Species 8472 vs. the Yuzang Vong

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-07 04:47am

Who would win?

I know next to nothing about either, only that people taut each as being the "uber d00ds" of their respective universes.

Both use the crappy "bio-technology" gimmick (if I'm not mistaken), so they should be an even match, right?

Indicentally, the whole thing with the Vong is sort of overshadowed by the prequel films isn't it? Since we know that the SW galaxy knows about at least two other neighboring galaxies as early as AOTC... and for all we know they've even mapped all of those stars!

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-12-07 05:13am

The Vong don't go into a full-fledged retreat when they take 30-40 losses.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-07 05:32am

Kurgan:The empire didnt even map all of its own galaxy (the unknown regions).

On the thead subject - it comes down to whether of not the Vong can attack 8472 at home, if they can then I would give it to the Vong otherwise its to hard to call(we dont really know 8472's numbers, ship production rate or their ability to adapt to new enemies).

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-12-07 06:26am

Well question acutal

Darkling! How fast and many shots do 8472 Ships Fire? If its singular big shots as is often the case the 8472 crowd is in serious trouble considering Dovinal Basel Shielding

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-07 07:01am

Mr Bean: Well thats sort of my point, we dont really know much about how 8472's weapons work nor do we know there numbers - for example several bioships could fire their weapons at one Vong capship if 8472 have the numbers to do that in multiple battles.

After reading SbS however the Vong just seem was weak indeed - while it wont affect their fight against 8472 the fact that they need visual sensors and Vong operators to use their "shields" is a joke, their numbers at first arent very large (although since the NR seems to have <20,000 capships it didnt cause them problems especially since the NR never went on the offensive) and so could give 8472 an edge but without more info n 8472 I would probably say draw, although if 8472 used a few pk groups they may be able to take out a worldship or two.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-12-07 07:10am

although if 8472 used a few pk groups they may be able to take out a worldship or two.

Yes but Dovinal Basels on Worldships are signifaclty bigger and numorus, one of the few advantages of using "operators" for the shields is the fact by FEW you need 7+ to occupy enough of the Worldships Dovinal's to realy make an impact

How do you see H2H and other boarding actions faring?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-12-07 07:15am

If it goes into hand-to-hand combat, the Vong will literally slice the S8's to ribbons.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-12-07 07:16am

I don't know about that, these guys ripped into the hull of Crapgere didn't they?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-12-07 07:18am

Amphistaffs will slice right through them. They have the range.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2002-12-07 10:25am

Hmm, slightly modified Voxyn...to hunt S8472

Now thats evil.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-12-07 03:12pm

IG-88E wrote:Amphistaffs will slice right through them. They have the range.

Not to mention they block lightsabres.

Zaku-chan · Post by **Zaku-chan** » 2002-12-07 03:26pm

IG-88E wrote:Amphistaffs will slice right through them. They have the range.

They slice through ANYTHING when they're in use, don't they?

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-12-07 04:19pm

Almost anything. otehr Amphistaffs, Vonduun Crab Armor, and Lightsabers being the htings I can remember that have stopped them.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-12-07 05:30pm

Darkling wrote:Kurgan:The empire didnt even map all of its own galaxy (the unknown regions).

On the thead subject - it comes down to whether of not the Vong can attack 8472 at home, if they can then I would give it to the Vong otherwise its to hard to call(we dont really know 8472's numbers, ship production rate or their ability to adapt to new enemies).

Your dishonesty is astounding. The NJO novels' and Chronology's maps are erroneous--both common sense (the speed of the SW FTL drives) and CANON from Attack of the Clones verifies the whole of the galactic disk and even some neighboring satellite galaxies and clusters have been studied and mapped (dialogue from Jedi Temple plus map view).

The whole of the galactic disk and multiple neighboring clusters and satellite galaxies are within the civilized galaxy. For a continuity fix and likely explanation for the erronous NJO novelisations' and Essential Chronology's map, as well as speculation and a fix for what the Unknown Regions are, see the Technical Commentaries--I believe it is in the Astrophysical Concerns page.[/quote]

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-07 06:37pm

Illuminatus Primus:

You just jump straight to name calling and hair pulling don't you?

I'm not being dishonest, the unknown regions are exactly that yes this would seem to conflict with AOTC but im sure it can resolved somehow (does the map show all the galaxy? maybe the Jedi have better maps, prehaps they have mapped tyhem but not visited so the actual maps dont show them - the Jedi choose to show them all etc).
I agree the idea of the unknown regions contradicts common sense but so do alot of other things about SW and sci-fi in general.

If it can't be resolved the EU has some problems since it puts the Chiss (and thus Thrawn etc) in problem land, we also know the Ssi-Rukk inhabit another unexplored region (a satellite galaxy).

If an explanantion already exists and you know of it lets hear it then.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-12-07 06:55pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Your dishonesty is astounding. The NJO novels' and Chronology's maps are erroneous--both common sense (the speed of the SW FTL drives) and CANON from Attack of the Clones verifies the whole of the galactic disk and even some neighboring satellite galaxies and clusters have been studied and mapped (dialogue from Jedi Temple plus map view).

If they've been mapped why the hell are they still being called The Unknown Regions? Why in Starfighter of Adumar do we hear the classic Wedge Antilles Quote:
"If you continue mapping the Unkown Regions your going to have to call them something else." some 12-13 years after ANH.
Why during the time of the Old Republic did the Outbound Flight Project, designed to go to other galaxies to look for Jedi, take a shakedown cruise in The Unkown Regions.

The only people who have mapped the Unknown Regions are the people who were under Thrawns command at the Hand Of Thrawn (a neutral party) and , presumably, the beings that live there (none of which have shared their info with a current civilisation)

"Mapped" may imply that people have just marked down the positions of stars, but "studied" implies that there have been expedoitions to the systems, which there clearly haven't been.

ALso, just because they've got the speed to go there doesn't mean they want to. Would you go into a completely unknown place just because you can, even though you have adeqaute resources already? I think not.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-07 08:57pm

To add to that... there's the prescense of the INTERgalactic Banking Clan.. (note: I don't think the movie itself says they're intergalactic, but the other near canon does, like the novels/screenplays/etc).

If they have commerce/trade and financial relations with the other galaxies, there's a good chance they know a something about them, other than that they simply exist.

Perhaps, by the time of the Empire, that information was destroyed, lost, or suppressed (by the government)? Still, it seems odd, if the Banking Clan regularly does business with them (or even resides itself outside the main galaxy of the Republic).

Is the Empire bigger or smaller than the Republic in terms of territory? Oh well, wait for Episode III.

Sorry to get off on a tangent, but I was hoping to answer that objection above a little better. ; )

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2002-12-08 11:54pm

I know the Vong appear in NJO, but when are S8472.. what episode(s)?

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-08 11:55pm

Kurgan wrote:I know the Vong appear in NJO, but when are S8472.. what episode(s)?

Scorpion Part I and II and others

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-12-09 12:02am

Such foolishness. Suddenly the Starfighters of Adumar(sp) is the highest canon? No. The Movies are. The movies include more than one Galaxy being fully mapped. Then what are the Unknown Regions? Perhaps the clusters of stars around this region of space, like those that orbit the Milky Way. Perhaps another satellite Galaxy. But the whole idea of the Unknown Regions must be made to fit the movies.. never the other way around.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-12-09 08:16am

LA says that Movies are Cannon 1st and foremost, Books are also cannon but not to the point where they override the Movies. Therefore thX-Wing SFA is invalidated.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-12-09 08:35am

2000AD wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: Your dishonesty is astounding. The NJO novels' and Chronology's maps are erroneous--both common sense (the speed of the SW FTL drives) and CANON from Attack of the Clones verifies the whole of the galactic disk and even some neighboring satellite galaxies and clusters have been studied and mapped (dialogue from Jedi Temple plus map view).
If they've been mapped why the hell are they still being called The Unknown Regions? Why in Starfighter of Adumar do we hear the classic Wedge Antilles Quote:
"If you continue mapping the Unkown Regions your going to have to call them something else." some 12-13 years after ANH.
Why during the time of the Old Republic did the Outbound Flight Project, designed to go to other galaxies to look for Jedi, take a shakedown cruise in The Unkown Regions.

The only people who have mapped the Unknown Regions are the people who were under Thrawns command at the Hand Of Thrawn (a neutral party) and , presumably, the beings that live there (none of which have shared their info with a current civilisation)

"Mapped" may imply that people have just marked down the positions of stars, but "studied" implies that there have been expedoitions to the systems, which there clearly haven't been.

ALso, just because they've got the speed to go there doesn't mean they want to. Would you go into a completely unknown place just because you can, even though you have adeqaute resources already? I think not.

Actually there are a few plausible reasons for this discrepancy.

1) The Jedi attempted to destroy/hide as much of the archival information as they could to cripple the Empire from within when the revolution began.

2) The Empire actively suppressed this information, deeming it "not relevant" for the general public and the majority of its officers.

Specialist · Post by **Specialist** » 2002-12-10 09:07am

Kurgan wrote:I know the Vong appear in NJO, but when are S8472.. what episode(s)?

NJO? Is this some kind of book?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-10 09:20am

New Jedi Order - a set of books set 25 years after Star Wars IV which deals with an alien race showing up and.... well not doing pleasant things.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2002-12-10 09:43am

All and all being really unpolite and rude i just say