Hyperdrive cannonshells

[Batman]

a Grav well or Mass shadow generators (assuming they're not the same thing with a different name) would a relatively easy way to counter any weapons that use hyperspace.

No. Hyperdrives cut out for safety reasons, remember? One could skip that when an impact is intended rather than avoided.

That presumes it's the actual impact with the realspace mass as opposed to too close proximity with the mass shadow that causes the destruction. Do we know what, exactly, causes ships in hyperspace to die when they run into large masses?
Since if the safety feature pulls out a ship at x km from a mass shadow because at 1/100th of x the hyperdrive goes BANG, Lord Revan's defenses would work.

[nightmare]

a Grav well or Mass shadow generators (assuming they're not the same thing with a different name) would a relatively easy way to counter any weapons that use hyperspace.

No. Hyperdrives cut out for safety reasons, remember? One could skip that when an impact is intended rather than avoided.

That presumes it's the actual impact with the realspace mass as opposed to too close proximity with the mass shadow that causes the destruction. Do we know what, exactly, causes ships in hyperspace to die when they run into large masses?
Since if the safety feature pulls out a ship at x km from a mass shadow because at 1/100th of x the hyperdrive goes BANG, Lord Revan's defenses would work.

I remind you of the Thrawn Pincer. Or of Han's quote back in ANH, if that serves you better. Proximity is dangerous, but only in the way proximity would be dangerous in realspace.

The point is that you can use a droid ramship with proximity safety off, and there's no particular reason to believe they would go pop just because they pass through a false gravity well. In fact, I seem to recall that hyperdrives have been activated within real gravity wells, with considerable danger, but without destruction. What exactly the danger was is unclear. It could be as simple as course deviation.

[Connor MacLeod]

Don't forget the 3 ISDs that collided with the Executor's shields as the result of a hyperdrive error.

[nightmare]

Don't forget the 3 ISDs that collided with the Executor's shields as the result of a hyperdrive error.

Well, that was obviously an impact. Hyperdrive safety didn't kick in there in time, apparently. One could theorize that Admiral Griff's ships came out very close to the Executor. While large, it's no where near as massive as say a planet. Griff was also in high sublight pursuit of rebels, and presumably, he came out at high sublight velocity and didn't have time to avoid. It is noteworthy that Griff's ships did exit hyperspace prior to impact, though, at least according to Vader's XO.

Event in question

[Connor MacLeod]

Don't forget the 3 ISDs that collided with the Executor's shields as the result of a hyperdrive error.

Well, that was obviously an impact. Hyperdrive safety didn't kick in there in time, apparently. One could theorize that Admiral Griff's ships came out very close to the Executor. While large, it's no where near as massive as say a planet. Griff was also in high sublight pursuit of rebels, and presumably, he came out at high sublight velocity and didn't have time to avoid. It is noteworthy that Griff's ships did exit hyperspace prior to impact, though, at least according to Vader's XO.

Event in question

Even dropping out of lightspeed that close to the targget is fairly nasty, given the massive relatavistic deceleration involved (A relatavistic impact, in fact.) And we don't quite know what dropped them out of hyperspace (I think Curtis speculated on SWTC that its possible that a collision like that might cause the mass to revert back to realspace (the altenrative, I believe is that the mass of the object gets converted into energy as it decelrates towards c.)

[Azazal]

Just out of curiosity I did some math.

Going by what Mike has posted as a reasonable guess on the strength of an ISD's shields - ISD Shields We have a listing of 24000 MT capacity.

So going by that, I figured out M for a projectile traveling at C, hopefully my math is right, is not, please tear it apart.

C = 299792458 m/s
KE = 24000 MT = 1.00416E20 J

1.00416E20 = .5M*(299792458^2)

Once all said in done I'm getting a mass of 2235 Kg

Using the upper limit Mike listed for the ISD shields - 9E20, I'm getting a mass of 20028 Kg.


Of course this would only knock down the shields, how much punch you would need to do crippling damage to an ISD, not sure myself.

[nightmare]

Well, I can tell you there are two problems without checking it further. c = infinite mass. Only objects with zero mass can be at c. Also, ISD shields need to be upgraded a bit since the Acclamator had 7e22 w peak shielding, if I'm not mistaken.

[Azazal]

Well, I can tell you there are two problems without checking it further. c = infinite mass.

Dough, sure use physics to make me look bad

[nightmare]

Sorry, wasn't trying to. IIRC, the formula is m = m0/sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2).

[Azazal]

Sorry, wasn't trying to. IIRC, the formula is m = m0/sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2).

No problem, like I said, if you see and error point it out, I would rather be corrected then go on with an invalid point.

[Mr Bean]

If we use the Bakura explination(In the Han Solo and Co go on a field trip books.) Mass-shadows not only drag ships out of hyperspace, but if you try to keep going within the gravity well, the hyperdrive generator will over-heat and detonate rather prettly. Meaning that firing solid projectiles with a hyperdrive attached would result in the projectile either re-entering realspace completly off course thanks to the fact the back half of it just exploded.... Or it will remain in hyperspace and be destroyed.


Several EU books mention the fact that anything outside the Hyperspace bubble in Hyperspace is quickly ripped down to the sub-atomic stage due to Hyperspaces very high energy state.

[Ender]

but enginneering an FTL collision that does serious damage to the STL target seems impossible.

when a tachyonic mass collides with a baryonic mass to collapses to a wave, releasing its equivlent mass energy. The ROTS ICS makes mention of this, saying a republic star battlecruiser killed a planet in a hyperdrive accident.

The BFC bit was more about remote exertion of force then annihilating the target.

[nightmare]

The ROTS ICS makes mention of this, saying a republic star battlecruiser killed a planet in a hyperdrive accident.

Oh, I remember that now. Okay, so we can establish that destruction at direct impact goes both ways (good), and the "hyperenergy spheres" may be just a speciality weapon.

[Sea Skimmer]

when a tachyonic mass collides with a baryonic mass to collapses to a wave, releasing its equivlent mass energy. The ROTS ICS makes mention of this, saying a republic star battlecruiser killed a planet in a hyperdrive accident.

Do you recall the page? I dont recall reading that before, and it would be intresting to see if it says what kind of accident. I wiouldn't expect a Star Wars BC even needs something so exocit as a hyperdrive exploding to wipe out a planet anyway, a sublight crash with do that.

[NRS Guardian]

Do you recall the page? I dont recall reading that before, and it would be intresting to see if it says what kind of accident. I wiouldn't expect a Star Wars BC even needs something so exocit as a hyperdrive exploding to wipe out a planet anyway, a sublight crash with do that.

It is the page with the Invisible Hand just below the emergency airspeeder box.

Invisible Hand was built in a factory in the tunneled Quarren colony world of Pammant. The planet was recently devastated with with radioactivity and fractured to the core by a cataclysmic hyperspace accident involving the Republic's Star Battlecruiser Quaestor.

[Cykeisme]

IIRC, the less kinetic energy that tachhonic matter has, the faster it goes. Does this mean that ships in hyperspace can only go at speeds far in excess of c? They wouldn't be able to slow down to C because that's as hard as trying to speed up to relativistic velocities when they're baryonic.

Anyway, if a ship in hyperspace with kinetic energy X were to collide with something, would the effects be any more severe (in terms of energy dumped into the target) than a collision in realspace with the identical X amount of kinetic energy?

[Star-Blighter]

IIRC, the less kinetic energy that tachhonic matter has, the faster it goes. Does this mean that ships in hyperspace can only go at speeds far in excess of c? They wouldn't be able to slow down to C because that's as hard as trying to speed up to relativistic velocities when they're baryonic.

Ships could feasibly slow down to relatively low FTL speeds if they have a powerfull enough drive. I suppose it would be similar to engine breaking at very high sublight speeds, only it gets harder as you slow down.

[nightmare]

IIRC, the less kinetic energy that tachhonic matter has, the faster it goes. Does this mean that ships in hyperspace can only go at speeds far in excess of c? They wouldn't be able to slow down to C because that's as hard as trying to speed up to relativistic velocities when they're baryonic.

The HIMS device from Bakura says otherwise. Of course, this is not consistent with Dr. Saxton's theories.

[18-Till-I-Die]

It is the page with the Invisible Hand just below the emergency airspeeder box.

Invisible Hand was built in a factory in the tunneled Quarren colony world of Pammant. The planet was recently devastated with with radioactivity and fractured to the core by a cataclysmic hyperspace accident involving the Republic's Star Battlecruiser Quaestor.

Hmmm...

Firstly i wonder then, why this isnt used as a terrorist weapon against shielded planets.

Secondly...the Quarren colony builds the Invisible Hand...and just HAPPENS to be involved in a literally world-shatterin 'accident' with a Republic star ship. Think of the various reasons that sounds fishy.

[Cykeisme]

This is just my own take on things, nothing official, but I'm guessing that you simply can't violate CoE, and there are more efficient ways )than colliding hyperspace objects into targets) to direct the energy that you generate for destructive purposes.

I would assume that the most efficient manner to do this is through turbolaser cannons (or a superlaser), which is why that is precisely what is done.

[Aquatain]

Well you got druids and hyperspace caperble starships..if this was a usefull tactic i'm sure it's pretty easy to program druids into kamakazi attacks on cap ships/planets.

[Batman]

Invisible Hand was built in a factory in the tunneled Quarren colony world of Pammant. The planet was recently devastated with with radioactivity and fractured to the core by a cataclysmic hyperspace accident involving the Republic's Star Battlecruiser Quaestor.

Hmmm...
Firstly i wonder then, why this isnt used as a terrorist weapon against shielded planets.

Maybe on account of the shield being in the way?

[Spartan]

Well let's see:

1. Most hyperspace jumps terminate at the systems primary (star), not the planet. Apparently they aim for the star, and let its gravity pull then back to real space, well away from the planet (ref: X-wing novels).

2. Core World planets have very restricted and very heavily policed hyperspace reversion lanes, that were well away from the planet (ref: Corellian trilogy).

3. Even an expensive military spacecraft like an ISD, can only alter course a few degrees after making a jump, most others can't even do that much. (Ref: ATOC novel, and Dark Empire).

4. Hyperwave sensors have a useful range on at minimum several light days (ref: ROTS: ICS). So, incoming vessels can be detected well outside of the System at least. Hyperwave is of course far faster than any hyperdrive.



So, it brakes down like this, any legitimate vessel will either reverted near the systems primary, or into a designated area of space closer to the planet. Incoming vessels can be seen from far off, and are very restricted in there ability to alter course. Hyperspace controllers, undoubtly monitor system traffic, think air traffic controllers.

If an vessel is on a course that will intersect with the planet, its a safe bet it either was a mis-calculated jump or an intentional threat. At which point they raise shields or blast it, etc.

[Cykeisme]

3. Even an expensive military spacecraft like an ISD, can only alter course a few degrees after making a jump, most others can't even do that much. (Ref: ATOC novel, and Dark Empire).

Hmm, I'm guessing that this is due to navigational and computational limitations, rather than actual physical limits on hyperspace travel.
Reference Han Solo's explanation about complex calculations to avoid flying into a star, and that's just for a precalculated jump without course changes; course changes in hyperspace are very dangerous.

Any thoughts?

[Spartan]

Cykeisme wrote:

Hmm, I'm guessing that this is due to navigational and computational limitations, rather than actual physical limits on hyperspace travel.
Reference Han Solo's explanation about complex calculations to avoid flying into a star, and that's just for a precalculated jump without course changes; course changes in hyperspace are very dangerous.

I would like to agree with you on this as it would make sense. But in the ATOC novelization Obi-wan flatly states that it is not possible to change course until after the jump is completed.

Ofcourse you could always say that Obi-wan is no hyperspace engineer, and at that point in the story he doesn't have access to information on classified military hyperdrives, he is a glorified cop after all. From the Corellian trilogy we known that military hyperdrives are far more acurate than civilian ones.

It goes without saying that you have to be able to jump back to realspace when ever you want of else the emergency hyperspace cutoff wouldn't work. So, yeah the writer blew that one, unfortunately its a high level canon fuck up.