GW/WH40K modelling/gaming discussion thread

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2006-02-02 01:57pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Kojiro wrote:Best advice I can give is to get friendly with your local GW staff. They have boxes of bits like you wouldn't believe and they seldom care about a few extra plastic anythings.
.
How friendly are we talking about here? I am a married man.

Seriously, though, they are allowed to give away spare bitz?

If they know you on sight as a regualr, there is a good chance of free bitz and pieces.

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2006-02-02 04:23pm

Gragh, Necrons Warriors are so annoying to assemble. It's bloody difficult to hold both the arms in the shoulder sockets and glue the hand onto the gun. Can anyone give me some tips?

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2006-02-02 05:45pm

Manus Celer Dei wrote:Gragh, Necrons Warriors are so annoying to assemble. It's bloody difficult to hold both the arms in the shoulder sockets and glue the hand onto the gun. Can anyone give me some tips?

Are you using tradional plastic glue? If so a trick I found that works is to put a drop of glue in the shoulder socket and then let it sit for a minute. This will soften the plastic a fair amount, then when you put the arms into the sockets, they hold right away VS having to hold then there.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-02-02 06:07pm

Ooh, I gots a question.

What's a good list for essential/beginner's terrain pieces, and what sort of stuff beyond that is popular or sought after? I've been making some gothic building ruins and defence emplacements and was about to make some textured hills, impassible rock structures, bunkers, and rubble piles, but I'm not completely sure what to focus on and could use some more ideas beyond GW's website.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-02-02 06:14pm

Utsanomiko wrote:Ooh, I gots a question.

What's a good list for essential/beginner's terrain pieces, and what sort of stuff beyond that is popular or sought after? I've been making some gothic building ruins and defence emplacements and was about to make some textured hills, impassible rock structures, bunkers, and rubble piles, but I'm not completely sure what to focus on and could use some more ideas beyond GW's website.

Depends on who you're playing with, really. My friends and I have amassed a collection of trees, hills, ruins, an expanse of green felt, and a crapload of bunkers, sandbags, emplacements, and supply dumps. Some of it's handmade, some store-bought.

If I had to recommend anything in particular, it's variety. Battles with the same dozen terrain pieces get stale. My friends and I have been itching to do a real urban battle, but that's expensive. For a beginner, even stuff around the house works fine. We played a 500pt skirmish here at college (where we don't have our terrain) and made a respectable city block intersection out of boxes and books.

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2006-02-02 09:09pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:
Utsanomiko wrote:Ooh, I gots a question.

What's a good list for essential/beginner's terrain pieces, and what sort of stuff beyond that is popular or sought after? I've been making some gothic building ruins and defence emplacements and was about to make some textured hills, impassible rock structures, bunkers, and rubble piles, but I'm not completely sure what to focus on and could use some more ideas beyond GW's website.
Depends on who you're playing with, really. My friends and I have amassed a collection of trees, hills, ruins, an expanse of green felt, and a crapload of bunkers, sandbags, emplacements, and supply dumps. Some of it's handmade, some store-bought.

If I had to recommend anything in particular, it's variety. Battles with the same dozen terrain pieces get stale. My friends and I have been itching to do a real urban battle, but that's expensive. For a beginner, even stuff around the house works fine. We played a 500pt skirmish here at college (where we don't have our terrain) and made a respectable city block intersection out of boxes and books.

Believe it or not, but books are a great beginner's terrain. Get several different sizes. Stack them for a stepped hill, or open then slightly and they can become a building wall. Play with them several times and that will give you an idea of what you like.

For more advanced terrain, I recommend: http://www.terragenesis.co.uk/

There is quite literally a ton of shit there.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2006-02-02 10:20pm

Azazal wrote:
If they know you on sight as a regualr, there is a good chance of free bitz and pieces.

They know me, but have yet to offer anything for free.. Perhaps I shall have to endear myself to them by talking in a comradely fashion...

As for terrain... I got the Battle for McCragge set and sometimes supplement the terrain with shoeboxes and papertowel rolls and stuff. For Battlefleet Gothic, we use a lot of styrafoam balls coated with glue and sand, as well as the standard dyed cottonball "Mutara" Nebulas of Death.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2006-02-02 10:21pm

I tend to use the citadel superglue for all of my gluing. Is plastic glue superior in many ways, or does it not make much of a difference?

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2006-02-02 10:42pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:I tend to use the citadel superglue for all of my gluing. Is plastic glue superior in many ways, or does it not make much of a difference?

Plastic glue actully softens the plastic, so instead of a friction bond the plastic is welded together. You get a stronger plastic to plastic bond. Super glue is best when doing small metal to metal or plastic to metal. If you were doing large metal to metal, like a greater daemon, then pinning with a 2 part epoxy tends to give you a better grip.

Also if you can get a superglue other then GW's I would recommed that as well. I've found that their version is a bit sub-par. I find it to be too brittle once cured. I use "Jet" brand, I find it to have a really good gripping bond and it has a bit of flex so that an accidential bump will cause the joint bend a touch insted of just break. If there is a hobby shop that specializes in RC planes and trains, check there for the general hobby superglue.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-02-03 12:28am

Superglue also eats foam, IIRC, so that's something important to remember when making terrain pieces.

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-02-03 01:43am

[quote=""Bob the Gunslinger"]They know me, but have yet to offer anything for free.. Perhaps I shall have to endear myself to them by talking in a comradely fashion...[/quote]
They deal with a lot of people. You really have to get their attention to garner such favours. When I worked there we gave away a whole lot of stuff to the people we liked and looted the bits boxes for ourselves regularly.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-02-15 03:54pm

I did a search in GW's classic store for 'Squats' and they blocked my IP.

But seriously, you folks have left this thread stagnate too long. I'll try warming it up with a few questions off the top of my head:

If a Marine Chapter with Codex deviations Seen but Don't Be Seen and Trust Your Battle Brothers[/i] gives its veterans or command squad True Grit + Counter-Attack for +3 and Infiltrate for another +3, can they take one of their vet skills (Tank Hunters, Furrious Charge) as well? I'd assume it's legal, but it sounds a bit wasteful of points at the least.

Also, I was thinking of eventually doing a 400-500pt Black Templars force with a Witch hunters contingent; Maybe 10 Initiates + Castellan and a squad of SoS for now. I'd eventually pump it up to 1000pts with extra close combat-oriented Marines and additional shooty Ordo Hereticus units like an Inquisitor Lord & retinue (Guard vets, Calculus Logi, Acolytes, Executioner, chiefly), Vindicare Assassin (or Priest & Acro-Flagellants, alternatively), and a Dominion Squad + Immolator.
Maybe some Celestians, Stormtroopers/Adeptus Arbites, or Terminators too (I picked up two boxes of 5 for $22 each, might sell one and use the other in my main army). I'm mainly going for a striking visual army look, an old-school gothic feel, with lots of dark reds on black and aged gold colors. But I'd like some advice on keeping a good balance of shooty and choppy.

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2006-02-15 04:28pm

Utsanomiko wrote: If a Marine Chapter with Codex deviations Seen but Don't Be Seen and Trust Your Battle Brothers[/i] gives its veterans or command squad True Grit + Counter-Attack for +3 and Infiltrate for another +3, can they take one of their vet skills (Tank Hunters, Furrious Charge) as well? I'd assume it's legal, but it sounds a bit wasteful of points at the least.

I don't have my codex with me, what with being at work and all. But two reactions come to mind:
1, I thought marines were limited to 2 skills total, but I could be wrong, need to check when I get home.
2, you're dumping a lot of points into 1 unit. 3 skills per marine, you're looking at 90 extra points in a full 10 man squad. If you have a command and a vet squad, that 180 points, you could have another squad of marines on the table for that. So while the extra skills help to make a good background, on the tabletop, you want numbers on your side.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-02-15 04:32pm

I just have see but not seen, and the one that lets me sacrifice my heavy weapon for an extra melta....

yes that's right tank hunting, infiltrating devestators......

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-02-15 05:23pm

Azazal wrote:
Utsanomiko wrote: If a Marine Chapter with Codex deviations Seen but Don't Be Seen and Trust Your Battle Brothers[/i] gives its veterans or command squad True Grit + Counter-Attack for +3 and Infiltrate for another +3, can they take one of their vet skills (Tank Hunters, Furrious Charge) as well? I'd assume it's legal, but it sounds a bit wasteful of points at the least.
I don't have my codex with me, what with being at work and all. But two reactions come to mind:
1, I thought marines were limited to 2 skills total, but I could be wrong, need to check when I get home.
2, you're dumping a lot of points into 1 unit. 3 skills per marine, you're looking at 90 extra points in a full 10 man squad. If you have a command and a vet squad, that 180 points, you could have another squad of marines on the table for that. So while the extra skills help to make a good background, on the tabletop, you want numbers on your
side.

That's what I was thinking. I'm actually working on DPDarkPrimus' army list, of which he owns only a small amount of models (1 Commander, Command Squad Marines x5, 20 Tactical Marines, 1 Dreadnought), and was trying to get the most out of it. I was looking for ways to get the most out of it, which probably wil involve getting it to 880 and adding a 120-point Bike squad.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-02-15 06:48pm

that sounds like how many models I have, except I have two speeders, an assault squad, and a jump pack equiped librarian, along with an unassembled devy squad.

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2006-02-15 08:29pm

Utsanomiko wrote:
Azazal wrote:
Utsanomiko wrote: If a Marine Chapter with Codex deviations Seen but Don't Be Seen and Trust Your Battle Brothers[/i] gives its veterans or command squad True Grit + Counter-Attack for +3 and Infiltrate for another +3, can they take one of their vet skills (Tank Hunters, Furrious Charge) as well? I'd assume it's legal, but it sounds a bit wasteful of points at the least.
I don't have my codex with me, what with being at work and all. But two reactions come to mind:
1, I thought marines were limited to 2 skills total, but I could be wrong, need to check when I get home.
2, you're dumping a lot of points into 1 unit. 3 skills per marine, you're looking at 90 extra points in a full 10 man squad. If you have a command and a vet squad, that 180 points, you could have another squad of marines on the table for that. So while the extra skills help to make a good background, on the tabletop, you want numbers on your
side.
That's what I was thinking. I'm actually working on DPDarkPrimus' army list, of which he owns only a small amount of models (1 Commander, Command Squad Marines x5, 20 Tactical Marines, 1 Dreadnought), and was trying to get the most out of it. I was looking for ways to get the most out of it, which probably wil involve getting it to 880 and adding a 120-point Bike squad.

I stand corrected, no limit listed on the number of skills for marines that I can find in the codex. But I stand by "that's a damn lot of points per marine" statement.

As for getting the max, if the damn server for Bolter & Chainsword hadn;t taken a dump I wuld direct you there, the regulars there would be able to give you about a dozen options in a few seconds.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-02-15 09:56pm

Utsanomiko wrote:Also, I was thinking of eventually doing a 400-500pt Black Templars force with a Witch hunters contingent; Maybe 10 Initiates + Castellan and a squad of SoS for now. I'd eventually pump it up to 1000pts with extra close combat-oriented Marines and additional shooty Ordo Hereticus units like an Inquisitor Lord & retinue (Guard vets, Calculus Logi, Acolytes, Executioner, chiefly), Vindicare Assassin (or Priest & Acro-Flagellants, alternatively), and a Dominion Squad + Immolator.
Maybe some Celestians, Stormtroopers/Adeptus Arbites, or Terminators too (I picked up two boxes of 5 for $22 each, might sell one and use the other in my main army). I'm mainly going for a striking visual army look, an old-school gothic feel, with lots of dark reds on black and aged gold colors. But I'd like some advice on keeping a good balance of shooty and choppy.

Bear in mind that while Witchhunters are indeed awesome, Templar will not fight alongside psykers of any sort. Which means you'd be giving up the utterly mouth-watering Hammer of the Witches and Purgatus abilities an Inquisitor Lord can take. Aside from that though, I applaud your taste.

And the Marines thing could be trickier than it looks. I do not have my codices with me here at college (remember that precise wording can be important), but as I recall GW's army-builder-thingimadigit had some issues with stacking veteran skills like that.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-02-15 11:37pm

Small question:

Who here has experience with the large 54mm Inquisitor models? I'm contemplating getting one for fun-- not playin' with it or anything, just painting it and displaying, perhaps customizing slightly. It's either that or a Land Raider, perhaps a squad of regular minis, depends on price.

Advice? Comments? Observations?

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-02-15 11:57pm

I have the marine and the inquisitor with the sword and shoulder mounted psycannon. Near as I can tell there's no reason to treat them any different to normal models except to make sure your highlighting is a little more subtle. Large models generate their own shadows and highlights and don't take well to sharp highlights.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-02-16 02:11am

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote: Bear in mind that while Witchhunters are indeed awesome, Templar will not fight alongside psykers of any sort. Which means you'd be giving up the utterly mouth-watering Hammer of the Witches and Purgatus abilities an Inquisitor Lord can take. Aside from that though, I applaud your taste.

And the Marines thing could be trickier than it looks. I do not have my codices with me here at college (remember that precise wording can be important), but as I recall GW's army-builder-thingimadigit had some issues with stacking veteran skills like that.

I've only read BT's reference sheet, summary codex differences, and a couple unit costs. As long as Inquisitors only count as psykers when given psychic abilities/henchman (which is the case from what I've read), I'm fine. I really just want the addition of close-combat Adeptus Astartes to some various Witchhunters. Which includes a Puritan Inquisitor and his angry toadies, like an old Necromunda Deacon as an Excoriator and some Mordheim models with a few extra bits and green stuff.

Anyway, I think I've fixed the issue with the Marine list. I knocked off Furrious Charge from the command squad and another set of skills from the troops, freeing up 78 points. For now I have it reduced by another 25 by changing the Vet Sgt with Power fist to a normal sgt, which gave them room for 3 bikes + flamer. I guess I could take that 25 from something else if needed (the Champion has term honors, purity scrolls, and a plasma pistol, so that 25 pts may or may not be better spent on a Tactical Squad's Sergeant).
On the plus side, it reduces to a 500 point army of 2 troop units + commander rather easily.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-02-17 03:33am

Looks like I'll be creating a Tyranids force right after Marines: I picked up Battle for Macragge, 2 boxes of Warriors (6 warriors total), and a box of 16 Gaunts for $32.60.

So if add the battle set, I could have 42 gaunts, 9 Warriors, 14 stealers, and a Carnifex for a little over a hundred bucks. Yeah, I'm sure I'll manage with them for that price.

Anywhodizzle, I remembered an Ork question today. After reading through Penny Arcade's 40k thread, I had become further inspired to build up a decent Ork force (after assembling & paying off some of this other stuff. I've got some terrain made and a few extra kits to sell). I'm interested in the opportunity of scratch-building several vehicles, such as wartraks and wartruks. Two things I'd also like to make are mounted Orks (Squig riders, of which I finally found concept art for. I may hold off on making my own if the finals come out and look good) and a big ol' Squiggoth, puttied up with lots of mean scaley features, chompy teeth, and a rickety gun-laden howdah on the back.

As far as I know they're only available to Feral Orks, and I'm not too content with its changes to troops nor its ommissions of several units I'd want to make, like looted tanks. Is there an Ork army variation that allows the selection of those two things (Snakebites, perhaps), or am I stuck with modelling my boyz to fit in with both armies ('sorta-feral') and swap between fielding different units?

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2006-02-17 03:41am

Honestly, beats the Hells out of me. The Ork codex is not only goddamned ancient, but part of the really shoddy early-3rd Edition release. GW has rather infuriatingly avoided doing the desperately needed 4th Ed updates to Orks and Eldar when other armies have multiple 3rd, 3.5, and/or 4th Ed codices (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, YOU BLUE-SKINNED FISHY ANIME COMMIE FREAKS. NEED A NEW CODEX MY POWER-ARMORED ASS).

[/rant]

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-02-17 04:04am

here, here

the closest thing they have to that, is the fact that there are apparently new DE units curtesy of "Chapter Approved"

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2006-02-17 05:21am

I know, the Ork Codex I've skimmed through is rather wonky, particularly in its listings. I noticed the same issue a lot closer to homw with BA's army list and update faq, which does nothing to rectify the fact their Assault Vets are assault versions of 3e veterans, yet they now use 4e vets. I won't even think of making Assault Vets untill they're fixed (apply the changes between 3e vets & assault vets to 4e vets).

I'm just hoping that Ork concept art hints at a new Codex by the end of fall. I don't care if they take time to tweak the rules or add extra units to some armies as long as it's not halting the overhaul of the major stuff.