Culture vs SW scenario

[E1701]

Killing Time didn't manuever, but IIRC, the opposing ROU's tried to make a break for it, shattering their last formation to catch it in the cross-fire, but they were hampered by slower reaction times, and weren't able to pull it off before they were plastered.


GCU's were used as the main ships in the Idiiran War *before* they'd militarized their ROU's and GSV's... which is how they won in the end. It takes the Culture a long time to wake up enough to go ballistic, but as soon as they do... "Don't fuck with the Culture"...

[Admiral Valdemar]

Heh, you understate it as usual, AV...

Killing Time, pulled hundreds of trillions of c, obliterated a whole fleet of Torturer-class ROU's in a formation a hundred light-years long, and caused the rogue Mind to suicide with a passing shot from it's effector.... in 11 microseconds.

An 800-year out of date GCU in Consider Phlebas sat within a solar corona for days waiting for an Idiiran ship to happen by. And GCU's are like the Culture's version of the Rodger Young. Gridfire from a single GSV was used to *artistically* annihilate Vavatch orbital in under fifteen minutes... and that's a structure more than 14 million km in diameter, and thirty-five thousand km wide.


Have you actually even read any of the books, NecronLord? It sure doesn't sound that way. At long distance, their FTL is slow (which is what would hurt them against say, the Foundation Federation), but that's not even an issue here. They can take their sweet time, stopping to wipe out whole planetary populations with just E-dust and knife-missiles... nothing in SW can possibly stop them, no matter how many you've got. And slow is still relative... Sleeper Service managed 200,000 c in the lower bands of hyperspace after having converted more of it's interior into engine-mass. In this case, it'd be more likely that these crazy Minds would convert most of their internal space into weapon mass...

Oh, and let's not forget the pancakers, line-guns, displacers, nanoholes, CAM, etc...

I merely don't want to come off as an asshole (too late ) and I don't see the Culture as the be all, end all of sci-fi. But I also haven't got my books at uni with me so I'm using my head with this one.

You are deluding yourself if you think SW has a chance against the Culture though.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Yes and a thrown rock can go faster than a car travelling at 30MPH but it will hit the ground a lot sooner

Your point? SW still can't hit them.

Yes, but not in the way some particularly rabid fools claim. Metamathematics does not create new individual life forms, merely simulations.

That's what I was getting at. Simulations of new universes with everything in it as would be expected. If you can't see how this is damned good computing power then I suggest you cite a better example from SW.

[NecronLord]

Yes and a thrown rock can go faster than a car travelling at 30MPH but it will hit the ground a lot sooner

Your point? SW still can't hit them.

Yes, but not in the way some particularly rabid fools claim. Metamathematics does not create new individual life forms, merely simulations.

That's what I was getting at. Simulations of new universes with everything in it as would be expected. If you can't see how this is damned good computing power then I suggest you cite a better example from SW.

I don't need to the rant above is over how stupidly overrated they are.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Aside from a) for most of the Iridian war GCUs were used as fighting ships. Have you got a reference for this?

If you read the epilogue, you'd know that the Culture held back for over 20 years and never made an attempt to fight back since all they reall had were GCUs due to not having a war in ages. The GCUs were "gunned up" and still smacking Idiran craft up, but they are nothing compared to dedicated warships.

It did damage it's engines did it not? Aside from which I am still not very impressed, even a humble Jackal class necron escort would leave it standing.
It vaped a huge whopping grand total of two The ships it vaped were centuries old antiques, this is like putting a modern cruser against seveal hundered Mary Rose type ships.

It took a whopping two minutes to repair that damage, and it's canon it could carry on for over 12 hours at that rate. Deal with it.

It actually vaped a lot more than two, it effectorised more. Read it again. And by the way, did you read how the Attitude Adjuster said ti was PLAYING with it and merely toying or did you conveniently miss out the quote saying the ROU could have owned them all in no time at all and with no problem? Have you read Excession or just claiming to?

[NecronLord]

GCU's were used as the main ships in the Idiiran War *before* they'd militarized their ROU's and GSV's... which is how they won in the end. It takes the Culture a long time to wake up enough to go ballistic, but as soon as they do... "Don't fuck with the Culture"...

They didn't even Have ROUs until half way though the Iridian war.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Your point? SW still can't hit them.
That's what I was getting at. Simulations of new universes with everything in it as would be expected. If you can't see how this is damned good computing power then I suggest you cite a better example from SW.

I don't need to the rant above is over how stupidly overrated they are.

Aww, that's cute. And you haven't combatted any of the reasons I have stated on why the Culture would own the SW universe.

I believe this is where I use the term, how you say, concession accepted?

[GSV Use Psychology]

I am absoloutely fucking sick of all the ludicrous claims out there about the bloody fucking culture. For example "Culture reaction times are in the order of Picoseconds" They aren't they are in Nanoseconds. or "The culture are really fast"

I agree with you on the nanosecond reaction times. Still way faster than SW though.

WRONG

they can do around 100,000C and then their engines shred themselves. That is it. SW can do 3,000,000C. Similar for thier communications.

So? They might not be the best in existance but they serve their purpose.
Culture hyperspace is still more useful tactically.

And then there are the claims that "any culture ship can destroy a star." NO they have done it six times in several thousand years. KYP DURRON matches that in under a minute in Dark apprentice. "Minds simulate entire realities" no they do not, they apply a different set of parameters as constants and then apply known phonomena to them. That is it.

They don't always destroy stars since it wouldn't serve any real purpose and doesn't fit with their philosophy. Same thing with planets. We don't see ISDs go around BDZ:ing stuff all the time either. The smaller ships might not be able to go star popping, but planets are a another story.

I never believed that the Minds simulate entire universes in a second.

"They imagined entirely new universes with altered physical laws, and played with them, lived in them and tinkered with them, sometimes setting up the conditions for life, sometimes just letting things run to see if it would arise spontaneously, sometimes arranging things so that life was impossible, but other kinds and types of bizarrely fabulous complications were enabled"

It seems to be more along the lines of a mega Life-simulation/Virtual reality.

The culture are overrated.

They still beat SW though

[Admiral Valdemar]

GCU's were used as the main ships in the Idiiran War *before* they'd militarized their ROU's and GSV's... which is how they won in the end. It takes the Culture a long time to wake up enough to go ballistic, but as soon as they do... "Don't fuck with the Culture"...

They didn't even Have ROUs until half way though the Iridian war.

They did, they didn't have many, keep up junior.

They ALWAYS have warships leftover but nowhere near as many needed. Again, if you read Excession then you'd know this because the rock Pittance stores such ships when not needed.

[NecronLord]

Aside from a) for most of the Iridian war GCUs were used as fighting ships. Have you got a reference for this?

If you read the epilogue, you'd know that the Culture held back for over 20 years and never made an attempt to fight back since all they reall had were GCUs due to not having a war in ages. The GCUs were "gunned up" and still smacking Idiran craft up, but they are nothing compared to dedicated warships.

It did damage it's engines did it not? Aside from which I am still not very impressed, even a humble Jackal class necron escort would leave it standing.
It vaped a huge whopping grand total of two The ships it vaped were centuries old antiques, this is like putting a modern cruser against seveal hundered Mary Rose type ships.

It took a whopping two minutes to repair that damage, and it's canon it could carry on for over 12 hours at that rate. Deal with it.

It actually vaped a lot more than two, it effectorised more. Read it again. And by the way, did you read how the Attitude Adjuster said ti was PLAYING with it and merely toying or did you conveniently miss out the quote saying the ROU could have owned them all in no time at all and with no problem? Have you read Excession or just claiming to?

I have it on my desk now.

On a second examiniation four. that is two per pass..

I assume you mean "-it ought to be - devastating the fleet" Deavastating does not mean anything similar to "Owned them all in no time with no problem"

[GSV Use Psychology]

They did, they didn't have many, keep up junior.

They ALWAYS have warships leftover but nowhere near as many needed. Again, if you read Excession then you'd know this because the rock Pittance stores such ships when not needed.

Not during the Idiran war
The Culture hadn't build a warship for centuries, or similar, before the war.
Sure they keep some of them stacked away now.

[NecronLord]

Aww, that's cute. And you haven't combatted any of the reasons I have stated on why the Culture would own the SW universe.

I believe this is where I use the term, how you say, concession accepted?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Aside from a) for most of the Iridian war GCUs were used as fighting ships. Have you got a reference for this?

If you read the epilogue, you'd know that the Culture held back for over 20 years and never made an attempt to fight back since all they reall had were GCUs due to not having a war in ages. The GCUs were "gunned up" and still smacking Idiran craft up, but they are nothing compared to dedicated warships.
It took a whopping two minutes to repair that damage, and it's canon it could carry on for over 12 hours at that rate. Deal with it.

It actually vaped a lot more than two, it effectorised more. Read it again. And by the way, did you read how the Attitude Adjuster said ti was PLAYING with it and merely toying or did you conveniently miss out the quote saying the ROU could have owned them all in no time at all and with no problem? Have you read Excession or just claiming to?

I have it on my desk now.

On a second examiniation four. that is two per pass..

I assume you mean "-it ought to be - devastating the fleet" Deavastating does not mean anything similar to "Owned them all in no time with no problem"

And you think a Mind just thinks like that? I guess a Culture Mind must be the worst entity to ask on what a Culture warship is capable of.

Even if it couldn't do that, what makes you think a SW ISD would even be capable of seeing a Culture vessel in combat, letalone hitting it?

You're very good at pointing out the flaws the Culture has in its own universe and others, but not very good at debating exactly why SW could do jack shit against a Culture fleet.

[SHODAN]

They don't always destroy stars since it wouldn't serve any real purpose and doesn't fit with their philosophy. Same thing with planets. We don't see ISDs go around BDZ:ing stuff all the time either. The smaller ships might not be able to go star popping, but planets are a another story.

They never destroy stars or planets. Iridians were responsible for Twin Nova, and probably all the other planet/moon/star casualties listed in CPhlebas as well.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Aww, that's cute. And you haven't combatted any of the reasons I have stated on why the Culture would own the SW universe.

I believe this is where I use the term, how you say, concession accepted?

Good rebuttal, I feel I am learning something already.

[Admiral Valdemar]

They don't always destroy stars since it wouldn't serve any real purpose and doesn't fit with their philosophy. Same thing with planets. We don't see ISDs go around BDZ:ing stuff all the time either. The smaller ships might not be able to go star popping, but planets are a another story.

They never destroy stars or planets. Iridians were responsible for Twin Nova, and probably all the other planet/moon/star casualties listed in CPhlebas as well.

The Culture has this idea that blowing up the stars of your own space is generally counter productive. Would you nuke cities in your own country to get rid of a few enemy units?

[NecronLord]

Aww, that's cute. And you haven't combatted any of the reasons I have stated on why the Culture would own the SW universe.

I believe this is where I use the term, how you say, concession accepted?

Good rebuttal, I feel I am learning something already.

patter patter patter off on your own little tangent.

[GSV Use Psychology]

They don't always destroy stars since it wouldn't serve any real purpose and doesn't fit with their philosophy. Same thing with planets. We don't see ISDs go around BDZ:ing stuff all the time either. The smaller ships might not be able to go star popping, but planets are a another story.

They never destroy stars or planets. Iridians were responsible for Twin Nova, and probably all the other planet/moon/star casualties listed in CPhlebas as well.

I stand corrected. And somehow they also found the time to blast 14,000 Orbitals. Perhaps the Culture helped them with a few of those


Also I messed up the quote in my earlier reply. It was directed towards AV and not NecroLord.

[NecronLord]

They don't always destroy stars since it wouldn't serve any real purpose and doesn't fit with their philosophy. Same thing with planets. We don't see ISDs go around BDZ:ing stuff all the time either. The smaller ships might not be able to go star popping, but planets are a another story.

They never destroy stars or planets. Iridians were responsible for Twin Nova, and probably all the other planet/moon/star casualties listed in CPhlebas as well.

The Culture has this idea that blowing up the stars of your own space is generally counter productive. Would you nuke cities in your own country to get rid of a few enemy units?

oh puhhhllleeessseee the culture are space based, they have no space that they are not prepared to give up...

[Admiral Valdemar]

Good rebuttal, I feel I am learning something already.

patter patter patter off on your own little tangent.

Good.

So you have refuted:

-Culture having superior range.

-Culture having superior firepower.

-Culture having superior hyperdrives.

-Culture having superior technology base.

Oh wait, you haven't! Perhaps when you can show me a Cheese Wedge even approaching Culture combat speeds/range/power/intelligence, then I may actually care an iota for your posts which so far have only been to deride that of the author's universe in question in relation to others.

[NecronLord]

Even if it couldn't do that, what makes you think a SW ISD would even be capable of seeing a Culture vessel in combat, letalone hitting it?

And my rant about how over rated they are said that where?

You're very good at pointing out the flaws the Culture has in its own universe and others, but not very good at debating exactly why SW could do jack shit against a Culture fleet.

see above

[Admiral Valdemar]

They never destroy stars or planets. Iridians were responsible for Twin Nova, and probably all the other planet/moon/star casualties listed in CPhlebas as well.

The Culture has this idea that blowing up the stars of your own space is generally counter productive. Would you nuke cities in your own country to get rid of a few enemy units?

oh puhhhllleeessseee the culture are space based, they have no space that they are not prepared to give up...

Possibly, but the idea was to keep themselves from using excessive force, since the Idirans were getting smacked like bitches at that point, the battle of Arm-One-Six was the last needed push against them to make them fall. They had no need to go nuking stars for no reason.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Even if it couldn't do that, what makes you think a SW ISD would even be capable of seeing a Culture vessel in combat, letalone hitting it?

And my rant about how over rated they are said that where?

You're very good at pointing out the flaws the Culture has in its own universe and others, but not very good at debating exactly why SW could do jack shit against a Culture fleet.

see above

So in other words you are simply here to make your views known on a sci-fi race that isn't SW and are not actually debating as one might imagine in a thread such as this.

Hear that?

That is the sound of me not caring for your views.

[NecronLord]

So you have refuted:

-Culture having superior range.

In what way?

-Culture having superior firepower.

Tentatively I'd say they do

-Culture having superior hyperdrives.

100,000C

-Culture having superior technology base.

Communications and FTL

Oh wait, you haven't! Perhaps when you can show me a Cheese Wedge even approaching Culture combat speeds/range/power/intelligence, then I may actually care an iota for your posts which so far have only been to deride that of the author's universe in question in relation to others.

Intelligence is easy enough. May I present that excersise in mental accuracy the Attitude Adjuster. Normally no though.

[Admiral Valdemar]

So you have refuted:

-Culture having superior range.

In what way?

-Culture having superior firepower.

Tentatively I'd say they do

-Culture having superior hyperdrives.

100,000C

-Culture having superior technology base.

Communications and FTL

Oh wait, you haven't! Perhaps when you can show me a Cheese Wedge even approaching Culture combat speeds/range/power/intelligence, then I may actually care an iota for your posts which so far have only been to deride that of the author's universe in question in relation to others.

Intelligence is easy enough. May I present that excersise in mental accuracy the Attitude Adjuster. Normally no though.

In the end SW has comms and logistical speed going for it.

They can at least run away when they find out that they can't hit what they can't see at least. Again, comms is really an unknown, I see no reason why it should be extremely slow given that the Interesting Times gang was organising a nice big welcome party at Esperi for the Affront.