Design a Feddie ship that can take out an ISD

[Captain tycho]

I used the asteroid destruction calculator to come up with 200gigatons for the TOS plasma torpedoes.

Someone said quantum torpedoes are more powerful. If that's true then watch out for them teraton volleys.

Quantum torps are rated at (roughly) anywhere between 64 and 128 megatons accodring to Wong's site.
And the blasts are omnidirectional, not focused as in proton torps.
The plasma torps could have been special high powered weapons that were too expensive to mass produce or experimental, since it was a protoype BOP that used them.
And don't forget we don't know the density of the rock, compostion, etc, that they blasted through.
No quantum torpedo has shown any teraton level damage levels in the entire ST saga.

[Galaxy]

I don't know if the destruction of the outposts were specified. Using the crater energy from the destruction calculator, i get at least 150megatons. But that doesn't figure the energy required to destroy the outpost within the asteroid. The structure inside was made of the toughest alloy in the federation.
Just as a guess i'll say TOS plasma torpedoes are 200megatons. (if the outpost wasn't vaporized)

I think the Trek TMs are wrong. photon torps in voyager are 200isotons. I guess that translates into 500 megatons. I think that needs to be considered into all the calculations when comparing SW ships and ST ships.

[Captain tycho]

I don't know if the destruction of the outposts were specified. Using the crater energy from the destruction calculator, i get at least 150megatons. But that doesn't figure the energy required to destroy the outpost within the asteroid. The structure inside was made of the toughest alloy in the federation.
Just as a guess i'll say TOS plasma torpedoes are 200megatons. (if the outpost wasn't vaporized)

I think the Trek TMs are wrong. photon torps in voyager are 200isotons. I guess that translates into 500 megatons. I think that needs to be considered into all the calculations when comparing SW ships and ST ships.

150 megatons ain't shit against an ISD.
And we all know how tough Feddie alloy is.
And you cannot simply guess at everthing.

[Darth Wong]

The plasma torpedoes in "balance of terror" (TOS) were able to vaporize fed outposts buried in 2 mile asteroids. I'm not an expert but that sound pretty darn powerful.

Watch the episode again. They said it was PULVERIZED, not vapourized. That drops the energy yield by a couple of orders of magnitude. 1 gigaton would be enough to pulverize a four mile wide asteroid even if it's iron.

By the way, keep in mind that Slave-1 can pulverize four mile wide asteroids. The fact that the Romulan warbird could do so (with a weapon so powerful in the ST universe that it was considered a one-shot one-kill weapon) only means that the mightiest starship weapon in Trek history is roughly equal to one of Slave-1's mines.

[arctic_series]

i present to you the ultimate weapon of mass terror : ripped shirt kirk launchers.

using the widely accepted rules :

as ripped shirt kirk > ewoks
add we all know ewoks > entire SW galaxy
therefore ripped shirt kirk > entire SW galaxy

they use some transport technobable to clone kirk (the TOS version of course !) rip his shirt, stuff him into a torpedo casing and aim at whatever you want to be beaten up.

[Vympel]

as ripped shirt kirk > ewoks
add we all know ewoks > entire SW galaxy
therefore ripped shirt kirk > entire SW galaxy

Problems at Proposition number 2- it is patently false

Also, you assume a multitude of Kirk's, where there is just one, and you must rip his shirth beforehand.

Your weapon is ineffective.

[Isolder74]

i present to you the ultimate weapon of mass terror : ripped shirt kirk launchers.

using the widely accepted rules :

as ripped shirt kirk > ewoks
add we all know ewoks > entire SW galaxy
therefore ripped shirt kirk > entire SW galaxy

they use some transport technobable to clone kirk (the TOS version of course !) rip his shirt, stuff him into a torpedo casing and aim at whatever you want to be beaten up.

That's just silly

[starfury]

That's just silly

but a riot

[Shinova]

I think phase-cloaked torpedoes are the best bet.

[Exonerate]

Create a ship full of marines. This ship should have as much power devoted to shields as possible (with luck, enough to withstand one medium turbolaser hit without failing) Give all of them dimensional inverters (yes, I'm aware that prolonged use of this device will eventually kill them), and 20th century machine guns. Have the dimensional inverters preprogrammed to teleport the entire crew to critical locations on the Imperial vessel at the touch of a single buttion.

With any luck, this will enable a well trained crew a chance to board the imperial vessel before they are blown up, and being able to directly access critical areas on the ship, a well-trained crew would have a small chance of successfully capturing the ISD. Of course a federation crew would have no chance whatsoever, but that's not my problem.

Problem:

First they need marines.

What do you think all those red shirts are for? Realisticly, they should try to get Janeway to seduce Q, and have him take care of the ships for them

[AdmiralKanos]

Create a ship full of marines. This ship should have as much power devoted to shields as possible (with luck, enough to withstand one medium turbolaser hit without failing)

Medium turbolaser = 200 gigatons. Good luck.

Give all of them dimensional inverters (yes, I'm aware that prolonged use of this device will eventually kill them), and 20th century machine guns. Have the dimensional inverters preprogrammed to teleport the entire crew to critical locations on the Imperial vessel at the touch of a single buttion.

Since they can't scan through heavy metals, they can't scan through the hull. And since scanners are based on the same subspace phenomena that the "subspace inverter" is based on, it probably won't work either. And even if it DOES work, they'll be inserting them blind, so the odds are that most of them will materialize with feet, arms, or other body parts embedded in bulkheads, floors, heads through ceilings, etc. This would only make for a shitty day for the cleanup crew.

With any luck, this will enable a well trained crew a chance to board the imperial vessel before they are blown up, and being able to directly access critical areas on the ship, a well-trained crew would have a small chance of successfully capturing the ISD.

An ISD carries 37,000 crewers, and there is no central point of control, like there is on a Fed ship. Any rooms that they secure will rapidly be cut off and retaken by Imperial troops. Besides, after 99% of them get killed during the transport sequence (assuming it miraculously works even though it's based on the same subspace carrier that doesn't pass through heavy-metal hulls), there won't be enough of them to secure a Dairy Queen, never mind an ISD.

[data_link]

Janeway and Q?

Thanks a lot! Now I've got that disgusting image in my brain.

[data_link]

Medium turbolaser = 200 gigatons. Good luck.

Thanks. They'll need it.

Since they can't scan through heavy metals, they can't scan through the hull. And since scanners are based on the same subspace phenomena that the "subspace inverter" is based on, it probably won't work either.

It'll work. It was working before when they couldn't locate the terrorist base with their scanners either (although, amazingly, they could still transport in, once they had found it.) In any case, it obviously does not work on the same subspace carrier as the scanners normally do, since they had to use technobabble to even detect it at all, and tracking it took a number of tries.

And even if it DOES work, they'll be inserting them blind, so the odds are that most of them will materialize with feet, arms, or other body parts embedded in bulkheads, floors, heads through ceilings, etc. This would only make for a shitty day for the cleanup crew.

Not if they had blueprints for the ISD corridor layout. Oh wait... the only way to get those blueprints would be to capture an ISD. Hm. Okay, the federation is fucked here. Although... it would be interesting to see what would happen if they attached the inverters to antimatter charges instead. Do you have numbers for the internal hull strength of an ISD?

An ISD carries 37,000 crewers, and there is no central point of control, like there is on a Fed ship. Any rooms that they secure will rapidly be cut off and retaken by Imperial troops. Besides, after 99% of them get killed during the transport sequence (assuming it miraculously works even though it's based on the same subspace carrier that doesn't pass through heavy-metal hulls), there won't be enough of them to secure a Dairy Queen, never mind an ISD.

Wong, the entire crew of a Galaxy-class starship couldn't secure a dairy queen. Why do you think I specified a well trained crew?

[Peregrin Toker]

The original Enterprise, under Kirk's command, and participating in whichever TOS episode that'll have Kirk winning.

Otherwise, the Federation wouldn't have much of a chance.

[data_link]

The original Enterprise, under Kirk's command, and participating in whichever TOS episode that'll have Kirk winning.

Otherwise, the Federation wouldn't have much of a chance.

Sorry, but character shields have been disabled for the purposes of this debate. Thank you, and have a nice day.

[Darth Wong]

It'll work. It was working before when they couldn't locate the terrorist base with their scanners either (although, amazingly, they could still transport in, once they had found it.)

Their inability to find the base was due to the size of the search area (an entire planet), not impenetrability of signal. The base was beneath a mere 30 metres of ordinary rock, and they could scan it once they knew where to look. I reiterate that there is no evidence that a subspace inverter can pass through a wall that would stop a sensor ping cold.

In any case, it obviously does not work on the same subspace carrier as the scanners normally do, since they had to use technobabble to even detect it at all, and tracking it took a number of tries.

And you felt that this is because their sensors cannot penetrate 30 metres of rock, rather than the sheer size of the search area? The E-Nil couldn't find Spock's landing party in "Galileo 7", and they were sitting right out in the open!

Not if they had blueprints for the ISD corridor layout. Oh wait... the only way to get those blueprints would be to capture an ISD. Hm. Okay, the federation is fucked here. Although... it would be interesting to see what would happen if they attached the inverters to antimatter charges instead. Do you have numbers for the internal hull strength of an ISD?

A lot higher than the hull strength of the ST ship which would getting shot at while they try to transport with their gizmo

Wong, the entire crew of a Galaxy-class starship couldn't secure a dairy queen. Why do you think I specified a well trained crew?

Oh yeah. Still, even a well-trained crew would be nothing more than paste after transporting blindly, even if we assume that it's possible. The few who miraculously survive this process would be easily overpowered (and this is all assuming that the ship survives long enough to transport them in the first place; a rather dubious proposition).

[Peregrin Toker]

Sorry, but character shields have been disabled for the purposes of this debate. Thank you, and have a nice day.

AH!!! Damnit!!!

Then the Federation seems to be doomed. After all, if it's Federation engineering, then it must go kablammo.

UNLESS.... can we use any of Voyager's various "wonder weapons??" (you know, the ones that the Voyager's crew invent, use one episode and then forget everything about??)

[aerius]

Build upgraded versions of the Cardassian Dreadnought missle. Get rid of it's phasers and stuff it with even more antimatter, and armor and shield it as much as possible. I think the original had about a ton of antimatter and matter in the warhead, I'd put at least 10 times as much in there. Mass produce tens of thousands of them and launch them in waves of thousands against an ISD. Phase cloak them too so they can close in through as much of the turbolaser fire as possible before they phase back in and impact.

[Captain tycho]

Build upgraded versions of the Cardassian Dreadnought missle. Get rid of it's phasers and stuff it with even more antimatter, and armor and shield it as much as possible. I think the original had about a ton of antimatter and matter in the warhead, I'd put at least 10 times as much in there. Mass produce tens of thousands of them and launch them in waves of thousands against an ISD. Phase cloak them too so they can close in through as much of the turbolaser fire as possible before they phase back in and impact.

A very interesting idea, althought the cost alone of outfitting the missiles with phase cloaks would be huge.
Plus, the ISD can just hyper out of there.

[Darth Wong]

The dreadnaught is as expensive to make as a starship. They can't make thousands of them, and they don't have the antimatter supplies to fuel them up. Besides, they can still be easily shot down, even if we assume the ISD doesn't simply do hyper.

PS. I don't think that any ship which is only dangerous in hordes counts as a Feddie ship which can take down an ISD.

[Sea Skimmer]

Build upgraded versions of the Cardassian Dreadnought missle. Get rid of it's phasers and stuff it with even more antimatter, and armor and shield it as much as possible. I think the original had about a ton of antimatter and matter in the warhead, I'd put at least 10 times as much in there. Mass produce tens of thousands of them and launch them in waves of thousands against an ISD. Phase cloak them too so they can close in through as much of the turbolaser fire as possible before they phase back in and impact.

If they can build tens of thousands of 100 meter warp capable star ships then building the 250,000 or so Quantum torpedoes to drop a shielding segment would be a better option.

[arctic_series]

as ripped shirt kirk > ewoks
add we all know ewoks > entire SW galaxy
therefore ripped shirt kirk > entire SW galaxy

Problems at Proposition number 2- it is patently false

Also, you assume a multitude of Kirk's, where there is just one, and you must rip his shirth beforehand.

Your weapon is ineffective.

NO IT ISN'T !!!

using the widely accepted formula that:

canon > logic, common sense, continuity, photon torpedoes, just about everything else.

ripped shirt kirk = canon
ewoks = canon
and since ripped shirt kirk > ewoks

ST wins !!! who needs logic and common sense or continuity when all you need is CANON evidence ?!

[aerius]

If they can build tens of thousands of 100 meter warp capable star ships then building the 250,000 or so Quantum torpedoes to drop a shielding segment would be a better option.

True, but the problem is you need a launching platform for the quantum torpedoes. If that launch platform is within QT range of an ISD, the ISD can easily blow that platform to hell. I seriously doubt the Feds can build anything that can stand up to the firepower of an ISD long enough to launch it's own weapons, so suicide ramming ships are about the only option left.

[Ender]

What do you think all those red shirts are for?

Redshits are waht we currently call "painchippers" in the Navy. They are not marines.

[Ender]

that should be Paintchippers, though I suppose what I said works.