Culture vs SW scenario

[The Nomad]

A Culture military General Systems Vehicle ( a big one, Idiran-war time ) , with a crew of mostly psychopath offensive drones and sadistic genofixed renegade Culture humans, ruled by three evil Minds, the Anal-Raper, the Rabid Trekker and the Darkstar, warps out of a wormhole in the Rim of SW Galaxy. It is escorted by 300 GCUs, 200 ROUs, 100 LOUs, 20 GOUs and other carriers, all of various classes, each one having the heaviest weaponry it can carry, with the GSV capable of building smaller ships and manufacturing ammunitions with the proper resources.

vs

the SW Galaxy, with one octillion I-2 SDs, 1 trillion heavy capships ( Executor, Sovereign, Eclipse... ), 1 million model 2 Death Stars

No reverse engineering.

Let the slaughter begin.[/i]

[Mr Bean]

Culture still wins...

[NecronLord]

Wars wins. The numbers there are too large even for the culture.

[SHODAN]

Only SW weapon that could hit a Culture ship is galaxy gun.

[Cpt_Frank]

In this case, Wars wins.

[GSV Use Psychology]

The Culture takes a few decades to fly around the galaxy provoking every single star to go novae.

[NecronLord]

The Culture takes a few decades to fly around the galaxy provoking every single star to go novae.

Despite having done it a Massive 6 times in their entire history?

[GSV Use Psychology]

The Culture takes a few decades to fly around the galaxy provoking every single star to go novae.

Despite having done it a Massive 6 times in their entire history?

Well since this is a bunch of psychopaths bent on the complete destruction of the SW galaxy I'm assuming that the typical eco-hippy-friendly attitude doesn't apply. Technologically they are capable of it.

"He looked for the Culture ship, then told himself to not to be stupid; it was probably still several trillion kilometres away. That was how divorced from the human scale modern warfare had become. You could smash and destroy from unthinkable distances, obliterate planets from beyond their own system and provoke stars into novae from light-years off . . . and still have no good idea why you were fighting."
Consider Phlebas, page 33

And two stars were destroyed in a relatively short timeframe during the Twin Novae Battle near the end of the war.

[NecronLord]

The Culture takes a few decades to fly around the galaxy provoking every single star to go novae.

Despite having done it a Massive 6 times in their entire history?

Well since this is a bunch of psychopaths bent on the complete destruction of the SW galaxy I'm assuming that the typical eco-hippy-friendly attitude doesn't apply. Technologically they are capable of it.

"He looked for the Culture ship, then told himself to not to be stupid; it was probably still several trillion kilometres away. That was how divorced from the human scale modern warfare had become. You could smash and destroy from unthinkable distances, obliterate planets from beyond their own system and provoke stars into novae from light-years off . . . and still have no good idea why you were fighting."
Consider Phlebas, page 33

And two stars were destroyed in a relatively short timeframe during the Twin Novae Battle near the end of the war.

Yerrsss thank you I have seen that quote before
Aside from mentioning that it does not state what is reqired to provoke a nova. I might also add that centerpoint can do that from fifty thousand lightyears away

[GSV Use Psychology]

I fail to see your point.
The Culture is in general more advanced than the Empire.
The ships are completely mobile and self sufficient, meaning they can always avoid confrontation with the Empire, if necessary.

Culture tactic:
Send ships around the galaxy blowing up stars, or if this is a GSV-only option, major planets. If a ship meets heavy resistance, find another target.

What I really want to know is: How will the Empire stop them?

[NecronLord]

simple. the culture takes a year to 'drag' from the center of the galaxy to the core at full speed on an ROU (PoG) the Empire tekes several hours.

They will meet resistance. a lot of it. every time they try to do anything...

[Alyeska]

A single Culture ship can destroy the entirety of SW. Oh sure, it might take a little time, but they can do it.

Lets put it this way. Who would win in this fight.

A slug armed with an broadsword or a human armed with a flame thrower? How about a billion slugs with broadswords vs a single human with a flame thrower?

The SW forces can NOT hit the Culture ship. If for some reason they did, it would cause ZERO damage to the culture ship.

[Cpt_Frank]

A single Culture ship can destroy the entirety of SW. Oh sure, it might take a little time, but they can do it.

Lets put it this way. Who would win in this fight.

A slug armed with an broadsword or a human armed with a flame thrower? How about a billion slugs with broadswords vs a single human with a flame thrower?

The SW forces can NOT hit the Culture ship. If for some reason they did, it would cause ZERO damage to the culture ship.

read the fucking scenario dumbass.

SW outnumbers the culture forces so badly they will win
(it's like 100 million Defiants vs 1 ISD)

[GSV Use Psychology]

How often have we seen Wars ships fight outside of a planetary system?
How often have they fought at ranges of around 77 light-days?
How will they stop a Culture ships from blowing up a planet/star when it never has to enter the system, assuming it is incapable of doing all of this from hyperspace, and that the Empire could actually find the Culture ship(s).

Effectors could prove effective in controlling/disabling entire fleets. Having your own ship turn on you might cause some distraction. This depends on how reliant SW ships are on human control, which itself is a disadvantage considering how fast Culture combat can be.

What I'm asking is how the Empire even will be able to engage the Culture ships considering the huge range and combat speed advantage. Even an octillion ISDs aren't much of a threat if they're all positioned in-system.

[Alyeska]

A single Culture ship can destroy the entirety of SW. Oh sure, it might take a little time, but they can do it.

Lets put it this way. Who would win in this fight.

A slug armed with an broadsword or a human armed with a flame thrower? How about a billion slugs with broadswords vs a single human with a flame thrower?

The SW forces can NOT hit the Culture ship. If for some reason they did, it would cause ZERO damage to the culture ship.

read the fucking scenario dumbass.

SW outnumbers the culture forces so badly they will win
(it's like 100 million Defiants vs 1 ISD)

Why don't you get a fucking clue then. The SW forces outnumber the Culture forces so badly they merely POSTPONE their own death.

Culture has something called the Trapdoor system which divers ANY amount of firepower into an alternate space. Therefor NOTHING the Empire has can even damage the Culture forces. Then there is the fact that Culture forces fight at light minute, light hour, and even light year ranges. Then there is the fact that the Culture fights at FTL speeds with computers that are so insanely fast that most culture space battles are decided in under a second, and that is with INSANE levels of manuevering.

Then you have the fact that the Culture forces have Effectors which can subvert and take over ANY ship from Star wars. Then you have displacers which will beam blackholes into any ship. Then you have Gridfire which is effectively TOTAL destruction of anything it hits.

[NecronLord]

I am absoloutely fucking sick of all the ludicrous claims out there about the bloody fucking culture. For example "Culture reaction times are in the order of Picoseconds" They aren't they are in Nanoseconds. or "The culture are really fast"

WRONG

they can do around 100,000C and then their engines shred themselves. That is it. SW can do 3,000,000C. Similar for thier communications. And then there are the claims that "any culture ship can destroy a star." NO they have done it six times in several thousand years. KYP DURRON matches that in under a minute in Dark apprentice. "Minds simulate entire realities" no they do not, they apply a different set of parameters as constants and then apply known phonomena to them. That is it.

The culture are overrated.

[Admiral Valdemar]

A single Culture ship can destroy the entirety of SW. Oh sure, it might take a little time, but they can do it.

Lets put it this way. Who would win in this fight.

A slug armed with an broadsword or a human armed with a flame thrower? How about a billion slugs with broadswords vs a single human with a flame thrower?

The SW forces can NOT hit the Culture ship. If for some reason they did, it would cause ZERO damage to the culture ship.

read the fucking scenario dumbass.

SW outnumbers the culture forces so badly they will win
(it's like 100 million Defiants vs 1 ISD)

That doesn't matter. A million ants outnumber one Challenger II MBT. Which wins?

This is so lopsided it isn't even worth bothering with, as a Vulture, I refrain from posting such debates unless each side has a chance or just for a laugh.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I am absoloutely fucking sick of all the ludicrous claims out there about the bloody fucking culture. For example "Culture reaction times are in the order of Picoseconds" They aren't they are in Nanoseconds. or "The culture are really fast"

WRONG

they can do around 100,000C and then their engines shred themselves. That is it. SW can do 3,000,000C. Similar for thier communications. And then there are the claims that "any culture ship can destroy a star." NO they have done it six times in several thousand years. KYP DURRON matches that in under a minute in Dark apprentice. "Minds simulate entire realities" no they do not, they apply a different set of parameters as constants and then apply known phonomena to them. That is it.

The culture are overrated.

You've obviously never seen a Culture battle.

A GCU can breeze through supernovae, this is the same ship you would use as a stellar HMS Beagle, NOT a warship.

Perhaps the fact that the infamous ROU Killing Time flew at 143 TRILLION c and vaped hundreds of ships over near 100 lightyears distance might show that a fleet of Death Stars still has nothing on even the most piddly Culture ship.

[NecronLord]

A single Culture ship can destroy the entirety of SW. Oh sure, it might take a little time, but they can do it.

Lets put it this way. Who would win in this fight.

A slug armed with an broadsword or a human armed with a flame thrower? How about a billion slugs with broadswords vs a single human with a flame thrower?

The SW forces can NOT hit the Culture ship. If for some reason they did, it would cause ZERO damage to the culture ship.

read the fucking scenario dumbass.

SW outnumbers the culture forces so badly they will win
(it's like 100 million Defiants vs 1 ISD)

Why don't you get a fucking clue then. The SW forces outnumber the Culture forces so badly they merely POSTPONE their own death.

Culture has something called the Trapdoor system which divers ANY amount of firepower into an alternate space.

What is the source for that assertion?

Therefor NOTHING the Empire has can even damage the Culture forces. Then there is the fact that Culture forces fight at light minute, light hour, and even light year ranges. Then there is the fact that the Culture fights at FTL speeds with computers that are so insanely fast that most culture space battles are decided in under a second, and that is with INSANE levels of manuevering.

Then you have the fact that the Culture forces have Effectors which can subvert and take over ANY ship from Star wars. Then you have displacers which will beam blackholes into any ship.

BOLLOCKS, NEVER EVER EVER HAVE THEY DONE SO.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It must also be noted that Culture ships do have lax FTL drives, but the whole hyperspace and backup warp thing counters any speed advantage with sheer tactical pros.

Sprint speeds alone dwarf that of the fastest SW ship. It may only last a millionth of a second, but it still shows that it beats SW even on speed if they have to.

Communications is a grey area (excuse the pun) since we have seen Minds talk in realtime over unknown distances. Plus bare in mind that the limits placed in The Player of Games is still hundreds of years prior to Look to Windward.

Minds can and do simulate realities, Banks himself said that they routinely run what new universes with different sets of physical laws would be like to live in. This is Infinite Funland to them.

[NecronLord]

I am absoloutely fucking sick of all the ludicrous claims out there about the bloody fucking culture. For example "Culture reaction times are in the order of Picoseconds" They aren't they are in Nanoseconds. or "The culture are really fast"

WRONG

they can do around 100,000C and then their engines shred themselves. That is it. SW can do 3,000,000C. Similar for thier communications. And then there are the claims that "any culture ship can destroy a star." NO they have done it six times in several thousand years. KYP DURRON matches that in under a minute in Dark apprentice. "Minds simulate entire realities" no they do not, they apply a different set of parameters as constants and then apply known phonomena to them. That is it.

The culture are overrated.

You've obviously never seen a Culture battle.

Actually I have, or at least read excession

A GCU can breeze through supernovae, this is the same ship you would use as a stellar HMS Beagle, NOT a warship.

Aside from a) for most of the Iridian war GCUs were used as fighting ships. Have you got a reference for this?

Perhaps the fact that the infamous ROU Killing Time flew at 143 TRILLION c and vaped hundreds of ships over near 100 lightyears distance might show that a fleet of Death Stars still has nothing on even the most piddly Culture ship.

It did damage it's engines did it not? Aside from which I am still not very impressed, even a humble Jackal class necron escort would leave it standing.
It vaped a huge whopping grand total of two The ships it vaped were centuries old antiques, this is like putting a modern cruser against seveal hundered Mary Rose type ships.

[E1701]

Heh, you understate it as usual, AV...

Killing Time, pulled hundreds of trillions of c, obliterated a whole fleet of Torturer-class ROU's in a formation a hundred light-years long, and caused the rogue Mind to suicide with a passing shot from it's effector.... in 11 microseconds.

An 800-year out of date GCU in Consider Phlebas sat within a solar corona for days waiting for an Idiiran ship to happen by. And GCU's are like the Culture's version of the Rodger Young. Gridfire from a single GSV was used to *artistically* annihilate Vavatch orbital in under fifteen minutes... and that's a structure more than 14 million km in diameter, and thirty-five thousand km wide.


Have you actually even read any of the books, NecronLord? It sure doesn't sound that way. At long distance, their FTL is slow (which is what would hurt them against say, the Foundation Federation), but that's not even an issue here. They can take their sweet time, stopping to wipe out whole planetary populations with just E-dust and knife-missiles... nothing in SW can possibly stop them, no matter how many you've got. And slow is still relative... Sleeper Service managed 200,000 c in the lower bands of hyperspace after having converted more of it's interior into engine-mass. In this case, it'd be more likely that these crazy Minds would convert most of their internal space into weapon mass...

Oh, and let's not forget the pancakers, line-guns, displacers, nanoholes, CAM, etc...

[SHODAN]

Culture has something called the Trapdoor system which divers ANY amount of firepower into an alternate space. Therefor NOTHING the Empire has can even damage the Culture forces. Then there is the fact that Culture forces fight at light minute, light hour, and even light year ranges. Then there is the fact that the Culture fights at FTL speeds with computers that are so insanely fast that most culture space battles are decided in under a second, and that is with INSANE levels of manuevering.

The battle between Killing Time and renegade fleet lasted eleven microseconds, but there is no description of any ship maneuvering. The ROU just rushed through enemy fleet.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Culture has something called the Trapdoor system which divers ANY amount of firepower into an alternate space. Therefor NOTHING the Empire has can even damage the Culture forces. Then there is the fact that Culture forces fight at light minute, light hour, and even light year ranges. Then there is the fact that the Culture fights at FTL speeds with computers that are so insanely fast that most culture space battles are decided in under a second, and that is with INSANE levels of manuevering.

The battle between Killing Time and renegade fleet lasted eleven microseconds, but there is no description of any ship maneuvering. The ROU just rushed through enemy fleet.

And flipped around again. At such speeds you cannot really manouevre, it is a case if using weapons instead and relying on getting it right. But that is no problem when you use wormholes to shift your weapons.

[NecronLord]

It must also be noted that Culture ships do have lax FTL drives, but the whole hyperspace and backup warp thing counters any speed advantage with sheer tactical pros.

Sprint speeds alone dwarf that of the fastest SW ship. It may only last a millionth of a second, but it still shows that it beats SW even on speed if they have to.

Yes and a thrown rock can go faster than a car travelling at 30MPH but it will hit the ground a lot sooner

Communications is a grey area (excuse the pun) since we have seen Minds talk in realtime over unknown distances. Plus bare in mind that the limits placed in The Player of Games is still hundreds of years prior to Look to Windward.

Minds can and do simulate realities, Banks himself said that they routinely run what new universes with different sets of physical laws would be like to live in. This is Infinite Funland to them.

Yes, but not in the way some particularly rabid fools claim. Metamathematics does not create new individual life forms, merely simulations.