Project]

It is very simple. Halo 2 is a great party game. It's story sucks, but it is a great multiplayer game because of the Xbox/Xbox 360's linking capacity. Also, it is the best for Xbox live, since you can get 32 or however many people playing at once, on teams. Its multiplayer is so good because the weapons, plus dual-wielding, are good, and there are a million different modes of gameplay, making sure it doesn't get old.

[Vendetta]

Even more, the point you're trying to make about me agreeing with him, then asking for a list of games that sold well? SAME POST SHITHEAD. Yeah, I really moved the fucking goalposts there.

You asked for a list of exclusive titles with at least moderate sales. One was provided.

If you now wish to say that you did not mean to include games with "moderate" sales and only want to deal with smash hit sellers, then you are moving the goalposts.

[Hotfoot]

You asked for a list of exclusive titles with at least moderate sales. One was provided.

If you now wish to say that you did not mean to include games with "moderate" sales and only want to deal with smash hit sellers, then you are moving the goalposts.

Oh please. Are you blind too? All I did was point out the games that either weren't exclusives or that I had never even heard of, indicating that sales were not likely that high. Meanwhile, he overreacts and explodes. I'm not the one who started with foul language and accusations here, but I can damn well keep them going if that's what you want.

Please point out where I said that they're inadmissable. You can't, because I simply commented that they're not really the first thing I was looking for, the big sellers. Would you like a lesson in reading comprehension as well? Okay, here we go:

Preferably one that was a big seller, but moderate sellers would do as well

Here, I'm not discounting moderate sellers, but first and foremost I'm looking for big sellers.

-Never heard of it, to be honest.
-Never heard of them.

Now then, what is said here? I never heard of these games. Implication? I don't know anything about them or their relative sales. Further speculation can posit that since I've never heard of them, they probably can't be big sellers, since word tends to spread quickly. Obviously, if there's a sequel, they've done well (at least that would be expected, though it's not always the case, some really bad games can get sequels, Deer Hunter anyone?). Of course, again, since I've never heard of them, I can't know how well they actually did - did they scrape by? Did they sell reasonably well? Right now, all he's doing is listing game titles.

-Moderate cessation, isn't this a rail shooter? Not exactly big bucks.

Pointing out that niche games don't sell well, it's a truth that we all have to face, sadly. Warcraft will always sell better than Freespace, Quake will sell better than Homeworld. It probably sold decently, but it just doesn't have the player base to do amazingly well.

Meanwhile, let's take a look at DPDarkPrimus and his posts. He goes from zero to furious in about three nanoseconds. Doesn't bother to really read my posts, automatically assumes I'm joining a troll, WARNS me about what I should or should not do, and goes ballistic while I'm calmly repeating what I said in the first place.

Now, we could go through the lists of Xbox games, see which ones were the most critically acclaimed, which ones sold the best, and hey, I might even be wrong, I honestly don't see where I'm moving these goalposts. Seems to me that you guys set up the goalposts and are getting pissy when I repeat what I say and it doesn't match what you think I said.

Meanwhile, let's talk about DP's goalposts.

Whereas I'm perfectly happy with my XBox, WHAT WITH ALL MY CRITICALLY-ACCLAIMED TITLES THAT ARE EXCLUSIVE TO THE SYSTEM.

I'll use Rotten Tomatoes as my source, as they tend to be pretty impartial. We'll call anything above 90% "Critically Acclaimed" for the sake of argument.

Deathrow (93%) (Ceded)
Farcry Instincts (89%) (Close, but not quite)
Ninja Gaiden Black (Not listed, using Ninja Gaiden as base, 91%) (Ceded)
Otogi 1 (75%)
Otogi 2 (64%) (Both are pretty far out)
Panzer Dragoon Orta (95%) (Ceded)
Phantom Crash (30%) (Way out)
Jade Empire (91%) (Ceded)

In all, an impressive list, yes? Well, of course, there are a lot of apparently very good games on there. Of course, it doesn't exactly match the statement DP makes above, does it? I mean, if I really wanted to be anal, he did say ALL the games in his collection were critically acclaimed.

Meanwhile, let's look at what he THOUGHT the goalposts were:

For some reason, you want to shift the goal posts from "good game" to "sold a lot of copies".

Let's see if I ever mention "good game" as a qualifier in my post, shall we?

To be honest, I can kind of see where he's coming from DP - most of the games that caught my attention on the X-Box are out for PC or PS2. Can you name an Xbox exclusive game (not just exclusive on launch, mind, but available in a reasonable time on any other system, PC/PS2/GC) aside from Halo? Preferably one that was a big seller, but moderate sellers would do as well. I mean, right now, the only two I can name offhand are DOA and PGR. That's not exactly a stellar library.

Can you even find the word "Good" in that post, much less "Good game"? I can't, and I'm looking pretty damn hard. Looks like my goalposts were "Xbox exclusive" and "sales", with a preferance on "big" over "moderate", right from my first post.

Where's that changed to, exactly?

[Darth Wong]

The point is, Halo is a major financial success for the console, but simply selling the console isn't enough - you need to sell lots of games, and blockbuster games that sell tons and tons of copies are games that are the holy grail for console companies. The Xbox, simply put, doesn't have very many of these games as far as I can tell.

What are you talking about? Platform-exclusive titles are important only because they drive people to adopt the hardware: something you deny is particularly important in this case. If one is questioning the XBox's overall success as a game console or its entertainment value, its entire sales are relevant, not just the sales of platform-exclusive titles. A normal, well-adjusted XBox owner is concerned primarily with getting a good gaming experience and finding the games he wants to play, not dick-waving contests with other console owners.

[Hotfoot]

What are you talking about? Platform-exclusive titles are important only because they drive people to adopt the hardware: something you deny is particularly important in this case.

No, I'm not denying that it's important, just that it's not enough to turn a profit for the company. Microsoft takes a loss for each console they sell, a loss that is not recouped simply by the sale of Halo and Halo 2 in proportion with the console sales. I may very well be on a tweaked tangent, of course.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that, as the newcomer, Xbox needs to do both, sell a lot of games, and establish themselves as a viable and worthwhile system enough for new and existing gamers to adopt it.

If one is questioning the XBox's overall success as a game console or its entertainment value, its entire sales are relevant, not just the sales of platform-exclusive titles.

True, overall sales have to be considered, but my point was that when the console is in competition with other platforms (PC/PS2/GC), shared titles don't help much in the goal of both selling lots of copies and persuading hardware adoption.

However, given the new strategy that Microsoft seems to be taking (last one out in the previous generation, first one out this generation), it seems like they're banking on enough people adopting their system to go for major sales in the current generation. I suppose what I'm trying to point out is that their model is, as far as I see it, flawed, because there were not enough adoption titles, if you will, in the previous generation.

Additionally, by putting the console releases so close together, they're increasing their total losses (unless there's something going on I don't know about).

A normal, well-adjusted XBox owner is concerned primarily with getting a good gaming experience and finding the games he wants to play, not dick-waving contests with other console owners.

True, and in that respect, non-exclusive titles help a lot, he's not feeling gypped for choosing the Xbox over another console. Of course, there is still the very vocal minority.

I suppose in a roundabout way what I'm getting at, in all, is that as the new kid on the block, the Xbox really should have blown everyone away with fantastic exclusive titles, but they really didn't. Granted, a lot of their titles are really good, and the PC/Xbox shared titles really sort of count in the console wars anyway, but I can't help but feel somewhat underwhelmed by what they've offered in some way.

I will gladly say, however, that they do have an impressive library, all things considered, and that it's very easy to go, buy an Xbox and a dozen games, and have them all be good or great. The thing I really wonder about is sales, and to be honest, I really don't know much.

[DPDarkPrimus]

DP, you're a fucking idiot. Did you even read my first post? Perhaps I should repost it and bold the parts you didn't quite comprehend.

To be honest, I can kind of see where he's coming from DP - most of the games that caught my attention on the X-Box are out for PC or PS2. Can you name an Xbox exclusive game (not just exclusive on launch, mind, but available in a reasonable time on any other system, PC/PS2/GC) aside from Halo? Preferably one that was a big seller, but moderate sellers would do as well. I mean, right now, the only two I can name offhand are DOA and PGR. That's not exactly a stellar library.

I didn't move the fucking goalposts, you just didn't pay attention.

You moved the goalposts WITH that, because the original assertation that you could "see where he's coming from" was that there were no good games besides Halo. I ignored your cavet about selling many copies the first time because it was irrelevent then as well.

As I've pointed out multiple times now, your rationale of "selling 500 thousand copies or more = good" is idiotic at best.

Nice of you to define ONLY games "90 and above" critically acclaimed. You were using Rotten Tomatoes, which ranks something as "Fresh" if it is over 60%. I would venture to say, then, that anything over 75% could be considered "critically acclaimed".

I use GameRankings, which, since it only uses video game review sites, is a bit more reliable than quoting from a three-sentence "review" from, say, Time Magazine.

Phantom Crash 74%
Otogi 1 81%
Otogi 2 80%

And yet another X-Box exclusive title I thought of, Phantom Dust.
83%

[Stark]

It's fascinating to see you guys in an argument and using the utterly worthless game industry as a part of it.

[Alyeska]

Would you two knock it off already?

[Kamakazie Sith]

It's fascinating to see you guys in an argument and using the utterly worthless game industry as a part of it.

Worthless in what sense?

[Ace Pace]

It's fascinating to see you guys in an argument and using the utterly worthless game industry as a part of it.

Worthless in what sense?

/sarcasm
Worthless in the sense that it hasn't yet doubled hollywoods earnings Yet?

[Hotfoot]

You moved the goalposts WITH that, because the original assertation that you could "see where he's coming from" was that there were no good games besides Halo. I ignored your cavet about selling many copies the first time because it was irrelevent then as well.

Ah, yes, so, when I said:

I can kind of see where he's coming from

In your mind, that means:

I agree with him completely

Regardless of what I actually said. Meanwhile, you can freely IGNORE parts of my posts as you see fit, is that it? You know what that's called? POOR READING COMPREHENSION.

As I've pointed out multiple times now, your rationale of "selling 500 thousand copies or more = good" is idiotic at best.

Stop misrepresenting what I said you dishonest little shit.

Nice of you to define ONLY games "90 and above" critically acclaimed. You were using Rotten Tomatoes, which ranks something as "Fresh" if it is over 60%. I would venture to say, then, that anything over 75% could be considered "critically acclaimed".

Funny, I was under the impression that getting a 90% or better on a review meant the game was groundbreaking and critically acclaimed, not hitting the "average" mark.

You mean to tell me that because 60% is passing in most school systems, that 75% and up should be fucking honor roll?

Fuck, even by making 75% the critically acclaimed mark, you get, what, ONE extra game on your list, with Otogi 1 riding the thin red line? But hey, move those goalposts all you want.

I use GameRankings, which, since it only uses video game review sites, is a bit more reliable than quoting from a three-sentence "review" from, say, Time Magazine.

Phantom Crash 74%
Otogi 1 81%
Otogi 2 80%

Still not exactly critically acclaimed, last I checked, 60-80% was more like "fun and playable", not "critically acclaimed", at least under most ratings systems. By the way, where are the 3-line New York Times reviews on Rotten Tomatoes for any of the games I mentioned? Because as I'm looking at them, they're all full articles from gaming sites, so please, stop the bullshit. If you've got a legitimate complaint, hey, by all means, speak up, but I'm getting awfully tired of you bitching randomly at anything that says something you don't like.

And yet another X-Box exclusive title I thought of, Phantom Dust.
83%

Bravo. Let me know when you feel like addressing the point I brought up in the first place, instead of ranting and spitting poison at some imagined post that never actually existed, because I'm sick of this shitstorm you've decided to stir up by being a stupid sack of shit that can't read more than two sentences before foaming at the mouth and screaming bloody murder.

[DPDarkPrimus]

What is the point you're trying to make? That the X-Box doesn't have that many exclusive titles that have sold well? Is that all it is, or did I miss something? I'm asking you honestly here to just state it.

[Hotfoot]

What is the point you're trying to make? That the X-Box doesn't have that many exclusive titles that have sold well? Is that all it is, or did I miss something? I'm asking you honestly here to just state it.

That is pretty much the long and short of it, yes.

[Manhatten Project]

Halo 2 may not be a great game, but Halo 1 was. Therfore, Halo is a great game to all the Halo 1 fans, and since the Halo hype is so high, it might even sell more Xboxs.

[lPeregrine]

What is the point you're trying to make? That the X-Box doesn't have that many exclusive titles that have sold well? Is that all it is, or did I miss something? I'm asking you honestly here to just state it.

Since it was my comment that started it, I think that's exactly what his point is.

Yes, the xbox has some good games. But the point was that Halo's competition isn't all that strong. Halo isn't as popular as it is because it's a brilliant and revolutionary game, it's popular because it was released for a system that didn't have very much else. You know, you buy a system, you get the relatively few decent games for it, and then you get the "must have" title because why not, there's nothing else to buy. And you already own the xbox, so you might as well do something with it.

And I'd check the dates on the games you're quoting. Jade Empire, for example, was released after Halo, so talking about it here doesn't make much sense.

[DPDarkPrimus]

And I'd check the dates on the games you're quoting. Jade Empire, for example, was released after Halo, so talking about it here doesn't make much sense.

Your original wording of your paragraph started out with "Halo (either one)", which means the rest of your post carries the implication that you are still talking about both.