Sith Lightsaber Controversy

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-02-09 05:25pm

Precog would prevent that.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-02-09 05:31pm

yeah i agree if he would be sith material he would definately be able to sense the danger.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-02-09 09:35pm

Or perhaps:

Sith: You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched lightsabers when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war on Endor, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sith when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha -
[explodes]

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-02-10 07:41am

Hmm, come to think of it, it's possible that they actually apply precognition when aligning the crystal(s) in a lightsaber. Perhaps they first position the crystals as best as they can, then they wiggle them around until they no longer get a premonition of the lightsaber blowing up when activated.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-02-11 03:29pm

that makes sense because the succesful completion of building a lightsaber tests the would-be jedi's force sensitivity.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-02-13 04:08am

You'd think the factory method would be easier. Just have droids build your lightsabers. Then they're safe and you don't have to take some kind of suicidal test to build them.

What, risking death building your weapon is proof you're worthy to use it? Dang insane warrior wizard ethics!

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-02-13 06:38am

Kurgan wrote:You'd think the factory method would be easier. Just have droids build your lightsabers. Then they're safe and you don't have to take some kind of suicidal test to build them.

What, risking death building your weapon is proof you're worthy to use it? Dang insane warrior wizard ethics!

Haha well said.

Still, ignoring crazy tradition and ethics, look at it this way... if a being isn't attuned strongly enough to the Force to foresee his face (or face-like anatomical region) blown off by a badly aligned lightsaber crystal, then his precognition is clearly insufficient to warrant using a lightsaber instead of a blaster.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-02-13 08:12am

Kurgan wrote:You'd think the factory method would be easier. Just have droids build your lightsabers. Then they're safe and you don't have to take some kind of suicidal test to build them.

What, risking death building your weapon is proof you're worthy to use it? Dang insane warrior wizard ethics!

The alignment of the crystals are different every time you make a lightsaber, because of the type of crystal, distance between main crystal and focusing crystal, etc. A droid is not force-sensitive, therefore they cannot build lightsabers that require force-sensitivity. You idiot.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-02-13 08:20am

Lightsabers don't need the Force to be used (Gen Grievous is NOT Force sensitive), so there's no reason why a droid couldn't make a lightsaber.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-02-13 08:27am

Lord Revan wrote:Lightsabers don't need the Force to be used (Gen Grievous is NOT Force sensitive), so there's no reason why a droid couldn't make a lightsaber.

Lightsaber wielders do not have to be force sensitive, but you DO need the force to construct the lightsaber, to ensure that you should be using one.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-02-13 11:06am

Cos Dashit wrote:
Kurgan wrote:You'd think the factory method would be easier. Just have droids build your lightsabers. Then they're safe and you don't have to take some kind of suicidal test to build them.

What, risking death building your weapon is proof you're worthy to use it? Dang insane warrior wizard ethics!
The alignment of the crystals are different every time you make a lightsaber, because of the type of crystal, distance between main crystal and focusing crystal, etc. A droid is not force-sensitive, therefore they cannot build lightsabers that require force-sensitivity. You idiot.

Me, an idiot?! Who do you think you are, Ghostrider, all of a sudden? Seriously... If it's based on probability, you can get a computer to crunch the numbers. Use the same types of parts and crystals every time, and you can get it to work. You have heard of factories and mass production methods, right? You don't need the force to build a lightsaber. It's a piece of technology not some mystical magic-tech...

Besides, even if it was (which would be BS), you could do so via remote so as not to BLOW YOUR OWN FRIGGIN' HEAD OFF when building it. The Jedi have been known to be able to do things without being in direct physical proximety to them, duh.

I like the name btw!

This stuff about needing the Force to construct a lightsaber is an EU brainbug anyway. The "you should be using one" thing speaks just to that.. a tradition. It's a stupid tradition though, since it's portrayed as basically the Jedi version of Russian Roulette...

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2006-02-13 12:11pm

Yes, but when you can get away with it, stupid traditions tend to thrive.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-02-13 12:44pm

Cos Dashit wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:Lightsabers don't need the Force to be used (Gen Grievous is NOT Force sensitive), so there's no reason why a droid couldn't make a lightsaber.
Lightsaber wielders do not have to be force sensitive, but you DO need the force to construct the lightsaber, to ensure that you should be using one.

why do you need the Force to make one, droids can sensitive calibration work as well as (and in some cases even better then) Jedi, what part does the Force rather sensitive sensors and delicate arms, I've to see any evidence of that lightsabers need the Force to be constructed. All the EU stuff I've read(plus the ANH novelization) suggests that it's skill needed to use lightsaber effectively that's te reason why Jedi use them rather then Jedi being the only capable of making them.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-02-13 03:40pm

Indeed. Without the Force to guide your hand, a lightsaber is little more than an industrial cutting tool.

As for using the Force to help you align the crystals (to avoid detonation upon activation), I believe that's only the case when you use irregular natural crystals. The Jedi Order probably deliberately has its Padawans use natural crystals for this reason: it's part of a traditional test.

Mass-produced synthetic crystals that have a standardized shape and internal structure would most likely all require similar alignment, thus making mass production possible.

This isn't meant as part of the main discussion, but Desann's Reborn warriors and Shadowtroopers probably use mass-produced lightsabers.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-02-13 05:43pm

Cykeisme wrote:
As for using the Force to help you align the crystals (to avoid detonation upon activation), I believe that's only the case when you use irregular natural crystals. The Jedi Order probably deliberately has its Padawans use natural crystals for this reason: it's part of a traditional test.

Mass-produced synthetic crystals that have a standardized shape and internal structure would most likely all require similar alignment, thus making mass production possible.

If it was true that you could mass-produce lightsabers (which according to the Visual Dictionary it isn't), the only people that would incorporate this method would be the Sith. They are the only ones that use synthetic crystals in their lightsabers. And as for the traditional test bit, that is exactly the point of aligning your own lightsabers. I'm not entirely sure if the explosion of a failed lightsaber would be fatal, but it would certainly pick out the jedi "duds". ( If it did kill them, the Masters might look at it as getting rid of a unskilled jedi, and abolishing the possibility of him/her going over to the dark side.)

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-02-14 12:18am

Cos Dashit wrote:If it was true that you could mass-produce lightsabers (which according to the Visual Dictionary it isn't), the only people that would incorporate this method would be the Sith. They are the only ones that use synthetic crystals in their lightsabers. And as for the traditional test bit, that is exactly the point of aligning your own lightsabers. I'm not entirely sure if the explosion of a failed lightsaber would be fatal, but it would certainly pick out the jedi "duds". ( If it did kill them, the Masters might look at it as getting rid of a unskilled jedi, and abolishing the possibility of him/her going over to the dark side.)

Luke's saber uses synthetic crystals. Is he a Sith?

And using lightsabers you didn't build yourself is a time-honored tradition.

Maybe the Jedi do like Russian Roulette, but it's still a stupid idea. Maybe they are just that dumb... Anyway, aren't the Sith supposed to be smart? So using some kind of suicide test to eliminate students sounds fun but it wouldn't necessarily root out future dark siders.

Mass produced lightsabers are a perfectly logical possibility according to the G-Level canon, as I see it. Just because they might choose not to employ it in some point of history doesn't mean it can't be done.

DesertFly · Post by **DesertFly** » 2006-02-14 01:03am

Perhaps they do mass produce lightsabers, as backup. I could see the Jedi (and Sith) order having each Padawan build his own as a sort of test of their power/expression of their individuality, but there are backup sabers around, and they have to come from somewhere. An example of this is in AOTC, where Obi-Wan and Anakin are tossed two (apparently) spare sabers when they are rescued from the Geonosian arena.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-02-14 01:06am

I've always found the idea that only Jedi can build lightsabres to be absurd. They're not MAGIC, they're SW-standard technology. I bet you can get Converse lightsabres, and Coruscant Clipper lightsabres, etc etc. It's likely they're not widely manufactured because to an average person they're utterly useless, and inferior to a blaster.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-02-14 07:52am

Given the appearance of standard designs in the Clone Wars ("Anakin" and "Obi-Wan" types, which appear in the hands of General Grievous and probably a couple other places) I thought that represented the start of, if not mass production, the appearance of standard combat lightsabre designs. Sturdier, I'd wager.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-02-14 12:46pm

Stark wrote:I've always found the idea that only Jedi can build lightsabres to be absurd.

Tough, I,Jedi and other novels states the force is essential to lightsabre manufacture.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-02-14 01:51pm

Didn't Lucas himself make some comment about this to the effect that the Jedi lose their sabers so often they have to mass produce them?

Or maybe I'm just smokin' crack and forgetting where I heard that from...
Wish I could remember. ;P

Sabers are certainly mass produced in the EU, with Desann and Tavion's Reborn and Ragnos cults.

That sabers are considered an "outdated (or less useful) technology" by non-force users could very well explain why we don't see them more often. Perhaps it's been whittled down to a few manufacturers by the time of the Prequel Trilogy. A Jedi might have to construct one in a pinch or just for fun, but at that time there would be little need for it. It might simply be that like any other piece of tech the hobbyist Jedi tweak theirs like working on a car (adding fancy designs to the hilt like with Windu's saber). If possession is forbidden then the sabers may simply belong to the order, making it less likely that they'll be encouraged to just build their own stuff which then becomes their's (or maybe personal belongings like clothing and saber are exceptions to the rule?).

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-02-14 01:52pm

Crazedwraith wrote:
Stark wrote:I've always found the idea that only Jedi can build lightsabres to be absurd.
Tough, I,Jedi and other novels states the force is essential to lightsabre manufacture.

And other sources lead one to assume the opposite. What do we do when two EU sources are in conflict? The movies are silent on the issue. This is just a massive brain bug inspired from an interpretation of one line in ROTJ, "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber. Your skills are complete." Now suddenly you need the Force to build one!

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-02-14 04:35pm

Stark wrote:I've always found the idea that only Jedi can build lightsabres to be absurd. They're not MAGIC, they're SW-standard technology. I bet you can get Converse lightsabres, and Coruscant Clipper lightsabres, etc etc. It's likely they're not widely manufactured because to an average person they're utterly useless, and inferior to a blaster.

IIRC the ANH novelisation supports this. It states that Lightsabers where used by more than Jedi, though doesn't state who else used them. Also in the first Zahn book Talon Karde captured Luke. Luke ask's Karde how he identified him as Skywalker. IIRC Karde's exact reply is "With a Lightsaber at your side? You're either Luke Skywalker, Jedi or have an insufferably high opinion of you swordsmanship".

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-02-14 04:45pm

I could accept that the Jedi make their own lightsabers, but mass produce some synthetic ones on the side because they lose them all the time.

That way they still have the traditional test, and a whole buncha back-ups when their original gets lost.