Can Gen Grevious deflect blaster bolts ?

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-02-11 03:54pm

You'd think however built him to be a jedi killer would have included Cortosis in his armor to make him saber resistance too.

His hand amputation suggests otherwise

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2006-02-11 04:59pm

I don't see why he couldn't deflect (a few) blaster bolts shot at him from a significant distance. He has reaction speeds good enough to fight a Jedi in melee combat, why couldn't that translate into judging a good way to hold the saber as he watches the bolt approach?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-02-11 05:38pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:I don't see why he couldn't deflect (a few) blaster bolts shot at him from a significant distance. He has reaction speeds good enough to fight a Jedi in melee combat, why couldn't that translate into judging a good way to hold the saber as he watches the bolt approach?

I suppose might be able to do that, under the right conditions. However, I seriously doubt GG could do it on a level approaching what even mundane Jedi Knights can do. They have been shown to deflect waves of fire, close and long range from numerous sources, some of them completely out of their range of vision. The General might be able to do it as a novelty, but not to any extent that would make it viable as a combat tactic.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-02-11 08:22pm

even if he would be able to deflect shots, he would probably have to concentrate just to deflect one; jedis can deflect multiple shots, sometimes without looking.

AK_Jedi · Post by **AK_Jedi** » 2006-02-11 11:01pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote: Some indications are possible given that in the movie he can apply enough force to hit a starfighter, and not break the hand. Obi Wan mentions what it's made of and makes some allusions to being Starfighter grade, but that part is unreliable given Obi Wan hardly had time to pick at GG.
He distinctly dents his own starfighter when he punches at Obi-wan and the Jedi dodges. His hand seems quite functional afterwards. It's not an unreasonable conclusion that his droid body is composed of material at least as tough, if not tougher, than the sheets of metal used to cover starfighters.
Jeez...

-Your hand breaks through a concrete block.

Is your hand on that level of durability as that block of concrete?

No, it's a matter of concentrated force upon a small area. That gives no indication that it's the same grade of material. Just means you can apply enough force and your hand has at least enough durability to withstand the needed force to go through or in this case dent said material.

Have you ever heard of a man named Newton? Perhaps you have heard of his third law of motion that says, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". If you hit something, that something, that something exerts the same amount of force on your hand as you do on it. Grievous hits a starfighter with enough force to dent it, and his hand remains completely functional. This means that his hand was made with material that is stronger than the metal of the starfighter.

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2006-02-12 03:54am

Noble Ire wrote: I suppose might be able to do that, under the right conditions. However, I seriously doubt GG could do it on a level approaching what even mundane Jedi Knights can do. They have been shown to deflect waves of fire, close and long range from numerous sources, some of them completely out of their range of vision. The General might be able to do it as a novelty, but not to any extent that would make it viable as a combat tactic.

Exactly. If the observed speed of blaster bolts is accurate, then Grievous should be physically capable of blocking them with his cyborg senses and reflexes. However, it isn't an ability to be relied upon in combat. In the same way, real-life martial artists can catch arrows, but they wouldn't be able to wade into the Battle of Agincourt and start snatching them out of the air.

But upon checking my copy of Labyrinth of Evil, I see that it's a moot point as both General Grievous and his MagnaGuards are described as deflecting blaster fire on their approach to Palpatine's bunker.

Doctor Doom · Post by **Doctor Doom** » 2006-02-12 05:14pm

Have you ever heard of a man named Newton? Perhaps you have heard of his third law of motion that says, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". If you hit something, that something, that something exerts the same amount of force on your hand as you do on it. Grievous hits a starfighter with enough force to dent it, and his hand remains completely functional. This means that his hand was made with material that is stronger than the metal of the starfighter.

There are martial artists in the real world that can break a concrete block with their bare hands. Are those hands stronger then concrete?

Manhatten Project · Post by **Manhatten Project** » 2006-02-12 05:35pm

Solauren wrote:You'd think however built him to be a jedi killer would have included Cortosis in his armor to make him saber resistance too.

His hand amputation suggests otherwise

You moron. Nothing can resist a lightsaber that would also be able to compose an artificial hand. Remember the blast door in TPM?

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2006-02-12 05:39pm

Manhatten Project wrote:
Solauren wrote:You'd think however built him to be a jedi killer would have included Cortosis in his armor to make him saber resistance too.

His hand amputation suggests otherwise
You moron. Nothing can resist a lightsaber that would also be able to compose an artificial hand. Remember the blast door in TPM?

Cortosis Ore?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-02-12 05:46pm

Cortisis Ore is structally weak. Not very good to build with.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2006-02-12 05:48pm

Crazedwraith wrote:Cortisis Ore is structally weak. Not very good to built with.

I know, but what about a cortosis-composite with a higher-strength alloy, perhaps?

Manhatten Project · Post by **Manhatten Project** » 2006-02-12 06:09pm

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:Cortisis Ore is structally weak. Not very good to built with.
I know, but what about a cortosis-composite with a higher-strength alloy, perhaps?

If it is with a higher strength alloy, why mention cortisis ore at all. BTW, Did you see how narrow Grevious' wrists, where the lightsaber cut his arms, were?

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2006-02-12 06:13pm

Manhatten Project wrote:
Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:Cortisis Ore is structally weak. Not very good to built with.
I know, but what about a cortosis-composite with a higher-strength alloy, perhaps?
If it is with a higher strength alloy, why mention cortisis ore at all. BTW, Did you see how narrow Grevious' wrists, where the lightsaber cut his arms, were?

Because said high-strength alloy gets cut through by a lightsaber as if it were air. The cortosis ore would cause the lightsaber to deactivate before it has a chance to cut through the wrist, I presume.

AK_Jedi · Post by **AK_Jedi** » 2006-02-12 06:31pm

Doctor Doom wrote:
Have you ever heard of a man named Newton? Perhaps you have heard of his third law of motion that says, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". If you hit something, that something, that something exerts the same amount of force on your hand as you do on it. Grievous hits a starfighter with enough force to dent it, and his hand remains completely functional. This means that his hand was made with material that is stronger than the metal of the starfighter.
There are martial artists in the real world that can break a concrete block with their bare hands. Are those hands stronger then concrete?

But did Grievous use a martial arts technique when hitting the fighter? no. he hit it straight on with a closed fist, and the collision brought his fist to rest, which is a fairly straightforward calculation. Depending on the mass and velocity of grievous' fist and arm, there is a certain amount of force applied to his hand, and to the starfighter. The metal on the starfighter dented because of this force, while Grievous' hand was undamaged. This makes his hand better resistant to KE than the starfighter metal.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-02-12 07:02pm

AK_Jedi wrote:
Doctor Doom wrote:
Have you ever heard of a man named Newton? Perhaps you have heard of his third law of motion that says, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". If you hit something, that something, that something exerts the same amount of force on your hand as you do on it. Grievous hits a starfighter with enough force to dent it, and his hand remains completely functional. This means that his hand was made with material that is stronger than the metal of the starfighter.
There are martial artists in the real world that can break a concrete block with their bare hands. Are those hands stronger then concrete?
But did Grievous use a martial arts technique when hitting the fighter? no. he hit it straight on with a closed fist, and the collision brought his fist to rest, which is a fairly straightforward calculation. Depending on the mass and velocity of grievous' fist and arm, there is a certain amount of force applied to his hand, and to the starfighter. The metal on the starfighter dented because of this force, while Grievous' hand was undamaged. This makes his hand better resistant to KE than the starfighter metal.

I believe I have found a new dumbass.

One, martial arts or not...they are still limited by what again? Oh that's right, force and application.

And yes, dumbfuck...Newton's third law...good that you passed high school physics now learn something you slept through.

If I take a baseball bat, and dent a piece of steel sheet, are you going to fucking tell me the baseball bat is stronger then the steel, or are you going to tell me that the baseball bat can take the force applied to it because of CONCENTRATION and dented the steel because of that?

According to you fucktard, we can say wood is at least on par with steel because of this event instead of grasping that the steel was across a larger plane versus a single point.

You are truly a fucking idiot to not grasp something about IMPACT.

Seriously...learn the science before spewing this inane shit.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-02-12 07:51pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
I believe I have found a new dumbass.

One, martial arts or not...they are still limited by what again? Oh that's right, force and application.

And yes, dumbfuck...Newton's third law...good that you passed high school physics now learn something you slept through.

If I take a baseball bat, and dent a piece of steel sheet, are you going to fucking tell me the baseball bat is stronger then the steel, or are you going to tell me that the baseball bat can take the force applied to it because of CONCENTRATION and dented the steel because of that?

According to you fucktard, we can say wood is at least on par with steel because of this event instead of grasping that the steel was across a larger plane versus a single point.

You are truly a fucking idiot to not grasp something about IMPACT.

Seriously...learn the science before spewing this inane shit.

amen dude i could have debunked their lame arguments in the 3rd grade.

Jedi Guardian · Post by **Jedi Guardian** » 2006-02-13 05:38pm

I think that Obi-Wan knew that Grivous's armor could withstand blaster bolts, because either it was a lucky guess, or Obi-Wan actually knew to make a hole in his armor to make a clear shot at his heart.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-02-13 05:48pm

This may be pure speculation, but...

Perhaps the reason why Obi-wan opened up the armor in the first place was to make sure he would die. If he merely shot at the General with his armor intact, it might have injured him without being fatal, and he would just run away again, being the coward that he was.

Besides, I don't think specializing in droid armor is part of basic Jedi training.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-02-14 10:32am

Prying apart General Grievous' chestplates was probably just a random act of desperation, or the guidance of the Force.. or some, in-universe, might even look at it as both.

As I stated earlier on this thread, I think that armor defeats small arms level blaster bolts quite comprehensively. Despite multiple shots into GG's chest cavity, the blasts failed to make an exit opening out the back armor.

As an aside, note that the plates were loosened in the first place by a pretty hard blow to the Grievous' midsection with an electrostaff, when the cyborg was prone on the landing pad. That blow, in itself, looked like it caused some actual damage.

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2006-02-14 01:58pm

Manhatten Project wrote:
Solauren wrote:You'd think however built him to be a jedi killer would have included Cortosis in his armor to make him saber resistance too.

His hand amputation suggests otherwise
You moron. Nothing can resist a lightsaber that would also be able to compose an artificial hand. Remember the blast door in TPM?

Maybe, right, just maybe you should try and make sure you know what the fuck you're talking about before accusing people of being morons. Phrik is a material that is resistant to ligtsabers, and there were battlesuits made out it in Dark Forces (IIRC). The IG-100s staffs are made of it as well, IIRC.

There is also the "cortosis weave" from the KOTOR games, which may have been what Solauren have been thinking off, which AFAIK is never mentioned to be particulary dense or difficult to manipulate.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-02-14 06:24pm

Manus Celer Dei wrote:
Manhatten Project wrote:
Solauren wrote:You'd think however built him to be a jedi killer would have included Cortosis in his armor to make him saber resistance too.

His hand amputation suggests otherwise
You moron. Nothing can resist a lightsaber that would also be able to compose an artificial hand. Remember the blast door in TPM?
Maybe, right, just maybe you should try and make sure you know what the fuck you're talking about before accusing people of being morons. Phrik is a material that is resistant to ligtsabers, and there were battlesuits made out it in Dark Forces (IIRC). The IG-100s staffs are made of it as well, IIRC.

There is also the "cortosis weave" from the KOTOR games, which may have been what Solauren have been thinking off, which AFAIK is never mentioned to be particulary dense or difficult to manipulate.

Just as a bit.

Phrik is able to withstand Lightsabers.

Cortosis is in many of the higher sources barring movies(since no appearance) is able to disrupt a Lightsaber and shut it down for a matter of minutes upon the two colliding. In fact it's shown to shut it down with centimeters, so the Cortosis does not actually touch the lightsaber. How consistent is unknown.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-02-14 06:31pm

Cortosis is in many of the higher sources barring movies(since no appearance) is able to disrupt a Lightsaber and shut it down for a matter of minutes upon the two colliding. In fact it's shown to shut it down with centimeters, so the Cortosis does not actually touch the lightsaber. How consistent is unknown.

Are you sure? In VotF, where it is first introduced, pure Cortosis does indeed disupt lightsaber beams, but I seem to recall that they are able to melt through it for a very short period before it does, suggesting they can come in contact with it (Luke and Mara used this trait to tunnel through a deposit of the stuff, IIRC).

And the concept of "Cortosis Weave" behaving like Phrink is not isolated to just KOTOR; I seem to recall it in numerous other games, like Jedi Outcast and Obi-Wan as well, and (I believe) at least a few Republic-era comics (I'm not sure on that count). Apparently, the weaving process reduces its purity and potancy.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2006-02-14 06:40pm

In the game "Rise of the Cortosis Battle Droids" did the Cortosis armor shut off the saber, or block it?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-02-14 06:44pm

Noble Ire wrote:
Cortosis is in many of the higher sources barring movies(since no appearance) is able to disrupt a Lightsaber and shut it down for a matter of minutes upon the two colliding. In fact it's shown to shut it down with centimeters, so the Cortosis does not actually touch the lightsaber. How consistent is unknown.
Are you sure? In VotF, where it is first introduced, pure Cortosis does indeed disupt lightsaber beams, but I seem to recall that they are able to melt through it for a very short period before it does, suggesting they can come in contact with it (Luke and Mara used this trait to tunnel through a deposit of the stuff, IIRC).

And the concept of "Cortosis Weave" behaving like Phrink is not isolated to just KOTOR; I seem to recall it in numerous other games, like Jedi Outcast and Obi-Wan as well, and (I believe) at least a few Republic-era comics (I'm not sure on that count). Apparently, the weaving process reduces its purity and potancy.

Perhaps the pure, but in Purge a Jedi master takes out a blade of it, Vader slashs and his saber does no damage to the blade, nor do the other masters that attack it when he takes the blade as a replacement weapon.

So there could easily be a difference in forging and consistency to it and it's immediate effect upon a lightsaber.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-02-14 06:47pm

The Original Nex wrote:In the game "Rise of the Cortosis Battle Droids" did the Cortosis armor shut off the saber, or block it?

You mean that one where Anakin kills Dooku on Metalorn (I guess he's supposed to be a clone)? I seem to recall that they simply blocked the lightsaber blade, rather than disrupting it.

Ghost Rider wrote:

Perhaps the pure, but in Purge a Jedi master takes out a blade of it, Vader slashs and his saber does no damage to the blade, nor do the other masters that attack it when he takes the blade as a replacement weapon.

So there could easily be a difference in forging and consistency to it and it's immediate effect upon a lightsaber.

Odd, though now that you mention it, the dagger was still intact after the strike. I suppose forged Cortosis could be increased in potenacy, as well as decreased.

In regards to "weave", perhaps the term Cortosis is erroneously applied to another metal, either Mandalorian Iron or Phrink, which have similar effects. Of course, I suppose the inital explanation is simpler.